# Neil Gaiman - all hat, no cattle? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 4, 2011, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-all-hat-no-cattle/591449 "2011-08-04T11:43:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-all-hat-no-cattle/591449/21 "2011-08-04T17:22:07Z")
In the other thread, I described his prose as “Reader’s Digest”-like. He has wonderful ideas and imagination, but his use of language is simplistic and wanting. His best work is as an idea man, being supported by other contributors to the particular medium beyond the writing. E.g Sandman (simplified prose), Doctor Who (simplified screenplay), Good Omens (carried by his co-author). His writing technique isn’t _bad_ (e.g. Dan Brown, Brian Herbert), it’s just the minimum to fill the page and convey the idea without anything extra to make it special. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-all-hat-no-cattle/591449/22 "2011-08-04T17:36:08Z")
Comparing Moore to Gaiman in comics is a bit like comparing Hemingway to Fitzgerald. Many people like one over the other because of their widely differing styles and the way that Hemingway pushed the boundaries of prose at the time while Fitzgerald polished it to a beautiful gloss. Yet many people like both of them and can’t imagine giving either up. I’m in the latter group. Moore certainly has a high with Watchmen but he keeps writing and writing and writing and it’s not all near that level. The Sandman books had flaws all the way through but cohere into a larger whole than the individual parts. And for those who say that Gaiman doesn’t push boundaries, his work on Metamorpho in [Wednesday Comics](http://www.usatoday.com/life/comics/2010-05-27-chi-wedcomics27-st_N.htm) was a jaw dropper. His novel writing is high quality, although he’s good rather than great. A good book is always better than a good comic, IMO; even a collection never has the same heft. He’s really written only three adult novels, Stardust, American Gods and Anasazi Boys. That’s not a huge body of work to judge him by. And his comic work is the Sandman and a bunch of one-offs. That’s another comparison to Fitzgerald, whose body of work was much smaller than Hemingway’s. I can still like 'em all, though. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-all-hat-no-cattle/591449/23 "2011-08-04T17:37:21Z")
I think Gaiman is okay. _The Graveyard Book_ is the first of his that actually connected with me in any strong way. Everything else was just, “Eh, it’s okay.” ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-all-hat-no-cattle/591449/24 "2011-08-04T17:41:51Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Comparing Moore to Gaiman in comics is a bit like comparing Hemingway to Fitzgerald. Many people like one over the other because of their widely differing styles and the way that Hemingway pushed the boundaries of prose at the time while Fitzgerald polished it to a beautiful gloss. Yet many people like both of them and can’t imagine giving either up. Nice. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-all-hat-no-cattle/591449/25 "2011-08-04T17:46:04Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I know - the Texas-style aphorism is kinda off, but I couldn’t come up with the Goth / dark fantasy equivalent on the fly 😉 All bat, no belfry? > [@](#): > > Do you like Neil Gaiman? Yes, a lot. Not unreservedly - sometimes he’s too clever for his own good. And I don’t know what he sees in Amanda Palmer. > [@](#): > > If so, would you rate him as substantive, a bit lighter or something different vs. Alan Moore? Both are substantive, not light - both attempt to bring more to the comics genre than they found there. Both try and stretch the medium and make it literary. Neither are lightweights. But I think Moore is \*better \*at being a comic writer, whereas Gaiman has realised his writing works better in just words or as film. > [@](#): > > How do you contrast their work? Moore chiefly works in the superhero and (for want of a better word) retro-revisionist genres (see _Tom Strong_, _LoEG_,\* Lost Girls\* and \*Albion \*for what I mean by the latter. Heck, even _Watchmen_.) Gaiman chiefly works in fairy tale and myth, IMO. There’s a completely different flavour to them, for all that they’re good friends. FWIW, I \*much \*prefer Moore in superhero comics - “Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?” is a classic, “Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader?” is just overly-intellectual shite. But I love Gaiman’s novels, his short fiction and his non-superhero comics. And _Black Orchid_. Gaiman is not really any \*lighter \*than Moore. He’s usually less _perverse_ (that is a descriptor, not a pejorative) but he tackles some pretty darn heavy subject matter. _American Gods_ is not a happy fun book, for instance. Neither was \*Neverwhere \*or _Stardust_, come to think of it. Hell, have you read his light [Christmas story](http://www.neilgaiman.com/works/Books/Smoke+%2526+Mirrors/in/197/)? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-all-hat-no-cattle/591449/26 "2011-08-04T17:52:48Z")
