# Neil Degrasse Tyson accused of assaulting women **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 1, 2018, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400 "2018-12-01T16:14:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/81 "2018-12-06T17:46:01Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > A guy can go to a party and make an ass of himself. Each new “accusation” is more ridiculous than the last. How dare these women speak publicly about their own experiences? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/82 "2018-12-06T18:00:23Z")
Why is it important that a drunk guy went up to a woman at a party and made an ass of himself? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/83 "2018-12-06T18:05:15Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > Why is it important that a drunk guy went up to a woman at a party and made an ass of himself? I suppose if you don’t think sexual harassment is an important issue causing a lot of harm, you might not think a single incident of such harassment is important. But many of us believe that it’s harmful to society in general (and especially girls and women) that sexual harassment is prevalent and tolerated in many circumstances, and thus it’s important to hold prominent harassers to account publicly for their harassment. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/84 "2018-12-06T18:07:52Z")
How is it sexual harassment to hit on a woman at a party? ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/85 "2018-12-06T18:17:21Z")
I should say I believe that Ashley Watson’s story is worthy of investigation. I take back saying each accusation is more ridiculous than the last given her story. I wrote this statement while I was in the throes of overwhelming disbelief that anyone takes the latest “accusation” seriously. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/86 "2018-12-06T18:28:47Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > How is it sexual harassment to hit on a woman at a party? If it’s a work-related party, and the harasser is someone with a considerable power differential (even if they work for a related organization and not the exact same one), then they have a moral (and possibly legal, though IANAL) responsibility to not violate professional boundaries. Not the end of the world. But well worth criticizing, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/87 "2018-12-06T18:47:23Z")
She was not at this party as part of her job. His behavior was nothing laudable but not something that indicates a “pattern”. It indicates that Tyson, like billions of other men, has said unattractive things to a disinterested woman at a party. This is not newsworthy. It’s bizarre to me that anyone would care enough to criticize him other than his friends, co-workers, and family. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/88 "2018-12-06T19:00:39Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > She was not at this party as part of her job. His behavior was nothing laudable but not something that indicates a “pattern”. It indicates that Tyson, like billions of other men, has said unattractive things to a disinterested woman at a party. This is not newsworthy. It’s bizarre to me that anyone would care enough to criticize him other than his friends, co-workers, and family. Many people don’t consider this behavior sexual harassment. Apparently you’re in that category. You’re allowed that opinion, but many of us feel that you are wrong, and such behavior is indeed harmful due to the extreme power differential, and thus worth criticizing. Such behavior shows, IMO, some level of unconscious misogyny and disrespect for women, which is a serious problem in our society. If some women feel unwelcome at parties and other places due to this kind of behavior, then they might have a lower chance at advancement and other professional concerns, as well as a greater likelihood of discouraging other women to get into scientific fields. Doesn’t mean Tyson ought to be thrown in jail, but that’s well worth criticizing, IMO. You’re allowed to have a different opinion. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/89 "2018-12-06T19:02:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If it’s a work-related party, and the harasser is someone with a considerable power differential (even if they work for a related organization and not the exact same one), then they have a moral ( **and possibly legal** , though IANAL) responsibility to not violate professional boundaries. > > Not the end of the world. But well worth criticizing, IMO. I don’t think it’s yet _illegal_ to proposition a co-worker, subordinate or not. While we’re throwing out opinions … I don’t think either of the “party” accusations should amount to much from the perspective of someone making a decision about whether to air _Cosmos_ next March. The reason I feel that way is that for right or wrong, the collective general public outside of this message board would summarily shrug off those actions – IOW, there’s be no hue and cry and ratings would be unlikely to be affected. For right or wrong, that’s the calculus taking place. The Ashley Watson accusation is more problematic, but maybe not by a whole lot. Tyson, very charitably, comes off as a weak-minded old fool and a willing (if thwarted) adulterer. I can see a lot of the public, however, chalking it up as making an off-the-clock pass (even if decidedly unwanted). Tyson didn’t go about it like, say, Matt Lauer – Tyson was not explicit that her continued employment (either on _Cosmos_ or in the industry altogether) is contingent on Watson’s acquiescence. He did not physically force himself upon Watson, which for a lot of the public (again, for right or wrong) is where a critical line is crossed. Amet’s accusation has had a weak grip on the public’s consciousness because of the time passage and the previous lack of traction in the various media. A pretty big swath of the public just can’t get behind a 30-year-old accusation without corroboration. Off this board, a lot of people will chalk it up to “_they were both there experiencing the same event, but with different memories and takeaways of that event._” – IOW, neither party is actively lying. The real issue for Fox, IMHO, is not that accusations in general exist, but its that four of them exist. Any one of these alone just gets passed over. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/90 "2018-12-06T19:06:48Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Here’s some more detail: > > [snip] > > It wasn’t until 2014, however, that Amet (a) blogged about the alleged rape, and (b) filed a police report. This is also covered in the link above (Huffington Post, if that means anything). Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/91 "2018-12-06T19:24:55Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Here’s some more detail: Allegedly(?), [Tchiya Amet confronted Tyson](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/neil-degrasse-tyson-rape-accuser_us_5c057f3ae4b0cd916faed7f8) about the 1984 alleged rape at a 2010 panel the physicist was hosting. > > It wasn’t until 2014, however, that Amet (a) blogged about the alleged rape, and (b) filed a police report. This is also covered in the link above (Huffington Post, if that means anything). If there was any truth to that, it would have been news at the time, and other people who were there would remember it. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/92 "2018-12-06T19:39:32Z")
