# "Neo-Con" is a code word for Jew **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2004, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-con-is-a-code-word-for-jew/266258 "2004-09-27T04:43:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PaulFitzroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2acd7d/32.png) [@PaulFitzroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulFitzroy)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-con-is-a-code-word-for-jew/266258/1 "2004-09-27T04:43:59Z")
This is my experience in political discussion. Whenever people, whether they be liberals or old-line conservatives, use the term “neo-con,” they’re always talking about the same people: Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Bill Kristol, and the philosopher Leo Strauss. All Jewish. Neo-conservativism is usually discussed as a type of conservatism based only on political cynicism and lacking the traditional moral values that constitute “real” conservatism. And it’s usually used as a term of contempt. And the topic of Israel always seems to seep in whenever you’re talking to someone and that “N-word” comes up. This is my experience; others may think differently. But what I have found is that Neo-Con has become a political code-word for “Jew.” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-con-is-a-code-word-for-jew/266258/2 "2004-09-27T05:05:07Z")
[http://www.inthesetimes.com/comments.php?id=81\_0\_3\_0\_C](http://www.inthesetimes.com/comments.php?id=81_0_3_0_C) > [@](#): > > Arabs and Jews Against the War > > The Arab and Jewish residents of the Middle East wrote: > > In spite of the growing international opposition of millions of people all over the world, it has become clear that the United States intends to lead a military assault against Iraq, regardless of the expected number of civilian casualties and suffering. Indeed, the imminent war will undoubtedly have catastrophic effects on the people of Iraq, on the Middle East as a whole, and on the West Bank and Gaza Strip more specifically. > > Peoples of this region will pay the price of the war, the price of death, destruction, hatred and more war. > > Based on our experience from 1991, we also fear that massive repressive measures could be launched against Palestinian civilians during this period. We urge all peace-loving people in Israel to join forces in order to pre-empt such policies, and call for international protection of the Palestinian people living under Israeli occupation. > > We, Israeli and Palestinian members of civil society, are against this war, as it is not about security or justice, but about power, hegemony, control and greed. We firmly believe that security as well as freedom for the peoples of this region cannot be achieved through war, violence and death. > > We call upon all people and organizations to raise their voices in opposing this war and to work jointly toward the establishment of a just, comprehensive and durable peace in the region. > > Together we say: No to the War Against Iraq! Yes to a Life of Peace & Justice in the Middle East! Yes to Ending Israeli Occupation! Nah, Neo-cons are not just Jews. As Neo-cons were favor of the war, I see that there were Jews who opposed it too. One who is opposing Neo-cons is not showing religious prejudice, but thinks Neo-cons are just cons. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-con-is-a-code-word-for-jew/266258/3 "2004-09-27T05:07:29Z")
Look for the “ask a Neo-Con”\* thread. It has all the answers. \*maybe not the exact name. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-con-is-a-code-word-for-jew/266258/4 "2004-09-27T05:09:24Z")
I have never heard that association anywhere else. I think your Rohrschach is showing. ---
**Author:** ![JonScribe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-con-is-a-code-word-for-jew/266258/5 "2004-09-27T05:11:50Z")
Condi Rice is Jewish? Who knew? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-con-is-a-code-word-for-jew/266258/6 "2004-09-27T05:16:20Z")
IIRC, we’ve had this debate before. Personally, i think that your contention is ridiculous. Certainly it’s true that a noticeable percentage of influential people who can reasonably be desribed as neo-cons are also Jews, but it takes much more than this to demonstrate that “neo-con” is some sort of anti-Jewish slur, which is what your OP seems to be suggesting. Even the term neo-con itself has changed over time. It is now, as you suggest, quite closely associated with Leo Strauss and those in power who subscribe to his theories and ideas. But the earlier definition of neo-con related more closely to people who had originally been Communists or communist sympathizers, but who shifted away from communism and become, in fact, vocal opponents of communism and boosters of Americanism. Admittedly, quite a few of them were Jewish, but there have also been a considerable number of people described as “neo-cons” who are not Jewish. I’m not discounting the possibility that _some_ people use the term neo-con as a derogatory synonym for Jew. For the most part, however, a neo-con is a person who subscribes to a reasonably well-defined political ideology or world-view. Whether that person is Jewish or not is, for me and for most political commmentators, really quite beside the point. You mention in your OP that discussion of the neo-conservative view often includes mention of Israel. Well, considering that one of the places in which neo-cons currently hold most influence is in the area of US foreign relations, surely Israel is going to come up quite frequently. Whether you’re a neo-con or not, it’s hard to talk about US foreign policy for very long without getting on to the subject of Israel, especially given the current importance of the Middle East in world affairs, and Israel’s role as a key US ally in the region. I get the impression from your OP that you’re talking about those who criticize both neo-conservatives, and who also criticize Israeli policies. I’ve heard this connnection made before, and often in the same sort of context that you are raising. The implication is often that those who oppose Israeli foreign policy, and who oppose neo-cons, do so out of anti-Semitism. IF you are making such a suggestion (and i’m not saying you are), i just want to point out that, despite the tendency of some people to conflate the two, opposition to Israeli foreign policy IS NOT the same as anti-semitism. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-con-is-a-code-word-for-jew/266258/7 "2004-09-27T05:21:42Z")