Oooh, I forgot 1602 - see what I mean, though, Gaiman does superheroes best when he turns them into fairy tails, like with 1602 and Black Orchid. Or, come to think of it, Sandman. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-all-hat-no-cattle/591449/27 "2011-08-04T18:14:42Z")
I think Gaiman’s _Sandman_ is one of the finest comic books I’ve ever read, certainly better than most modern novels I’ve read. Within the comic book field the only things I can think of that would exceed it would be Moore’s work on \*The Swamp Thing \*and _Watchmen_, the post-WW2 Spirit by Eisner, and maybe Jeff Smith’s _Bone_. However, the only one of Gaiman’s novels I’ve read is _Stardust_ and that was nothing special. I think that Moore is probably the better writer. I also think that Walt Simonson, during his run on _Thor_ in the 1980’s showed a capacity equal to Gaiman’s for making old myths relevant to modern times. However, having said all that, I do like Gaiman’s work quite a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-all-hat-no-cattle/591449/28 "2011-08-04T21:15:31Z")
I would compare _American Gods_ to Neal Stephenson’s _Snow Crash_: Clever ideas, engaging setting, sympathetic characters, and no idea how to end the book. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-all-hat-no-cattle/591449/29 "2011-08-04T21:19:53Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > I would compare _American Gods_ to Neal Stephenson’s _Snow Crash_: Clever ideas, engaging setting, sympathetic characters, and no idea how to end the book. Okay, from a structure standpoint, yes. But Snow Crash is a glorious, thought-provoking, speculative mess. American Gods is an interesting idea with moody writing and a flat finish. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-all-hat-no-cattle/591449/30 "2011-08-04T21:26:10Z")
I only read Anansi Boys, Neverwhere, Good Omens and American Gods. I don’t like comics so Sandman is not for me. I loved American Gods. I was bored by Anansi Boys and I liked Neverwhere. Good Omens was funny but it was funny because Pratchet wrote it (with Gaiman). People that read Neverwhere before American Gods love the first one better and viceversa. That’s because they are similar books and the novelty isn’t there the second time around. But he is a good writer. I also saw Stardust and I loved it. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-all-hat-no-cattle/591449/31 "2011-08-04T22:23:00Z")
Put me down as another for: “he’s the guy that wrote Sandman”. I’ve enjoyed some of his other stuff, but Sandman is brilliant, and what he’ll be remembered for. > [@Tengu](#): > > One of his short works - Murder Mysteries, it’s called - has been done in 3 separate media - a radio play, a short story, and a comic (drawn by P Craig Russell)…the two I’m familiar with (short story and comic) are both quite good. (I think Neil does the framing story and the angelic side better, Russell does the main thrust of the human side better - specifically more clearly.) If you want [to make it three for three](http://otrarchive.blogspot.com/2010/05/seeing-ear-theater.html). There’s a second Gaiman written radio-drama on there as well. Semi-related aside: I hope someone tries to re-try something like Seeing Ear Theater. I had a lot of fun listening to it back when it was still operational, and with podcasts and portable mp3 players becoming more popular then they were back circa '00, I think there’d be more of a chance for success then originally. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-all-hat-no-cattle/591449/32 "2011-08-04T22:30:34Z")
Liked _Neverwhere_, really liked _American Gods_, found _Anansi Boys_ to be a bit meh. Apparently not universal reactions, to go by this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-all-hat-no-cattle/591449/33 "2011-08-04T22:46:32Z")
**The High Cost of Living** not only made me cry when I read it, it brings tears to my eyes when I think about it or describe it or others. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-all-hat-no-cattle/591449/34 "2011-08-05T01:07:43Z")
To this Texan, “All Hat No Cattle” is full of contempt. Used to describe some Connecticut Yankee who can’t ride, whose handlers bought an old pig farm & let real ranchers run their cattle there–so he could have photo-ops while “cutting brush.” Even the most loyal of Texans would love to have a cool vacation retreat for those months when the state becomes unbearable; did the Mainers let him know he was unwelcome? (August in Houston is usually hot–it’s even hotter this year. And Houston is a few degrees cooler than Central Texas.) Oh, that No Cattle guy has a Yankee father who’d lived in Texas for years but never bought serious land; he could have gotten some prime Hill Country real estate when it was affordable. Sorry for the detour. I’ve heard lots about Neal Gaiman but was not seriously impressed by the stuff I’ve read. However, the Doctor Who Confidentials for the last half season just popped up on my cable system’s On Command. For _The Doctor’s Wife_, I saw Neal reading bits of his script, pleased to the tips of his fanboy toes to be doing it on the TARDIS set. And we saw bits of the show–the ones that made this fangirl shed a tear or two. I’ll go over this thread & add more of his stuff to my reading list. He’s earned it. Besides, Stetsons Are Cool! ---
