# Neither mundane nor pointless: The Congressional Medal of Honor **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 22, 2008, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698 "2008-02-22T05:59:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/21 "2008-02-22T19:41:59Z")
Thanks. It’s a shame I can’t recall hearing anything about them ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/22 "2008-02-22T21:12:20Z")
[QUOTE=ivylass] During Ancient Roman times, Sulla passed a law that any soldier who had won a military crown had to wear it in public and receive a standing ovation whenever he appeared in the Senate. [/QUOTE] Not sure I’d use Sulla as an example for American democracy. [QUOTE=Wikipedia] Sulla is generally seen to have provided the example that led Caesar to cross the Rubicon, and also provided the inspiration for Caesar’s eventual Dictatorship. Cicero comments that Pompey once said “If Sulla could, why can’t I?”. Sulla’s example proved that it could be done, and therefore inspired others to attempt it; he has been seen as another step in the Republic’s fall. [/QUOTE] Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![SkeptiJess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@SkeptiJess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkeptiJess)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/23 "2008-02-22T22:05:31Z")
My son was home on leave this last week (he left for Iraq on Wednesday) and we spoke about this very subject. Nick is a Hospital Corpsman, a very highly decorated group – there are more Hospital Corpsmen with the MoH than any other Navy rate. What sparked our conversation was an old book I picked up for Nick – I can’t give you the title, since my Dad borrowed it. Anyway, it was a history of the US Navy’s involvment in the Vietnam War. The back of the book included a picture of each Navy MoH awardee from that war. What really struck me was how ordinary these guys looked. Look at this [guy](http://www.medalofhonor.com/JamesWilliams.htm). You could pass him at WalMart a million times and never dream you were looking at one the most highly decorated enlisted men in Navy history. Be sure to scroll down and read his citation – he had a Navy Cross and the MoH, plus a stack of other medals. That’s what a hero looks like – just another guy. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/24 "2008-02-22T22:07:00Z")
I’m not saying Sulla didn’t have his faults (proscribing and executing businessmen and wealthy knights to plump up the Treasury, for instance) but he did acknowledge and celebrate military heroism. Caesar won a Civic Crown, and even his enemies (Cato, Bilubus, Cicero) had to stand and applaud him. Shouldn’t we _want_ to acknowledge and celebrate military heroes? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/25 "2008-02-23T02:28:28Z")
[QUOTE=ivylass] Shouldn’t we _want_ to acknowledge and celebrate military heroes? [/QUOTE] Unfortunately, in this day and age it is no longer “cool” to do so. A previous poster was correct when he said it would take another Hitler to turn that around. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/26 "2008-02-23T03:33:36Z")
[QUOTE=ivylass] I’m not saying Sulla didn’t have his faults (proscribing and executing businessmen and wealthy knights to plump up the Treasury, for instance) but he did acknowledge and celebrate military heroism. Caesar won a Civic Crown, and even his enemies (Cato, Bilubus, Cicero) had to stand and applaud him. Shouldn’t we _want_ to acknowledge and celebrate military heroes? [/QUOTE] Sorry, but that strikes me as a weasel question of the most dangerous kind. You don’t want Communism in our schools, do you? Don’t you want to defeat the terrorists? If you don’t agree with my position, then why do you hate America? Lauding individuals for heroism in the military is one thing. Lauding the military itself, and its leaders, is another. Why do you think Cicero being forced to applaud Caesar was a _good_ thing? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/27 "2008-02-23T03:39:47Z")
Missed the edit window, otherwise I would ETA: I realize now that this is MPSIMS, not GD, so sorry if I pounced too severely there. But even in ordinary conversation, boxing someone in with “don’t you want to see [some undeniably good thing] done?” doesn’t strike me as strictly polite if [good thing] is not really equivalent to the thing you’re disagreeing with. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/28 "2008-02-23T06:32:51Z")
[QUOTE=Autolycus] Thanks. It’s a shame I can’t recall hearing anything about them ☹ [/QUOTE] **Mr. Moto** posted threads in honor of those particular men, and a few others, during the war, but they were hijacked due to political reasons. My politics back then were entirely different, but even now I find myself disturbed by that, given the nature of the threads, even though the posts were well intentioned. I’m sorry I can’t find them, but if you do a dedicated search I’m sure they’ll turn up. I miss \*_Olentzero_. He was a good guy, even if his timing sucked (he was the major hijacker… if I recall correctly, he posted in every thread “End the war. Bring the troops home now.”). Back when I met him I couldn’t abide by anything he said, yet he made me think. Now I’d probably agree with him on a lot of things. Too bad he got frustrated and gave up on the SDMB. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/29 "2008-02-23T12:57:33Z")