I thought the term originated with Cold War, Democrat hawks like Jeane Kirkpatrick? ---
**Author:** ![PaulFitzroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2acd7d/32.png) [@PaulFitzroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulFitzroy)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-con-is-a-code-word-for-jew/266258/8 "2004-09-27T05:30:45Z")
I hear the term come from liberals (who may or may not be against Israeli policy,) and are probably not anti-Semites, and I’ve heard it from Buchanan-type hardline Christian conservatives who are usually anti-Israel and often anti-Semites. I hear the term a lot. All I’m saying is that it always seems to have a negative connotation, and a lot of the time I hear it with the same attitude that you used to hear “Jew banker.” Admittedly this is before my time, but I have a general idea of pre-WWII American anti-Semitism. And I think “neo-con” is a politically-correct way of saying “Jew” for a lot of people. Not all. Just many I’ve spoken to or heard from online. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-con-is-a-code-word-for-jew/266258/9 "2004-09-27T05:36:03Z")
That’s like saying that if someone called me an idiot, “idiot” would be a homophobic slur. ---
**Author:** ![PaulFitzroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2acd7d/32.png) [@PaulFitzroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulFitzroy)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-con-is-a-code-word-for-jew/266258/10 "2004-09-27T06:00:08Z")
No, your analogy is completely off-base. If a group of six homosexual men in high-level positions in government were constantly being lumped together and being given a nickname like “neo-cons,” then it’d be a comparable situation. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-con-is-a-code-word-for-jew/266258/11 "2004-09-27T06:04:53Z")
Only some neocons are Jewish, and they are mostly **secular** Jews, and some of those are former Trotskyite socialists. We’ve covered all this in “Ask the Neo-Con” – [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=268701&highlight=neocons](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=268701&highlight=neocons) From the Wikipedia – [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism\_(United\_States):](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism_%28United_States%29:) > [@](#): > > Neoconservatives are conservatives who are “new” (neo) to the conservative movement in some way. Usually, this comes as a result from the migration from the left of the political spectrum to the right, over the course of many years. Though every such neoconservative has an individual story to tell, there are several key events in recent American history that are often said to have prompted the shift. > > Many of today’s most famous neocons are from Eastern European Jewish immigrant families, who were frequently on the edge of poverty. The Great Depression radicalized many immigrants, and introduced them to the new and revolutionary ideas of socialism and communism. > > The Soviet Union’s break with Stalinism in the 1950’s led to the rise of the so-called New Left in America, which popularized anti-Sovietism along with anti-capitalism. The New Left became very popular among the children of hardline Communist families. > > Intellectually, neoconservatives have been strongly influenced by a diverse range of thinkers from Max Shachtman’s strongly anti-Soviet version of Trotskyism (in the area of international policy) to the elitist, ostensibly neo-Platonic ideas of Leo Strauss. > > **Opposition to the New Left and Détente with the Soviet Union** > > Later to emerge as the first important group of social policy critics from the working class, the original neoconservatives, though not yet using this term, were generally liberals or socialists who strongly supported the Second World War. Multiple strands contributed to their ideas, including the Depression-era ideas of former New Dealers, trade unionists, and Trotskyists, particularly those who followed the political ideas of Max Shachtman. The current neoconservative desire to spread democratic capitalism abroad often by force, it is sometimes said, parallels the Trotskyist dream of world socialist revolution. The influence of the Trotskyites perhaps left them with strong anti-Soviet tendencies, especially considering the Great Purges targeting alleged Trotskyites in Soviet Russia. A number of neoconservatives such as Jeane Kirkpatrick, Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz were Shachtmanites in their youth while others were involved in the Social Democrats, USA, which was formed by Schachtman’s supporters in the 1970s. > > The original “neoconservative” theorists, such as Irving Kristol and Norman Podhoretz, were often associated with the magazine _Commentary,_ and their intellectual evolution is quite evident in that magazine over the course of these years. Throughout the 1950s and early 1960s the early neoconservatives were anti-Communist socialists strongly supportive of the civil rights movement, integration, and Martin Luther King. However, they grew disillusioned with the Johnson administration’s Great Society. Some neoconservatives also came to despise the counterculture of the 1960s and what they