# Neither mundane nor pointless: The Congressional Medal of Honor **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 22, 2008, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698 "2008-02-22T05:59:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2008, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/61 "2008-02-25T23:11:55Z")
[Cpl. Tibor Rubin](http://www.army.mil/medalofhonor/rubin/profile/index.html) is the real deal, even among MoH recipients. He was a Mauthausen concentracion camp survivor, who enlisted in the Army after the war, and then fought in Korea, where he fought like hell, was seriously wounded and captured. After he recovered in the POW camp, he began sneaking out to get food for his fellow POWs, risking his life each time. The only reason he got the MoH in 2005 was because of anti-Semitism on the part of his company’s First Sergeant. Rubin was recommended for the MoH on 3 separate occasions, but the sergeant didn’t fill out the paperwork, so he didn’t get it. > **[Tibor Rubin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibor_Rubin)** > > Tibor "Ted" Rubin (June 18, 1929 – December 5, 2015) was a Hungarian-American Army Corporal. A Holocaust survivor who immigrated to the U.S. in 1948, he fought in the Korean War and was awarded the Medal of Honor for his actions during the war, as a combatant and a prisoner of war (POW). > Rubin received the award from President George W. Bush on September 23, 2005, 55 years after the Korean War. Rubin was repeatedly nominated for various military decorations, but was overlooked because of antis... ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/62 "2008-02-26T16:57:48Z")
[QUOTE=Koxinga] Bo-_ring_. I wanna see another show about Hitler! Or mebbe the mysteries of the Sphinx. [/QUOTE] I’m determined to find out more about the death of Tutankhamen or "The Boy King "as he is known. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/63 "2008-02-26T21:52:14Z")
There was a series about Medal of Honor winners. Cliff Robertson was the narrator. I think it may have been on PBS but I am not sure. IIRC they talked profiled mostly living awardees and included interviews with them. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/64 "2008-02-26T22:06:15Z")
[QUOTE=Loach] It seems like they have tightened up the criteria again. Seems like you are required to die and you must sacrifice yourself to save fellow soldiers, not just defeat the enemy. Makes better copy. When I read what [this guy](http://www.homeofheroes.com/valor/02_wot/nc_chontosh.html) did it made me realize that things had changed. [/QUOTE] Is that really true? Because that’s upsetting to me if the award now can only be awarded posthumously, even if that’s just an unofficial criterion. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/65 "2008-02-27T00:02:03Z")
[QUOTE=Zsofia] Is that really true? Because that’s upsetting to me if the award now can only be awarded posthumously, even if that’s just an unofficial criterion. [/QUOTE] That’s how I’m reading it. If Capt Brian Chontosh only got the Navy Cross then I don’t see any other explaination. I have seen nothing official. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/66 "2008-02-27T01:51:07Z")
[QUOTE=bump] The only reason he got the MoH in 2005 was because of anti-Semitism on the part of his company’s First Sergeant. Rubin was recommended for the MoH on 3 separate occasions, but the sergeant didn’t fill out the paperwork, so he didn’t get it. [/QUOTE] Is it too late to submitt the paperwork for Congressional Medal of Asshole? ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/67 "2008-02-27T02:32:57Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] As to the “Congressional” prefix: ["Congressional" Medal of Honor - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=389466) One of my all-time heroes, and a worthy recipient of the Medal of Honor: [Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos](http://www.geocities.com/athens/aegean/6732/files/jlc1.html) [/QUOTE] One of, well, _one_ man whose Medal of Honor ranked among the _least_ of his accomplishments. Little Round Top wasn’t even the most heroic of his _wartime_ endeavors, and even when the war was over he had yet to receive (I wish people could conceive of the extravagant improbability of this, at the time) the _French_ Medal of Honor. His tombstone, in Brunswick, is quite impressive. It’s a small squarish stone embellished with the name “Chamberlain,” and nothing else. For knowledgeable and intelligent people of conscience, nothing else is or ever will be needed, ever. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/68 "2008-02-28T03:32:36Z")