[QUOTE=ivylass] During Ancient Roman times, Sulla passed a law that any soldier who had won a military crown had to wear it in public and receive a standing ovation whenever he appeared in the Senate. I think I could go along with something like that. [/QUOTE] So the symbolism you like is that the elected civic officials are subordinate to military heroes? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/30 "2008-02-23T13:10:46Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] [QUOTE=Autolycus] Speaking of this, have any MoH been awarded in the Iraq or Afghanistan theaters? [/QUOTE] Navy [Lieutenant Michael P. Murphy](http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=32528) USMC Corporal Jason Dunham [and](http://www.history.army.mil/html/moh/iraq.html) US Army SFC Paul R. Smith [/QUOTE] Newsweek ran an article a few weeks ago about how the number of MoH awarded in Iraq is quite low, compared to previous combats. One explanation is that the nature of the combat there, with less emphasis on hand-to-hand combat than in Vietnam or WWII, does not give as many opportunities for the type of personal bravery associated with the MoH. Not everyone is buying that explanation: [Where’s the Respect? GIs who risked their lives in Iraq want to know why only two Medals of Honor have been awarded there.](http://www.newsweek.com/id/107585) ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/31 "2008-02-23T13:29:29Z")
[QUOTE=Koxinga] Why do you think Cicero being forced to applaud Caesar was a _good_ thing? [/QUOTE] I have to agree (with you **Koxinga**.) I can’t say I favor any version of being forced to revere something. Either you appreciate it on its own virtue or you don’t. I mean, if you want to celebrate heroism–devoid of the politics surrounding it–why not applaud the medal of honor equivalents from France or China? Not only Americans perform brave acts. I’m sure there are some WWII Japanese heroes still about, we can send them to China to be applauded. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Them](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/898d66/32.png) [@The\_Them](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Them)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2008, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/32 "2008-02-23T14:43:16Z")
Not being the sort of person who is much into military exploits…but **man** , those guys are unreal brave. Movie stars don’t impress me; MoH recipients do. Some years ago, a guy wrote a Letter to the Editor of our local paper about a lieutenant he’d served with in Korea. Didn’t give a name\*, though I’m sure some research could find it. This man, by himself, charged a machine-gun nest and took it out, saving his entire unit. Sadly, it didn’t save him; his MoH was given to his mother by President Truman. That is just stunning, that somebody could work up courage like that. \*This was because the lieutenant in question was gay, and the letter writer was making a point about gays in the military. He didn’t feel it was his place to out anybody. I’m NOT trying to start any debates here, just giving the context of where I got this information. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2008, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/33 "2008-02-24T01:00:51Z")
[QUOTE=The Them] Not being the sort of person who is much into military exploits…but **man** , those guys are unreal brave. Movie stars don’t impress me; MoH recipients do. Some years ago, a guy wrote a Letter to the Editor of our local paper about a lieutenant he’d served with in Korea. Didn’t give a name\*, though I’m sure some research could find it. This man, by himself, charged a machine-gun nest and took it out, saving his entire unit. Sadly, it didn’t save him; his MoH was given to his mother by President Truman. That is just stunning, that somebody could work up courage like that. \*This was because the lieutenant in question was gay, and the letter writer was making a point about gays in the military. He didn’t feel it was his place to out anybody. I’m NOT trying to start any debates here, just giving the context of where I got this information. [/QUOTE] From the description, that might have been Rodger Young, the namesake of troop carrier in Heinlein’s “Starship Troopers.” ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2008, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/34 "2008-02-24T01:21:15Z")
[QUOTE=Ogre] From the description, that might have been Rodger Young, the namesake of troop carrier in Heinlein’s “Starship Troopers.” [/QUOTE] World War II > **[Rodger Young](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodger_Young)** > > Rodger Wilton Young (April 28, 1918 – July 31, 1943) was a United States Army infantryman from Ohio during World War II. Born in the small town of Tiffin, Ohio, in 1932, Young suffered a sports injury in high school that led to his becoming nearly deaf and blind. Despite this, he was able to pass the exams necessary to enter the Ohio National Guard. Soon after the United States entered World War II, Young's company was activated as part of the U.S. Army. Soon after his activation, in 1943, You... ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2008, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/35 "2008-02-24T02:21:50Z")
[QUOTE=Zebra] I remember a little while back, (post 9/11) how an airport security guard almost confiscated a CMoH from it’s owner because ‘it looked too dangerous’ to allow him to take on the plane. Never mind that the owner was fairly old as well but the guy didn’t even know what it was he held in his hand. [/QUOTE] Oh yes. That article made me sick to my stomach. I know the man who trained [Gary Gordon & Randy Shughart](http://www.history.army.mil/html/moh/somalia.html). He said he’d never trained two finer men, nor was he a bit surprised that they would lay down their own lives to prolong the life of that downed pilot. They knew damned well that the cavalry wasn’t coming. I think it’s a shameful thing that everyone in this country can’t immediately identify the [Congressional Medal of Honor](http://www.history.army.mil/moh.html). If you are ever lucky enough to see a man wearing one, walk up to him and thank him. But you’ll probably never be that lucky. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2008, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/36 "2008-02-24T02:33:08Z")