felt was a growing “anti-Americanism” among many baby boomers, in the movement against the Vietnam War and in the emerging New Left. > > According to Irving Kristol, former managing editor of _Commentary_ and now a Senior Fellow at the conservative American Enterprise Institute in Washington and the Publisher of the hawkish magazine _The National Interest,_ a neoconservative is a “liberal mugged by reality.” Broadly sympathetic to Woodrow Wilson’s idealistic goals to spread American ideals of government, economics, and culture abroad, they grew to reject his reliance on international organizations and treaties to accomplish these objectives. As for the OP’s comment that “Neo-conservativism is usually discussed as a type of conservatism based only on political cynicism and lacking the traditional moral values that constitute “real” conservatism” – that is a perfectly just characterization of it. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-con-is-a-code-word-for-jew/266258/12 "2004-09-27T06:16:27Z")
Found it! [Here’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=187966) another thread where the neo-con/Jew connection was discussed, back in the days of **december** and **Collounsbury**. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-con-is-a-code-word-for-jew/266258/13 "2004-09-27T06:21:14Z")
> [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > No, your analogy is completely off-base. If a group of six homosexual men in high-level positions in government were constantly being lumped together and being given a nickname like “neo-cons,” then it’d be a comparable situation. Perhaps. But if it could also be demonstrated that (a) those six men did indeed share a certain type of conservative politics, and (b) that there was no necessary connection between their homosexuality and their politics, and (c) plenty of non-homosexuals also held such political views then it would be pretty silly to say that neo-con was a code word for homosexual. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-con-is-a-code-word-for-jew/266258/14 "2004-09-27T06:27:32Z")
> [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > All I’m saying is that it always seems to have a negative connotation… It isn’t really a stretch of the imagination to come up with several reasons why that might be. Apart from anti-semitism. Good solid plausible ones. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-con-is-a-code-word-for-jew/266258/15 "2004-09-27T06:38:37Z")
I remember askng this before, but I can’t recall the answer: are there any Jewish Republicans who are _not_ described as Neo-cons? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-con-is-a-code-word-for-jew/266258/16 "2004-09-27T07:19:22Z")
For starters, I don’t think I’ve ever heard Sens. Arlen Specter (R-Penn.) or Norm Coleman (R-Minn.) referred to as “neo-cons.” Michael Bloomberg is another. But I had to do a search to get an idea of who some of the Jewish Republicans are. Maybe you think that everyone automatically _knows_ these things or cares. Even with a name like _Bloomberg_ or _Wolfowitz_, I hadn’t actually thought about their religious affiliation or heritage. Should I? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-con-is-a-code-word-for-jew/266258/17 "2004-09-27T11:01:42Z")
**Zoe:** _Even with a name like Bloomberg or Wolfowitz, I hadn’t actually thought about their religious affiliation or heritage_ Word. I’m (half) Jewish\* myself and probably as aware as the average voter about high-profile Jewish politicians, and I routinely get confused about which US pols are Jewish and which are not. Recollect that (1) we’ve got a lot of German and Eastern European surnames of the sort that typically “sound Jewish” among non-Jews in this country too, and (2) many of today’s middle-aged American Jews were given non-Biblical, “English”-sounding first names by their assimilating first- or second-generation immigrant parents. Till the original flap about “neocon=Jew” came up, it wasn’t clear to me that neocon Richard Perle is Jewish but neocon Donald Rumsfeld isn’t. Both their names and both their political stances sound to me essentially equivalent: conservative American-imperialist hawks who might be Jewish or might not. **PF:** \*I’ve heard it from Buchanan-type hardline Christian conservatives who are usually anti-Israel and often anti-Semites. \* In that context, I’d be more inclined to agree with you that “neocon” might be to some extent an anti-Semitic code word. But the rest of us are certainly not using “neocon” in that sense, and it’s far too useful a descriptor for conservative American-imperialist hawkism to be relegated to a mere synonym for “Jew”. \*Standard disclaimer: I know that “half-Jewish” is not considered a meaningful descriptor by many Jews, but I use it because it’s the best way of describing the role of Judaism in my ethnic and cultural heritage, although I am not a Jew under Jewish law or in my religious beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-con-is-a-code-word-for-jew/266258/18 "2004-09-27T11:22:08Z")
It might be ‘code’ used by some antisemites, but then ‘urban’ is a code word for ‘black’ used by some racists, too. Doesn’t invalidate the term. I couldn’t give two hoots about the religion or ethnicity of the PNAC. I just want them to stop driving the world in the direction they’re driving it. ---
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-con-is-a-code-word-for-jew/266258/19 "2004-09-27T11:44:23Z")
This whole idea is quite silly. Neocons call _themselves_ neocons, fer chrissake!! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-con-is-a-code-word-for-jew/266258/20 "2004-09-27T13:00:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Neocons call _themselves_ neocons, fer chrissake!! Obviously all part of the Jewish conspiracy. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-con-is-a-code-word-for-jew/266258.md?page=2)