I want to point out the more I read, the less convinced I am that Tyson was unaware of any power dynamics in his activities. He seems to be using it to his advantage, and hiding behind “I’m such a big nerd”. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/93 "2018-12-06T19:41:31Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > If there was any truth to that, it would have been news at the time, and other people who were there would remember it. From the same link: > [@](#): > > In a statement to HuffPost on Monday, WGBH, a producer of PBS programs including “NOVA scienceNow,” acknowledged the 2010 confrontation in San Francisco: > > _Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson is not contracted with WGBH, and has not hosted a program for “NOVA” since 2011, when he hosted the miniseries “NOVA ScienceNOW.” We are aware of an allegation made by an audience member at a 2010 public event regarding an alleged incident some years earlier, but there was not sufficient information available then for follow up. We recognize the seriousness of these matters, and will continue to monitor them._ ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/94 "2018-12-06T23:03:52Z")
This whole NOVA thing is confusing. It was being filmed but no evidence of that film exists and the people who were allegedly there don’t remember it? I call BS on that. (Yeah, I know that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.) ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/95 "2018-12-07T02:52:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Many people don’t consider this behavior sexual harassment. Apparently you’re in that category. You’re allowed that opinion, but many of us feel that you are wrong, and such behavior is indeed harmful due to the extreme power differential, and thus worth criticizing. Such behavior shows, IMO, some level of unconscious misogyny and disrespect for women, which is a serious problem in our society. If some women feel unwelcome at parties and other places due to this kind of behavior, then they might have a lower chance at advancement and other professional concerns, as well as a greater likelihood of discouraging other women to get into scientific fields. > > Doesn’t mean Tyson ought to be thrown in jail, but that’s well worth criticizing, IMO. You’re allowed to have a different opinion. I don’t consider it sexual harassment because it is not according to every definition I’ve been provided by multiple workplace training programs. There was no power differential in that circumstance. He had no power over her because she was not professionally dependent upon him. She was apparently able to deny him a speaking engagement several years later. I don’t know why crudely propositioning a woman represents misogyny. I guess it could be a manifestation of his hatred and disrespect toward women in general or could be that he’s spent a lifetime behaving this way and generally getting what he sees as a positive response. When these accusations start to fly, it seems like almost any negative sexual interaction the accused had with any woman becomes “evidence” and worthy of publication. It’s a problem because people are going to be left unable to differentiate between sexual harassment, a serious workplace issue that must be addressed and being a turd, a normal part every human’s repertoire of behavior. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/96 "2018-12-07T13:00:12Z")
“Clearly she misunderstood me when I said ‘I wanted to probe Uranus’”. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/97 "2018-12-09T00:09:59Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > I don’t consider it sexual harassment because it is not according to every definition I’ve been provided by multiple workplace training programs. > > There was no power differential in that circumstance. He had no power over her because she was not professionally dependent upon him. She was apparently able to deny him a speaking engagement several years later. My sexual harassment training does not indicate a need for a power imbalance for there to be harassment. Harassment is any unwanted attention, even just once (no pattern required). It can happen between anyone. Are you saying that an employee repeatedly propositioning their boss wouldn’t be harassment? That me groping my coworker (at the same job status) wouldn’t be harassment? Of my coworker groping me wouldn’t be harassment? > [@](#): > > I don’t know why crudely propositioning a woman represents misogyny. I guess it could be a manifestation of his hatred and disrespect toward women in general or could be that he’s spent a lifetime behaving this way and generally getting what he sees as a positive response. Not mutually exclusive positions. > [@](#): > > When these accusations start to fly, it seems like almost any negative sexual interaction the accused had with any woman becomes “evidence” and worthy of publication. It’s a problem because people are going to be left unable to differentiate between sexual harassment, a serious workplace issue that must be addressed and being a turd, a normal part every human’s repertoire of behavior. I think the point is that harassment is so ingrained in our culture that some folks don’t even think it’s being a turd. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/98 "2018-12-09T00:13:08Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > [Here is his statement](https://www.facebook.com/notes/neil-degrasse-tyson/on-being-accused/10156870826326613/). > > I’m gonna stick with “goddammit,” not feeling qualified to make other judgments at this point. I am siding him him, after that. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/99 "2018-12-09T17:17:34Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > I don’t think it’s yet _illegal_ to proposition a co-worker, subordinate or not. Not illegal, but the manner could be grounds for a civil suit, which is also legal action. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/100 "2018-12-09T17:35:40Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Harassment is any unwanted attention, even just once (no pattern required). It can happen between anyone. I doubt the definition of “harassment” _as applied_ is quite this loosely. Or else any noticing of anything ever would be realistically actionable: “_I couldn’t help but notice that you’ve got a cast on your wrist … are you OK? Need to get off of that data entry assignment?_” “_I didn’t ask for that attention … off to HR!_” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400.md?page=6)