# Neil Gaiman accused of being serial sexual abuser **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 5, 2024, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781 "2024-07-05T19:48:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/181 "2025-01-13T19:22:47Z")
> [@xtenkfarpl](#): > > Apparently was a good friend of Terry P, who seemed to be a very decent liberal and perceptive fellow, and might have been expected to pick up on anything off-colour? They quote other writers who knew he was not monogamous but assumed his sexual encounters were always consensual. There were several fans literally throwing themselves at him all the time. Terry P, of course, can no longer comment. FWIW, the majority of his sexual encounters probably were consensual but anything less than true consent for every single one is not acceptable. > [@xtenkfarpl](#): > > I’m suspecting a smear campaign? If so, it’s one of the most low key smear campaigns imaginable. A comparison to the Bill Cosby situation was mentioned upthread, and that seems to be a good analogue. Several independent and similar stories over the course of several years. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/182 "2025-01-13T19:29:26Z")
> [@xtenkfarpl](#): > > Apparently was a good friend of Terry P, who seemed to be a very decent liberal and perceptive fellow, and might have been expected to pick up on anything off-colour? The evidence seems to be considerable. And there is some stuff in his work; though I’d taken it for ‘this is a horror writer, of course there are going to be horrors.’ I don’t ordinarily suspect authors of murder mysteries to have been going around committing murders. But what I wonder is if Pratchett knew any of this. If not, then how not? And if so – Terry Pratchett?!! complicit with this shit?!? Maybe Pratchett believed the “consensual” story? Maybe this was the source of some of his anger? I don’t know whether they remained close as time went on. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/183 "2025-01-13T19:30:07Z")
I don’t think it’s necessarily the case that Terry Pratchett would or should have known anything about what was happening; whilst I’m sure there are probably some Brits who like to discuss their sex lives with their friends, there are a lot who simply don’t. Not that I’m suggesting Gaiman had a normal sex life, just that _not ever talking about it at all_ wouldn’t necessarily raise anyone’s eyebrows; nobody would ever think “he never talks about it - _he must be hiding something_” ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/184 "2025-01-13T19:48:17Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Maybe Pratchett believed the “consensual” story? > [@Mangetout](#): > > Not that I’m suggesting Gaiman had a normal sex life, just that _not ever talking about it at all_ wouldn’t necessarily raise anyone’s eyebrows; nobody would ever think “he never talks about it - _he must be hiding something_” As above it is quite likely most or much of it was consensual. Gaiman apparently has had a loose reputation for decades, he was quite famous and apparently charismatic and it was no secret his second marriage was an open one (I knew that and I never met the guy). I doubt many of his friends were unaware of him catting around, but possibly many were unaware that this seemingly charming, sensitive man was occasionally (or more than occasionally) willing to cross the line into manipulation and abuse. I mean, I sure hope they were unaware. Pratchett died in 2015, this story only came out last year. It’s pretty hard to say just how much he or anyone else could have been reasonably expected to know. Maybe he was a blinkered idiot who ignored signs he shouldn’t have or maybe he just never saw them. ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/185 "2025-01-13T19:49:25Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > It’s a classic conundrum to be sure, but, absent that knowledge, it’s not like those works are inherently tied to all the actions of the person who created them. History is littered with artists who created masterpieces yet were not particularly good people otherwise. When this topic comes up I mention another great Science Fiction author, Isaac Asimov, and tell of how I calmly disposed of my Asimov collection in a black garbage bag for the trash collector to pick up when his abhorrent treatment of women came to light several years ago. This act triggers some people, who liken it to book burning, but they were my property and this was my reaction to his disgusting behavior. ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/186 "2025-01-13T19:53:06Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Not that I’m suggesting Gaiman had a normal sex life, Then again, what is a ‘normal’ sex life? Picasso apparently had many sexual experiences in his life. Were they all consensual? I can’t say. Are we going to demonize him too? I have not read that original article, because I refuse to do the subscription bullshit. But perhaps I may have to make an exception in this case and be sure to cancel. Unless anyone can find a non-paywalled version? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/187 "2025-01-13T20:01:19Z")
That’s not really what I was talking about. What I mean is that, from the outside perspective of a friend, there may be no readily discernible difference between ‘doesn’t talk about sex life’ and ‘doesn’t talk about committing sexual abuses’. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/188 "2025-01-13T20:10:14Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Pratchett died in 2015, this story only came out last year. Heck, the main story in the article occurred post-2015. It starts with the victim meeting Palmer in 2000. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/189 "2025-01-13T20:19:49Z")
> [@xtenkfarpl](#): > > Are we going to demonize him too? “going to”? You must be unaware of the protests and articles highlighting his treatment of women recently. ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/190 "2025-01-13T20:21:27Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > That’s not really what I was talking about. What I mean is that, from the outside perspective of a friend, there may be no readily discernible difference between ‘doesn’t talk about sex life’ and ‘doesn’t talk about committing sexual abuses’. We are in danger of getting off topic here, but you are quite right. I used to play in a band with a few guys and we were all very good friends. The lead singer was in a relationship with a woman who had teenage daughters. But a few years later it came out that he had been molesting one of her daughters for a while. The rest of us had no idea this was happening. He seemed like a decent fellow, we had no idea anything like that was going on. People are strange… to quote Jim… ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/191 "2025-01-13T20:23:44Z")
