# Neil Gaiman accused of being serial sexual abuser **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 5, 2024, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781 "2024-07-05T19:48:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/461 "2025-02-04T14:24:35Z")
> [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > I mean that asking people to donate time or money by their their own choice is not immoral. If someone else feels the money is being spent poorly they are welcome to have that opinion but that doesn’t make the action of asking for donations immoral. Okay, that does make your meaning perfectly clear. It does lead to other questions- Why or why not was her asking for donations immoral? I would argue that there are certian cases where asking for or donating money is immoral. OTTOMH, the plane crash here in Philly was revealed to be a Shriner’s hospital program to fly a child in from Mexico, give her life saving surgery, and then fly her back home. Obviously, this is a very moral thing to solicit donations for, or to donate money to. There have been plenty of people running for political office who I disagreed strongly with. I would still call the overwhelming majority of them moral, and their supoorter as well Without getting into details, some politicians have run on obviously immoral platforms. People who supported them, donated to their cause and voted for them did so of their own free will. It was still wrong. OTTOMH, the last time Frank Rizzo ran for Mayor here in Philadelphia, one of his official positions was to ‘keep Philly white’. Yeah, I would call that immoral. ---
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/462 "2025-02-04T14:27:44Z")
It was apparently a kickstarter of some kind but I think we are moving into hijack territory. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/463 "2025-02-04T14:30:07Z")
> [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > From all the reports Gaiman only attacked his victims when she wasn’t around Other than “God, I wish it were the good old days where we could both fuck you”, you mean… > [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > they did not tell her what was happening At least 14 of them before Scarlett told her, according to the report. > [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > Scarlett then goes on to assume her motivations were to keep her available for Gaiman, but we don’t know that. So we can believe that she found the place, even though that comes from Scarlett, but not why, even though that also came from Scarlett? > [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > It appears to me that she did not have the financial means or power to fully protect her. She had the means to fly all over the world. She just had the means to fly from Boston to LA for an awards show. Cries of penury ring a bit hollow when someone is globetrotting. ---
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/464 "2025-02-04T14:32:36Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > So we can believe that she found the place, even though that comes from Scarlett, but not why, even though that also came from Scarlett Because one can be proven objectively, the other can’t. From what I recall Gaiman’s crude comment did not happen in Palmers presence. ---
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/465 "2025-02-04T14:34:21Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > She had the means to fly all over the world. She just had the means to fly from Boston to LA for an awards show. Cries of penury ring a bit hollow when someone is globetrotting. It’s possible Gaiman allowed money for that but did not want to pay the babysitter. Again, it’s not clear how much money Palmer had on her own. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/466 "2025-02-04T14:46:10Z")
Yeah, we probably are. I remain curious as to what makes something ‘wrong’ or ‘immoral’ rather than just ‘something you disagree with’. > [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > I mean that asking people to donate time or money by their their own choice is not immoral. I would disagree with this general statement. If David Duke decides to run for office again and asks for volunteers and donations, how is that not an immoral request? How are the people volunteering an donating not doing something wrong? Hypothetically, if Neil Gaiman ended up bankrupt and homeless and started asking for donations and volunteers to help defend him from yet more civil cases and criminal charges- that would be immoral wouldn’t it? Wouldn’t the people donating an volunteering be doing something wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/467 "2025-02-04T14:51:39Z")
I am not talking about whether the cause is moral. I am considering how the funds are spent in accordance with what was outlined in the kickstarter. If people know what they are paying for someone else can think it’s a bad deal but the person making the donation gets to decide for themself if they are happy with it. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/468 "2025-02-04T14:54:10Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I think it has more to do with relative obscurity. Agreed. I have read a fair amount of Gaiman and have enjoyed his work. I have until this thread never heard of Palmer or Dresden Dolls, and don’t care. People who consume her work can decide if she aided and abetted or has her own sins that make consuming her work uncomfortable for them. Maybe somewhere other than here? I still have to decide if I will watch or read anything else he is associated with or give a complete pass going forward. I’m leaning to passing on it. The joy is gone knowing what I now know. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/469 "2025-02-04T14:56:04Z")
