# Neither GHWBush nor GWBush are great men **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 9, 2002, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-ghwbush-nor-gwbush-are-great-men/102680 "2002-04-09T16:02:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DPWhite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DPWhite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPWhite)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-ghwbush-nor-gwbush-are-great-men/102680/21 "2002-04-10T05:41:24Z")
Well Cap, I didn’t say they were bad presidents, only that they were not great men in the sense the Adamses were. And since we were in the Pit and I thought the whole thing was a bit overwrought in light of the failure to actually offer an insult in the first place, I was juxtaposing the John Ashcroft thing. After all, it was a Pit rant. And I don’t dislike W. I know that sounds a bit like Jerry Falwell saying he doesn’t hate homosexuals, but hates the sin of homosexuality, but really, I’m suppose that W is the kind of guy I could knock back an iced tea with and have a great bull session about just about anything with, as long as it wasn’t deep or anything. You know, a Cafe Society type of chat. (I’d say knock back a beer, but I’ve never cared for beer, nothing personal Unc.) ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-ghwbush-nor-gwbush-are-great-men/102680/22 "2002-04-10T06:02:18Z")
Hey, I like “Weird Al” Yankovic, but I wouldn’t want him to be President, either. (And dare I ask who **UncleBeer** voted for back in 11/2000? Nah…) ---
**Author:** ![Dijon\_Warlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9a28c/32.png) [@Dijon\_Warlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dijon_Warlock)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-ghwbush-nor-gwbush-are-great-men/102680/23 "2002-04-10T06:23:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\* > I would slice off my penis and eat it for dinner before I listen to conservative talk radio. \*\* So Lorena and Jeffrey **did** have a love child… ---
**Author:** ![Wikkit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c0e974/32.png) [@Wikkit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wikkit)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-ghwbush-nor-gwbush-are-great-men/102680/24 "2002-04-10T06:32:59Z")
\ George W. Bush != Jr. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-ghwbush-nor-gwbush-are-great-men/102680/25 "2002-04-10T06:42:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by musicguy \* > \*\*I had far more respect for Bush Senior than his son. Bush Jr. seems to really have only one goal in mind, and that is to get re-elected. I really hope people wake up and that oft-mentioned popularity rating starts to go down as more folks realize he really isn’t doing anything to help this country unless it personally benefits himself. \*\* Oh, next you’ll be saying that Clinton did everything he did for the good of the Country. The first Clinton term - Health care. Give it to Mrs Clinton. It turns into a horrid mess, drop it and move on. Lather, rinse and repeat. And the definition of ‘is’ is really up in the air. Slee ---
**Author:** ![LCP2972](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@LCP2972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LCP2972)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-ghwbush-nor-gwbush-are-great-men/102680/26 "2002-04-10T09:51:48Z")
quote -originally posted by sleestak * * * Oh, next you’ll be saying that Clinton did everything he did for the good of the Country. The first Clinton term - Health care. Give it to Mrs Clinton. It turns into a horrid mess, drop it and move on. Lather, rinse and repeat. And the definition of ‘is’ is really up in the air. * * * where the hell did that come from? and what the blue eyed beejesus does it have to do with **any** of this? has anyone mentioned a Clinton at all? from my point of view, this thread (I haven’t read the other) has been strictly about whether or not either GHW Bush, or GW Bush were great men in comparison to the other father/son set elected to president. why does any criticism of our present pres have to devolve into “but look at what Clinton did!”? Clinton is gone, many of the things that went on in his administration have either been undone, are being worked on to get undone, or just stopped happening when Mr. Bush took office. if you can’t defend your team’s actions at least be honest about it, dont try to deflect by bringing past sins of a different kind into it. I had the misfortune to live in a smaller area run by Mr. Bush , and I don’t like his actions, in fact they cost me a great deal financially after the repurcussions hit. I find his hipocrisy on the drug issue comepletely distasteful(as I did with Clinton) as well as the DWI bit. I will vote against him again, but again , it won’t do a bit of good because the vast majority of **voting** texans will overrule my piddlin’ little vote. ---