**Author:** ![Tapiotar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-all-hat-no-cattle/591449/35 "2011-08-05T01:08:52Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > In the other thread, I described his prose as “Reader’s Digest”-like. He has wonderful ideas and imagination, but his use of language is simplistic and wanting. His best work is as an idea man, being supported by other contributors to the particular medium beyond the writing. You said it perfectly here, and in the other thread. His books do feel exactly like a Reader’s Digest condensation of a better book. Thank you, GargoyleWB, for saying it so succinctly. ---
**Author:** ![Nocturne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9fc348/32.png) [@Nocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nocturne)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-all-hat-no-cattle/591449/36 "2011-08-05T01:32:52Z")
I do like Gaiman. I enjoyed American Gods and Neverwhere, loved Coraline, the Graveyard Book, and Stardust, and liked Anansi Boys okay but it’s by far my least favorite. I do find his poetry to be excellent–for the most part, it’s far better than his prose, if you like formal poetry. I like about 80 percent of his short stories. The rest are readable, but not great. Sandman and the Death books were very good, but I’m pretty burnt out on them. He is very fun in readings–I hope that I get to see him do one again. I can see how people would not enjoy his books, though. He is occasionally funny but never quite manages to blend horrible puns with new humor like Terry Pratchett does. And he is usually rather sparse with his prose–but that’s something I actually like in authors. I don’t want to read a 800 page book when the story could be better told in 400 pages. Word-padding bugs me (which is why I became very tired with series like The Wheel of Time), and Gaiman doesn’t do a lot of it. And sometimes, as with Anansi Boys, he tries far too hard. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-all-hat-no-cattle/591449/37 "2011-08-05T01:41:21Z")
> [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](#): > > I think Gaiman’s _Sandman_ is one of the finest comic books I’ve ever read, certainly better than most modern novels I’ve read. Within the comic book field the only things I can think of that would exceed it would be Moore’s work on \*The Swamp Thing \*and _Watchmen_, the post-WW2 Spirit by Eisner, and maybe Jeff Smith’s _Bone_. What about the Hernandez Brothers? I feel their work is at the top of the field. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-all-hat-no-cattle/591449/38 "2011-08-05T01:42:35Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I think his kids books are his best work. Two of my son’s favourite books are Gaiman’s _The Wolves in the Walls_ and _The Day I Swapped My Dad for Two Goldfish_ – both of which are great fun to read to a kid too. The latter also came with a CD of Gaiman reading the book which is rather enjoyable. ETA: and both feature the excellent, quirky art of Dave McKean! ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-all-hat-no-cattle/591449/39 "2011-08-05T01:51:24Z")
Sandman and related works such as Death: The High Cost of Living and The Dream Hunters are amazingly good, and I would include them near the top of my personal favorites. Coraline and The Graveyard Book were very enjoyable, but I wouldn’t count them as personal favorites. They’re just quick, fun reads. Good Omens is nice, but I always figured it was more Pratchett than Gaiman. Never read the other novels, but I don’t think they can be overrated because I don’t think they are that highly rated to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-all-hat-no-cattle/591449/40 "2011-08-05T03:28:46Z")
I’ve read Good Omens, and thought it was marvelous. Otherwise, neither Pratchett nor Gaiman has done anything for me. Both of them write very standard, perfunctory stories with no particularly interesting twists or turns. Stardust and Coraline, for example, are both highly reminiscent of stories that I’ve made up on the spot, telling them as they come to me. A few witty one liners isn’t sufficient to make such a story an all-time great. In Good Omens, they did a good job of coming up with thousands of side plots and twists which they sprang on you long after you’d forgotten about them. There was clearly a good bit of work that went in to weaving everything together (perhaps as a side effect of two people trying to work together), and that paid off. I have not read the Sandman. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-all-hat-no-cattle/591449.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-gaiman-all-hat-no-cattle/591449.md?page=3)