Some of you Sci-Fi fans will recognize this one: > [@The Congress of the United States](#): > > YOUNG, RODGER W. > Rank and organization: Private, U.S. Army, 148th Infantry, 37th Infantry Division. > Place and date: On New Georgia, Solomon Islands, 31 July 1943. > Entered service at: Clyde, Ohio. > Birth: Tiffin, Ohio. > G.O. No.: 3, 6 January 1944. > > Citation: On 31 July 1943, the infantry company of which Pvt. Young was a member, was ordered to make a limited withdrawal from the battle line in order to adjust the battalion’s position for the night. At this time, Pvt. Young’s platoon was engaged with the enemy in a dense jungle where observation was very limited. The platoon suddenly was pinned down by intense fire from a Japanese machinegun concealed on higher ground only 75 yards away. The initial burst wounded Pvt. Young. As the platoon started to obey the order to withdraw, Pvt. Young called out that he could see the enemy emplacement, whereupon he started creeping toward it. Another burst from the machinegun wounded him the second time. Despite the wounds, he continued his heroic advance, attracting enemy fire and answering with rifle fire. When he was close enough to his objective, he began throwing hand grenades, and while doing so was hit again and killed. Pvt. Young’s bold action in closing with this Japanese pillbox and thus diverting its fire, permitted his platoon to disengage itself, without loss, and was responsible for several enemy casualties. > > [http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/mohiib2.htm](http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/mohiib2.htm) From the troop ship “Roger Young” in **Starship Troopers** , by Robert Heinlein. “To the everlasting glory of the infantry, Shines the name of Roger Young.” The original book had the citation, and subsequent editions had a dedication at the end. Among it’s many faults, the movie had nothing. Tris ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2008, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/37 "2008-02-24T02:53:33Z")
[QUOTE=EJsGirl] I think it’s a shameful thing that everyone in this country can’t immediately identify the [Congressional Medal of Honor](http://www.history.army.mil/moh.html). If you are ever lucky enough to see a man wearing one, walk up to him and thank him. But you’ll probably never be that lucky. [/QUOTE] I was reading some of the descriptions listed and one under “Special Legislation” caught my eye because at first I couldn’t figure out why it was awarded: > [@](#): > > \*MITCHELL, WILLIAM > > AN ACT Authorizing the President of the United States to award posthumously in the name of Congress a Medal of Honor to William Mitchell. > > Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the President of the United States is requested to cause a gold medal to be struck, with suitable emblems, devices and inscriptions, to be presented to the late William Mitchell, formerly a Colonel, United States Army, in recognition of his outstanding pioneer service and foresight in the field of American military aviation. > > SEC. 2. When the medal provided for in section I of this Act shall have been struck, the President shall transmit the same to William Mitchell, Junior, son of the said William Mitchell, to be presented to him in the name of the people of the United States. > > SEC. 3. A sufficient sum of money to carry this Act into effect is hereby authorized to be appropriated, out of money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated. > > Approved August 8, 1946. Private Law 884. Then I finally realized that it was [William “Billy” Mitchell](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Mitchell). :smack: ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2008, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/38 "2008-02-24T03:15:07Z")
[QUOTE=Zebra] I remember a little while back, (post 9/11) how an airport security guard almost confiscated a CMoH from it’s owner because ‘it looked too dangerous’ to allow him to take on the plane. Never mind that the owner was fairly old as well but the guy didn’t even know what it was he held in his hand. [/QUOTE] That was the late [Joe Foss](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Foss), and it was right here at the Phoenix airport, where he lives. Those are the same folks who let a handcuffed woman accidently strangle herself. IIRC it was because of the star on it; they were afraid he might tear the neck ribbon off and use it as a shuriken or something. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2008, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/39 "2008-02-24T03:37:30Z")
[QUOTE=EJsGirl] I think it’s a shameful thing that everyone in this country can’t immediately identify the [Congressional Medal of Honor](http://www.history.army.mil/moh.html). [/QUOTE] This would be a somewhat more meaningful sentiment if you named the award correctly. 😉 It is called the “Medal of Honor.” There’s no such thing as a “Congressional Medal of Honor.” ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2008, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/40 "2008-02-24T03:40:04Z")
There’s an excellent book by Christopher Robbins called [The Ravens: Pilots of the Secret War in Laos](http://www.dcothai.com/product_info.php?products_id=362). (Robbins also wrote another good book called _Air America_. The Mel Gibson film was based on it, but Robbins was angered that they took his book and made it into a goofy comedy. He spent a lot of money on ads disassociating himself from the film.) Ravens were volunteer pilots during the secret war in Laos. In the book, the particular exploits of quite a few who won the MOH are detailed. No matter how one feels about the secret war itself, it’s a fascinating read. There are still a few Ravens around here, too. They not infrequently turn up in Madrid Bar in our Patpong red-light district, especially for reunions. Madrid was one of the earliest bars there, dates back to the Vietnam War days. The CIA’s Air America offices were also in Patpong. Madrid Bar itself used to be owned by the real-life prototype for Colonel Kurtz in _Apocalypse Now_. He did operate some in Cambodia, but his main work was in Laos. Survived the war, too. Eventually ended up getting kicked out of Thailand for “unspecified” offenses maybe 10 or 12 years ago and returned to the US. Died not too long afterward. (Tony Poe was the real-life Kurtz’s name. No, he did not receive the MOH.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698.md?page=3)