# Neither Michael nor Debbie Related To Jackson's Kids **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 1, 2009, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-michael-nor-debbie-related-to-jacksons-kids/501552 "2009-07-01T04:48:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-michael-nor-debbie-related-to-jacksons-kids/501552/41 "2009-07-01T18:41:22Z")
> [@RachelChristine](#): > > Now what is the whole legal status of a baby when you are pregnant and married? I know there is some thing about the husband being considered the legal father, no matter what, right? A friend of mine was asked at her divorce proceedings if she was or could be pregnant, and told that it didn’t matter who the father was, because she was still legally married (she wasn’t pregnant). I’ve heard things like that before. > > I’ve also heard conflicting stories about what happens if you don’t list a father on a birth certificate at all (presumably you’d have to list a mother, but apparantly Blanket’s doesn’t!). What are the rules/laws about not listing a father? I’m pretty sure my niece doesn’t have one listed on her bc, so what happens if her step-dad wants to adopt her or something? What if the baby is born to one woman but is biologically related to another, but a third woman has paid for surrogacy/eggs and intends to raise the child? I always assumed the third woman was on the birth certificate. Technology sure does complicate things. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-michael-nor-debbie-related-to-jacksons-kids/501552/42 "2009-07-01T21:20:43Z")
Each of the 50 states has different laws on birth certificates and such, so it’ll be a mess wading through them. While Rowe came out looking horrible, if she was indeed just a sarrogate, you can’t blame her. But it does bring the issue of rich people paying for babies or getting them easier, whether it’s Jackson, Rosie O’Donnell, Madonna, or even Bette Davis in the old days. If you don’t know she adopted a daughter and was lied to by the agency. The agency gave her a child that they knew “had issues” and of course they knew if they gave it to an actress like Davis, she couldn’t return it. Yes, back then, people returned kids. But Davis wouldn’t risk the bad publicity. So it’s really not a new issue, but it does lead to a lot of other questions. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-michael-nor-debbie-related-to-jacksons-kids/501552/43 "2009-07-02T03:07:22Z")
> [@StaudtCJ](#): > > … It could have been as simple as choosing not to procreate genetics he had decided were flawed (or he carried some sort of genetic condition that he refused to pass on),… There were / are rumors that he had a condition called alpha one antitrypsin deficiency, which is indeed genetic. I saw a link of photos of his kids (taken by a friend with kids of a similar age) and it was pretty obvious that they weren’t genetically his - no hints whatsoever of any African ancestry in their features - certainly not the amount one would expect given MJ’s pre-surgery appearance. They looked well cared-for and happy. I do have to give MJ credit - aside from one or two odd instances early on (anyone remember the photo of him holding one baby up over the edge of a balcony?), they were kept out of the limelight. > [@Freudian Slit](#): > > What if the baby is born to one woman but is biologically related to another, but a third woman has paid for surrogacy/eggs and intends to raise the child? I always assumed the third woman was on the birth certificate. In a surrogacy situation, the birth mother is considered the legal mother - HOWEVER, typically the requesting parents have an agreement beforehand that also includes a court order that the child be listed as theirs on the birth certificate. Not all states support this, and apparently surrogates have to be able to deliver their baby in a state which does. This from a friend who has two children born to surrogate mothers (friend had a hysterectomy at a young age). The one surrogate lived in state A, but had to drive to state B to deliver as state A had a lot of restrictions on surrogacy. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-michael-nor-debbie-related-to-jacksons-kids/501552/44 "2009-07-02T20:51:07Z")
Thanks, **Mama Zappa**. The latest is that Debbie Rowe [is seeking custody](http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_12742220). ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-michael-nor-debbie-related-to-jacksons-kids/501552/45 "2009-07-03T00:14:02Z")