[QUOTE=Triskadecamus] Some of you Sci-Fi fans will recognize this one: From the troop ship “Roger Young” in **Starship Troopers** , by Robert Heinlein. “To the everlasting glory of the infantry, Shines the name of Roger Young.” The original book had the citation, and subsequent editions had a dedication at the end. Among it’s many faults, the movie had nothing. Tris [/QUOTE] There is actually more to the story than the citation lets on. [Read the whole story](http://dwrighsr.tripod.com/heinlein/ryoung.html) > [@](#): > > It began on a humid day on Guadalcanal in June 1943. The 148th Infantry Regiment, Young’s outfit, was girding for its next objective-- New Georgia Island with its insignificant but strategically vital Munda airstrip. > > The company commander was busy that morning. He looked up sharply when Rodger Young, a thin, pale, and bespectacled staff sergeant, walked into his tent, saluted and said: ‘’ Sir, I would like to request permission to be reduced to the rank of private. ‘’ It was an odd request. ‘’ What is your reason for wanting to be busted, Sergeant? ‘’ the captain asked brusquely. ‘’ Well, sir-- ‘’ The little sergeant reddened, and continued haltingly, ‘’ well, you see, my ears are going bad. I can’t hear very well any more. ‘’ He swallowed, and then finished in a rush. ‘’ And I don’t want any of my men killed in New Georgia because of me. ‘’ > > The C. O. 's eyes narrowed suspiciously. Was this a new twist in the technique of getting invalided home? ‘’ What’s the matter, Sergeant? ‘’ he barked. ‘’ Don’t you want to fight? ‘’ > > Young stiffened. ‘’ Sir, ‘’ he said distinctly, ‘’ I don’t want to leave the outfit. I want to go on – but as a private, so I’m only responsible for myself. I don’t want to get anyone hurt because of me. ‘’ His voice was thin and firm. ‘’ If I thought I’d be left behind because of this, then I’d rather drop the whole thing. ‘’ To the everlasting glory of the infantry ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/69 "2008-02-28T04:45:20Z")
Oh for Christ’s sake… that’s one of the frigging storylines in the movie version of _Starship Troopers_! :smack: Except that the guy wants to get busted down so he can get back in the fight instead of training recruits. I am actually thinking positively about that movie for once… ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/70 "2008-02-28T13:50:14Z")
It’s been a while since I re-read _Starship Troopers_, and my copy is still packed away, but I seem to recall that in the book Rico’s former drill instructor, Sgt Zim(?), requested a demotion in order to be eligible for a combat position. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/71 "2008-02-28T15:15:23Z")
[QUOTE=Loach] That’s how I’m reading it. If Capt Brian Chontosh only got the Navy Cross then I don’t see any other explaination. I have seen nothing official. [/QUOTE] But doesn’t it usually take, like, years for the MOH gears to grind? ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/72 "2008-02-28T17:58:47Z")
I met a MOH winner up on the Arctic ice pack in '90. His name was Drew Dix–he made Rambo look like a [wussy](http://www.homeofheroes.com/drewdix/citation.html). He could be quite a gruff, but he was always nice to me. I never asked him about the specified action, because 1) I was told he really didn’t like to talk about it as “his” action, that it was a team effort, and 2) when he had notified of the award, he wasn’t sure which engagement they were referring to–apparently there were several others that were just as harrowing. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Fir\_na\_tine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fir\_na\_tine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fir_na_tine)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/73 "2008-02-28T18:27:05Z")
[QUOTE=The King of Soup] His tombstone, in Brunswick, is quite impressive. It’s a small squarish stone embellished with the name “Chamberlain,” and nothing else. For knowledgeable and intelligent people of conscience, nothing else is or ever will be needed, ever. [/QUOTE] Have you ever been inside the theater on the campus at Bowdoin College? There is the usual collection of old brass plaques that list the graduates who have fought in various wars. As a history buff I always read stuff like this. One of them lists all the graduates who fought for the Confederacy. Finding something like that here in New England was quite a surprise. I believe this was his idea. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/74 "2008-02-28T21:31:56Z")
[QUOTE=Zsofia] But doesn’t it usually take, like, years for the MOH gears to grind? [/QUOTE] Yes but they are not grinding for Capt Chontosh. His actions happened during the intial invasion of Iraq against regular Iraqi army troops. In 2003. He was awarded the Navy Cross. There is no move in the pentagon to get his medal upgraded. It is possible but not likely. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2008, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/75 "2008-02-29T02:43:52Z")