**Author:** ![musicguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@musicguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/musicguy)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-ghwbush-nor-gwbush-are-great-men/102680/27 "2002-04-10T15:18:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sleestak \* > \*\* > > Oh, next you’ll be saying that Clinton did everything he did for the good of the Country. The first Clinton term - Health care. Give it to Mrs Clinton. It turns into a horrid mess, drop it and move on. Lather, rinse and repeat. > > And the definition of ‘is’ is really up in the air. > > Slee \*\* A little defensive, are we? I would love to know why there can’t be a Bush thread that stays on topic without bringing Clinton into it. Rather than waste time reiterating your problems with the **former** president, why not just defend the current one. By failing to do so, you have just helped prove that the title of this thread is a correct statement. ---
**Author:** ![DPWhite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DPWhite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPWhite)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-ghwbush-nor-gwbush-are-great-men/102680/28 "2002-04-10T15:55:34Z")
Let’s not hijack this thread to talk about Clinton. If someone wants to start a Clinton rant in the Pit, they are welcome to it, but this is a Pit rant primarily about how neither Jr. nor Sr. are great and how you cannot say anything about Bush that isn’t completely flattering in another thread. (And yes, I know that technically neither Adamses nor Bushers were Jrs and Srs. Gee, something else they have in common.) ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-ghwbush-nor-gwbush-are-great-men/102680/29 "2002-04-10T16:37:21Z")
> [@](#): > > The topic thread was comparing the Adams presidents to the Bush presidents, and all the startling similarities, much like the old Lincoln/Kennedy stuff. Of course, I pointed out that both Presidents Adams were great men and that neither President Bush was a great man. Nothing more. If that is a “jab”, it is an awfully gentle one. I respectfully disagree that it is a “jab”. Given this explanation, I owe you an apology, DPWhite. I completely misunderstood your comment in MPSIMS. I wrongly allowed my opinion of your politics to prejudice my interpretation of your post. As I said, I saw it as a rant at the Bushes. I see clearly now that I was mistaken; you were simply illustrating one more disparity to negate the parallels drawn in the OP. The correct interpretation of your post never occured to me; for that you have my humble apologies and a complete retraction of my remarks. I judged in haste. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-ghwbush-nor-gwbush-are-great-men/102680/30 "2002-04-10T17:26:41Z")
I don’t think you have anything to apologize for, UncleBeer, I think you did the right thing. It is well known that DPWhite has a very low _opinion_ of GWB [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1914950#post1914950](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1914950#post1914950) > [@](#): > > Even though it is a proven fact, in other words an appropriate response to a general question, that W is a bonehead, bumbler, bomber, etc., you cannot say that in GQ… the mere fact that he didn’t voice that particular level of vitriol in his MPSIMS comment is irrelevant. It was a snide, unnecessary comment based on his _opinion_ of the Bushes, every other comment there was based on the _facts_ surrounding the respective presidencies of the Adamses and Bushes. If you hadn’t given him and rjung a little slap on the wrist, who knows how many other negative comments would have been tossed in by other Bush haters, and turned that cute little thread into a bitching match. People should be allowed to chit chat about Bush (or Clinton, for that matter) without having Bush (Clinton) haters piping in with incessant negative comments, especially in MPSIMS. It was a jab, and a little jab at that, but was it really necessary to interrupt a harmless thread with it? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-ghwbush-nor-gwbush-are-great-men/102680/31 "2002-04-10T18:33:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wikkit \* > \*\*\ > > George W. Bush != Jr. \*\* Yeah, but that’s been his nickname since he was a kid. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-ghwbush-nor-gwbush-are-great-men/102680/32 "2002-04-10T18:33:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > **I don’t think that’s really the lesson to be learned here, unless UncleBeer is John Ashcroft, and I don’t think he is** [sub]Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![DPWhite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DPWhite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPWhite)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-ghwbush-nor-gwbush-are-great-men/102680/33 "2002-04-10T20:19:56Z")