> [@xtenkfarpl](#): > > I have not read that original article, because I refuse to do the subscription bullshit. I’m not seeing a subscription requirement, possibly because I’ve got most javascript blocked; though on most subscription sites what that gets me is a demand to turn it back on. I haven’t read the whole article, but I’ve read enough of it to be fairly sure that I can (and might) read the rest. > [@Mangetout](#): > > from the outside perspective of a friend, there may be no readily discernible difference between ‘doesn’t talk about sex life’ and ‘doesn’t talk about committing sexual abuses’. That’s what I’m hoping. I certainly wouldn’t have expected Pratchett to have a public fit, or even quietly cut Gaiman out of his life, over an open marriage or stories, possibly only secondhand stories, of an unusually active (but consensual) sex life. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/192 "2025-01-13T20:25:21Z")
> [@xtenkfarpl](#): > > How authoritative is this anyway? I can’t say I’ve ever noticed anything particularly squicky in his work. Apparently was a good friend of Terry P, who seemed to be a very decent liberal and perceptive fellow, and might have been expected to pick up on anything off-colour? Piers Anthony gets called out very often because some people find his work squicky, but I don’t think anyone’s ever come up with examples of him being manipulative or abusive in real life. As I like to tell my mother, just because Stephen King writes those stories doesn’t mean he’s a sick, sick man. I don’t know if someone’s fiction is always a good way to judge him as a person. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/193 "2025-01-13T20:27:27Z")
> [@xtenkfarpl](#): > > Picasso apparently had many sexual experiences in his life. > Were they all consensual? I can’t say. > Are we going to demonize him too? If Picasso was a serial rapist then yeah, he’d be demonized. We aren’t talking here about someone who did something mildly inappropriate once at a bar, we’re talking about acts that **if true as reported** would merit Gaiman a prison sentence. Of course, Pablo is rather extremely dead, so it’d be kinda pointless to dig him up and shun him corpse. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/194 "2025-01-13T20:48:31Z")
I can’t read the Vulture article either but here’s a Mary Sue summary. > **[Neil Gaiman accused of sexual assault in detailed new report | The Mary Sue](https://www.themarysue.com/neil-gaiman-accused-of-sexual-assault-in-detailed-new-report/)** > > Neil Gaiman refutes the allegations ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/195 "2025-01-13T21:10:27Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I don’t know if someone’s fiction is always a good way to judge him as a person. While what gets acted on is bound to be more important than what’s just written as fiction – it seems to me there’s a difference between underlying attitudes seeping through in the writing, and writing about something one disapproves of in practice. Stephen King’s writing horror, as near as I can tell (I’m not into that much horror and haven’t read him), in a fashion that assumes it’s horrific. I thought that’s what Gaiman was doing but maybe not, sometimes it’s hard to tell – or maybe he knew he was being horrific and did it anyway. Anthony’s doing something else altogether; he writes as if his odd attitudes are or ought to be entirely normal. – I stopped reading him quite a while ago and should probably not sidetrack into Anthony further, especially not going off memories of a small part of his work read years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/196 "2025-01-13T21:45:58Z")
I wouldn’t expect to see news stories about Piers Anthony doing horrible things, for the simple reason that if it were to come out, it wouldn’t be news. It’d be dog-bites-man: Anthony not only wrote about horrible things; he wrote about them as admirable things that we should accept as normal from heroic characters. Gaiman’s different. He wrote about horrible things, too, but whenever anyone did horrible things in his books, it was a clear mark that that character was a villain, and that the heroes who were fighting against them were doing as they ought. Which makes the accusations against him much more shocking than they would be against someone like Anthony. Unfortunately, “shocking” doesn’t mean “untrue”. It looks like it might just mean that Gaiman was good at hiding his real self. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/197 "2025-01-13T21:52:27Z")
> [@xtenkfarpl](#): > > I can’t say I’ve ever noticed anything particularly squicky in his work. Apparently was a good friend of Terry P, who seemed to be a very decent liberal and perceptive fellow, and might have been expected to pick up on anything off-colour? > > I’m suspecting a smear campaign? At least until I see more evidence? Yeah. Like perhaps an indictment at least? Calling him a “rapist” when he hasnt even been arrested sounds pretty bogus. > [@Tamerlane](#): > > As above it is quite likely most or much of it was consensual. Yep. Sure seducing someone who was talked into something they might not do by a celebrity is creepy. But it is not rape. As long as consent was given. ---
**Author:** ![mozchron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mozchron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mozchron)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/198 "2025-01-13T22:03:33Z")
Off topic, but I loved Piers Anthony as a pre-teen and teenager. Was a member of the 'Hi Piers" fan club and everything Now as a 50 _mumble mumble_ adult, I can’t believe Anthony hasn’t been arrested yet. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/199 "2025-01-13T22:11:10Z")
> [@mozchron](#): > > Off topic, but I loved Piers Anthony as a pre-teen and teenager. Was a member of the 'Hi Piers" fan club and everything I liked his first few Xanth books. Have you ever read some of Anne Rices A. N. Roquelaure books? Creepy and skeevy as all fuck. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/200 "2025-01-13T22:11:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yeah. Like perhaps an indictment at least? Calling him a “rapist” when he hasnt even been arrested sounds pretty bogus. There’s a difference between drawing a conclusion based on the number and mutual support of the allegations vs legal proof - granted. BUT, we, as uninvolved in the direct legal process aren’t held to the standards of said legal proof. The number, the breadth, and similarities in the accusations are enough to make personal conclusions. After all, none of us are likely to be involved in any civil or criminal allegations. All we can do is look at what we know so far and choose whether or not to support their future works with our money, which is all I see in-thread so far. Based on what I’ve seen so far, I’ll probably watch the conclusion of Good Omens, more because of wanting to see what the actors do, rather than support his role in the story. And I’ll probably feel some guilt. And I’m not buying anything new from him until there’s a LOT more evidence against his fault or evidence for actual contrition. I probably won’t throw away the copies of his books I own however. Since I’m more of a fan of the characters than the authors as it were, and I find the characters blameable only for their actions (or lack thereof). Of course, I might hesitate to read dead-tree versions in _public_ going forward… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781.md?page=11)