> [@BMax](#): > > Seeing as how there have been blacks in North America since 1619 and whites brought them here, the unequal power structure of slavery, and that mixed race people were almost always defined as black until the last couple decades, I’d say it’s almost certain that Amyre Makeupson has lots of white ancestors. IIRC, her mother was black, her father white, and even though she looks white, she identified more with her mother and therefore considers herself [del]black[/del] “African American”. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-michael-nor-debbie-related-to-jacksons-kids/501552/46 "2009-07-03T01:38:29Z")
Debbie Rowe is just after money. After the marriage ended, which in her defence she said ended because she couldn’t have more kids after complications with the 2nd one. Anyway, Rowe got a LOT of money. Then years later a judge said, Rowe hadn’t properly given up her custody right. What do you know??? Yet ANOTHER huge settlement. Do you think Rowe is out for the kids? Or do you think she wants still ANOTHER huge settlement. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-michael-nor-debbie-related-to-jacksons-kids/501552/47 "2009-07-03T02:32:23Z")
> [@Shirley\_Ujest](#): > > There is a (now) retired reporter here in the Detroit area, [Amyre Makeupson](http://www.covenanthousemi.org/board/amyre-makupson) who I grew up watching. When I found out she was black, I goggled. > > Same thing for Lena Horne. > > I have no idea of if there are any caucasian genes floating around in either of these women, but I thought I would toss it out there for another Genetics bit. [Homer Plessy](http://www.awesomestories.com/images/user/5e6f557671.jpg), of [_Plessy v. Ferguson_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plessy_v._Ferguson). ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-michael-nor-debbie-related-to-jacksons-kids/501552/48 "2009-07-03T18:29:02Z")
> [@BMax](#): > > Seeing as how there have been blacks in North America since 1619 and whites brought them here, the unequal power structure of slavery, and that mixed race people were almost always defined as black until the last couple decades, I’d say it’s almost certain that Amyre Makeupson has lots of white ancestors. The same is true for Michael Jackson. And Debbie Rowe is white. Odds are the other egg donor was too. It’s really not that unlikely for the kids of those parents - even all three kids - to turn out looking as white as they do. The kids might not be his, of course, but the way they look is not evidence either way. ---
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-michael-nor-debbie-related-to-jacksons-kids/501552/49 "2009-07-03T18:33:42Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > IIRC, her mother was black, her father white, and even though she looks white, she identified more with her mother and therefore considers herself [del]black[/del] “African American”. OK. That means that at least half her ancestors were of European extraction, or “white”. Which means that Amyre Makeupson has lots of white ancestors. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-michael-nor-debbie-related-to-jacksons-kids/501552/50 "2009-07-04T06:03:44Z")
If you really want to read about mixing of the races, check out Brazil. There is a lot of study going on in that country because it is very ethnically mixed, between blacks and whites. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-michael-nor-debbie-related-to-jacksons-kids/501552/51 "2009-07-04T07:00:48Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > … the will will\* be probated… > > \*I couldn’t figure out how to avoid that pairing. So sue me. [hijack]sorry, I couldn’t PM you. the will shall be probated - yes, it’s kind’a “snobbish,” but it doesn’t sound like you’re stammering. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-michael-nor-debbie-related-to-jacksons-kids/501552/52 "2009-07-04T07:08:13Z")
> [@a35362](#): > > I just don’t get the kids growing up with their 80-year-old grandparents, even if they do have a good relationship with Grandma and their aunts and uncles and cousins. I don’t want them near Grandpa, but I suppose he can’t do anything to them nowadays. Better they stay with family members who are familiar to them than send them to biological parents they don’t know. Underline mine and oh, yes he can. The most basic form of abuse is psychological. My grandfather is 94yo and the whole family’s blood pressure raises at the idea of spending any time with him: it will until the day he dies. The last time he got kicked out of a store for trying to grope a cashier was two years ago and he’s also the kind of guy who makes true the aphorism “nobody can push your buttons like your parents: after all, they installed them.” ---