Uh, Uncle Beer, that was almost too humble an apology, but accepted, and remember, you were just doing your job over in MPSIMP, and volunteer job at that, for which you thought I was about to spoil some fun. Lord knows I misposted before (although I’m the last person to say convict someone anyway because even thought they couldn’t have done this crime they must be guilty of others) I have lots of conservative friends, many who would have reacted to my post in the original thread the same way, without thinking. Like I said, I don’t personally dislike GW. I don’t know the man. The little Ashcroft crack was in this thread. Do I dislike GW’s politics? Of course, but this thread isn’t really about that either. Let’s get to what this thread is about: Guys, I know a lot of politicians personally, both Republican and Democrat. California 15th Assemblymember Lynne Leach has some of the most bizarre and repulsive right wing politics known to man. I ran against her second term. I also happen to know her personally, and vice versa. I know her personal and private faults and she probably knows mine (excluding my public making a fool of myself on this board.) She is a very pleasant and nice person, the kind you would like to spend the afternoon with. A brilliant conversationalist, etc. She is currently running for State Superintendent of Public Instruction, and I hope she loses and retires from politics. I know other politicians and get a lot of dirt told my way that doesn’t make the newspapers, probably because it is unconfirmed, and I won’t go into details. There are politicians who are wonderful human beings, and there are politicians who are only interested in what you can do for their current or planned election effort and there are people who get into the business out of spite to the world. The media reports none of this, and pretty much cannot. You cannot judge the character of a politician if you don’t know them personally. You simply don’t have the information. Even the Rush Limbaugh type (both sides, not a crack about RL here) of information is so one sided and politically spun, that it is worthless. The one exception that I think we can draw in American politics is Richard Nixon, because we know so many of his private thoughts. I see a lot of highly personal trashing of our public servants at the expense of discussions on policy. I see both parties doing some of it, and I see the press reporting it instead of policies. Let’s face it, it is a lot simpler to throw people into good and bad categories, like and dislike, than to analyze a program, much less a proposed program. ---
**Author:** ![Barking\_Spider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Barking\_Spider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barking_Spider)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-ghwbush-nor-gwbush-are-great-men/102680/34 "2002-04-11T00:11:19Z")
I agree, but for my own reasons. Neither Papa or Son Bush are great men. But then how many of our Presidents would be considered “great men”. Not many. ---
**Author:** ![DPWhite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DPWhite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPWhite)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-ghwbush-nor-gwbush-are-great-men/102680/35 "2002-04-11T00:32:08Z")
Washington, Lincoln, Franklin Roosevelt were world class great figures. All the founding father Presidents were great men for having incredible foresight and bravery to even attempt to found a nation. Honorable mention to Thomas Jefferson as a great man aside from being president. But I think that only truly dire circumstances make a great man (or woman) and thank the good Lord that we don’t have that but once a century or so. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-ghwbush-nor-gwbush-are-great-men/102680/37 "2002-04-11T00:55:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FCUK YUO \* > **\** Score: Liberals-1, Conservatives-nothing. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-ghwbush-nor-gwbush-are-great-men/102680/38 "2002-04-11T00:56:13Z")
May I be the first to ask… WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?!?! Geez, man, we speak English here, not Democrat. 😉 I think you need to inhale more often, fella. ---
**Author:** ![Sylkyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/da6949/32.png) [@Sylkyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylkyn)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-ghwbush-nor-gwbush-are-great-men/102680/39 "2002-04-11T00:57:06Z")
How did my ex find this thread? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-ghwbush-nor-gwbush-are-great-men/102680/40 "2002-04-11T01:03:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FCUK YUO \* > \*\*U GUY SARE ALL ABUNCH OF LIBERULMTOHER FUCKERS! IFF GORGE WW HDA ON QUORTER OFTHE TALINT H EHA SNOW HE WULD STIL BEE MY IDOLE. A WYSE MAN WUNCE SED NEVR ARGU BOUT RELIGIN OR P OLITICKS. U SHUD HAV LISSEND TO HI,M BCAUDSE ANUYTHER WISE MANN ONCE SED NEVER TOCK ABUOT THINGS YOU DONT NO ABOWT, U DUMMASS!!! \*\* FCUK-that’s an interesting name-what nationality is that? If you ever needed proof that one should never surf the net while drunk… :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-ghwbush-nor-gwbush-are-great-men/102680/41 "2002-04-11T01:11:14Z")
And the entertainingly short but meteoric run of our friend is over. I was following his progress with great interest, but it seems to have ended right in its prime. _sigh_ Another Democrat bites the dust. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-ghwbush-nor-gwbush-are-great-men/102680.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-ghwbush-nor-gwbush-are-great-men/102680.md?page=3)