[QUOTE=Fir na tine] Have you ever been inside the theater on the campus at Bowdoin College? There is the usual collection of old brass plaques that list the graduates who have fought in various wars. As a history buff I always read stuff like this. One of them lists all the graduates who fought for the Confederacy. Finding something like that here in New England was quite a surprise. I believe this was his idea. [/QUOTE] Yes I have. I believe the plaques were an early project of the Bowdoin ROTC, for which Chamberlain also deserves credit. As for the specific plaque you mention, remember that he was chosen to accept the surrender of the soldiers of the Army of Northern Virginia, and chose, without orders and against precedent, to have the Army of the Potomac salute them. So a decent regard for brave soldiers who ended up on the wrong side was certainly not beyond perhaps the greatest humanitarian ever to join the U.S. Army. I have always been curious about, but have never done the heavy research (I’ve done enough to find the answers don’t come easy) to find out what he thought of the political/military situation in Europe in his last years. If anyone _has_, I’d be grateful for an assist. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2008, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/76 "2008-02-29T03:00:39Z")
[QUOTE=The King of Soup] Yes I have. I believe the plaques were an early project of the Bowdoin ROTC, for which Chamberlain also deserves credit. As for the specific plaque you mention, remember that he was chosen to accept the surrender of the soldiers of the Army of Northern Virginia, and chose, without orders and against precedent, to have the Army of the Potomac salute them. So a decent regard for brave soldiers who ended up on the wrong side was certainly not beyond perhaps the greatest humanitarian ever to join the U.S. Army. I have always been curious about, but have never done the heavy research (I’ve done enough to find the answers don’t come easy) to find out what he thought of the political/military situation in Europe in his last years. If anyone _has_, I’d be grateful for an assist. [/QUOTE] ROTC was established by the National Defense Act of 1916. Chamberlain died in 1914. He left Bowdoin College in 1883. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2008, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/77 "2008-02-29T03:24:12Z")
I just read something tonight about The Congressional Medal of Honor Museum onboard the _USS Yorktown_ in Charleston, SC. The price of admission gets you in to the CMOH Museum, plus all of the ships, aircraft and exhibits at Patriots Point Naval & maritime Museum. You can see it [here](http://www.patriotspoint.org/exhibits/medal_honor/) (NOTE- this page is silent, but the Patriots Point homepage has cool 40’s music playing). And they listed it as “Congressional”- somebody should tell 'em to change that… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2008, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/78 "2008-02-29T04:21:25Z")
[QUOTE=Loach] ROTC was established by the National Defense Act of 1916. Chamberlain died in 1914. He left Bowdoin College in 1883. [/QUOTE] True enough. Chamberlain merely instituted military education and drill at Bowdoin College decades [in advance](http://www.joshua.lurker00.com/jlcprez.htm) of ROTC, for which I contend he deserves credit because he, basically, invented it. But there’s enough reason to admire the man without these quibbles, and I would not quarrel with fans of the great Leonard Wood. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2008, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/79 "2008-02-29T04:24:22Z")
I finally had a chance to check with my husband about the MoH winner he knew. His name was [John Levitow](http://www.mishalov.com/Levitow.html). His story is pretty amazing. Papa Tiger apparently also sees a number of MoH winners who come in to visit the wounded troops at the military hospital where he works. They’re still out there quietly showing what amazing people they are. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2008, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698/80 "2008-02-29T04:30:33Z")
Shoot, missed the edit window. If you scroll down that page, you can see photos of the plane with the thousands of shrapnel holes. But what really got to me is my son just got out of the Air Force – and at the time he got out, he was exactly the same age and the same rank as John Levitow. As my husband said, “You never know what you’re going to do until you’re in the situation.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neither-mundane-nor-pointless-the-congressional-medal-of-honor/438698.md?page=5)