**Author:** ![Stillwell\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@Stillwell\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stillwell_Angel)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-michael-nor-debbie-related-to-jacksons-kids/501552/53 "2009-07-04T16:25:58Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > And Debbie Rowe is white. Odds are the other egg donor was too. The latest issue of US Weekly is saying that MJ’s dermatologist (and Rowe’s boss) was the sperm donor. No idea of that’s true or not but from the picture they showed of him I did detect a slight resemblance with the two older kids. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-michael-nor-debbie-related-to-jacksons-kids/501552/54 "2009-07-04T23:01:00Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > More like, if Jacko didn’t go through the legal channels to formally adopt his children, then there’s gonna be a shitload of trouble for these poor kids. The third child is the only one he would’ve had to adopt. The oldest two were born to his wife while they were married. Since when do you have to adopt the children your wife births when you’re married, whether the sperm came from you or not? I’m fairly sure that California requires no such thing. > [@Markxxx](#): > > IF the article does pan out what I don’t get is why didn’t Jackson just use his own sperm? Even if there wasn’t anything else, the vitiligo was a fairly good reason. It can be a psychologically devastating disorder, and there’s some indication that it can be hereditary. And recall that throughout his young life, Jackson was always told that he was ugly. Ugly, an ugly monkey, and so on. His father’s mental abuse, which has been substantiated by outside parties (like Barry Gordy and Quincy Jones) as well as other Jackson siblings, no doubt had a lifelong effect on Michael. If you’re sure that you, as you were made, are the ugliest thing that ever walked on two legs, are you going to pass your looks onto children if you can do something else? > [@](#): > > It’s interesting that Jackson and Debbie Rowe were married in Australia with laws that as a whole don’t really recognize [surrogacy](http://www.dh.sa.gov.au/reproductive-technology/other.asp) or rather they give much power to the birth mother over the [donors](http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23457321-5013404,00.html). Not particularly. They didn’t reside in Australia, so it’s irrelevant. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > And she was okay with him taking the second child out of the hospital right after she was born. That “right after she was born” story has so many loopholes in it, it deserves about as much credence as reports of a perpetual motion machine. Hospital childbirth just doesn’t work that way. No matter how much money you have. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-michael-nor-debbie-related-to-jacksons-kids/501552/55 "2009-07-05T07:11:15Z")
We’re accepting the vitiligo story now? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-michael-nor-debbie-related-to-jacksons-kids/501552/56 "2009-07-05T15:40:30Z")
Rowe’s immediate reaction was that she did not want anything to do with the kids. But, now it appears there will be a lot of money in it. Michael Jackson’s estate will make a lot of money. The kids will get a chunk. Suddenly she wants HER kids. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-michael-nor-debbie-related-to-jacksons-kids/501552/57 "2009-07-05T23:23:54Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > Genetics isn’t as simple as that. Quite a lot of mixed-race kids don’t look mixed race. Ryan Giggs is one example - especially when he was younger. Wasn’t Gigg’s father of mixed race himself? The kids look nothing like most mixed race children I have seen. They are very unlikely to be his children. No matter what he did to his skin he can’t change his genes. Gigg’s father was of mixed race so you’re example isn’t on point. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-michael-nor-debbie-related-to-jacksons-kids/501552/58 "2009-07-05T23:25:24Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > We’re accepting the vitiligo story now? Ummm no. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-michael-nor-debbie-related-to-jacksons-kids/501552/59 "2009-07-06T01:51:55Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > Ummm no. Well, **tumbledown** cited that as a reason for why he wouldn’t want to use his own sperm. I just couldn’t believe there were people who really thought he was suffering from vitiligo. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-michael-nor-debbie-related-to-jacksons-kids/501552/60 "2009-07-06T03:27:02Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > We’re accepting the vitiligo story now? I think he had it. [Cite.](http://floacist.wordpress.com/2007/06/10/vitiligo-photos-michael-jackson/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-michael-nor-debbie-related-to-jacksons-kids/501552.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-michael-nor-debbie-related-to-jacksons-kids/501552.md?page=4)