Enough to fly all over the world _before_ Gaiman. I think you’re confused, here. _Scarlett_ was the one living rough on a beach. _Amanda_ was the one living in her own separate house on Auckland’s Millionaire Island. Cries of poverty _now_ are ringing a bit hollow and frankly portraying her as some sort of economic hostage is insulting to the _actual_ economic hostages (Scarlett & Caroline, for instance) in this story. ---
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/470 "2025-02-04T14:59:09Z")
After the divorce she moved in with her parents. She does not have nearly the kind of inexhaustable wealth that Gaiman does. Unless you can provide bank statements we simply don’t know who controlled how much money and when. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/471 "2025-02-04T15:03:44Z")
> [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > After the divorce she moved in with her parents. Flew from NZ to Boston to move in with her parents. > [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > She does not have nearly the kind of inexhaustable wealth that Gaiman does. No-one thinks she does (not that I think _his_ is inexhaustible. $18 million isn’t really FU money in my book.) That’s not the same as penury. > [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > Unless you can provide bank statements we simply don’t know who controlled how much money and when. Good thing _my_ arguments aren’t based on her supposed poverty, then. Yours are. You bring the receipts. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/472 "2025-02-04T15:05:02Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > People who consume her work can decide if she aided and abetted or has her own sins that make consuming her work uncomfortable for them. Maybe somewhere other than here? Her involvement in the parts with Scarlett very much belong here. ---
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/473 "2025-02-04T15:07:36Z")
Again, I will quote from the article, there is evidence that his money gave him more power in the relationship. > Palmer would have preferred to live in New York City, but Gaiman liked the woods. Eventually, he picked a sprawling estate set on 80 acres in Woodstock. It was Gaiman’s money, a friend who accompanied them on the house hunt says, “and he was going to have the say.” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/474 "2025-02-04T15:14:01Z")
No-one is disputing he had more money. That’s not the same as agreeing that Amanda was either completely financially dependent on him, or a helpless slave with no agency. ---
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/475 "2025-02-04T15:18:19Z")
I’m saying whatever money and power she had may not have been enough to protect the victims when Gaiman had a history of using his greater wealth to control the situation and get what he wants. ---
**Author:** ![Hermione1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d07c76/32.png) [@Hermione1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione1)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/476 "2025-02-04T15:27:08Z")
What I found skeevy about Palmer’s depiction in that article was her asking if her son had his headphones on when Gaiman made advances to a victim. As if it were okay for him to DO THESE THINGS IN THE SAME ROOM AS HER SON, as long as his headphones were on. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/477 "2025-02-04T15:31:16Z")
> [@Hermione1](#): > > Gaiman made advances to a victim By “made advances to”, did you mean “committed anal rape upon”? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/478 "2025-02-04T15:37:27Z")
> [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > I am not talking about whether the cause is moral. I am considering how the funds are spent in accordance with what was outlined in the kickstarter. If people know what they are paying for someone else can think it’s a bad deal but the person making the donation gets to decide for themself if they are happy with it. I see. So this doesn’t have anything at all to do with right, wrong or immoral? The people who donated were told the truth about how their money would be spent, and that contract was kept so nobody else has any grounds to complain? Possibly, I could disegree more strongly. I’ll have to wait a while to be sure though. I am having a bad day. ---
**Author:** ![Hermione1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d07c76/32.png) [@Hermione1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione1)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/479 "2025-02-04T15:43:05Z")
I was being a little circumspect in my language, yes. 😳 I hadn’t reread the article and wasn’t quite sure of exactly how far that incident had gone, only that Palmer’s reaction to it was weird. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781/480 "2025-02-04T15:45:07Z")
I appreciate that but given the current flow of this thread I thought a more accurate description was warranted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-accused-of-being-serial-sexual-abuser/1003781.md?page=25)