# Neo-Nazi leader in southwest killed by 10-year-old son **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 4, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-nazi-leader-in-southwest-killed-by-10-year-old-son/580717 "2011-05-04T17:25:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-nazi-leader-in-southwest-killed-by-10-year-old-son/580717/41 "2011-05-05T23:44:23Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > [Story here.](http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0511/neo_nazi_dead.php3) > > If the father had gotten killed doing something stupid, I’d laugh it off. But he was murdered in his sleep by his own 10-year-old son. > > What kind of sick things do you have to do to your own kid to make him hate you that much? > > I feel kind of sick right now, and God, how sorry I feel for that kid. Having a hard time feeling bad about this at all. I hope the kid gets help, but the nazi dad being shot? I’m not losin’ any sleep. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-nazi-leader-in-southwest-killed-by-10-year-old-son/580717/42 "2011-05-05T23:47:18Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You’re right. **mhendo** should have been nicer to the unapologetic racist. Not even close to being on the same level. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-nazi-leader-in-southwest-killed-by-10-year-old-son/580717/43 "2011-05-05T23:53:10Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Not even close to being on the same level. Same level as what? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-nazi-leader-in-southwest-killed-by-10-year-old-son/580717/44 "2011-05-05T23:54:37Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Same level as what? **LonesomePolecat** ’s views are not close to those of the dead guy. He wants to restrict immigration, which isn’t quite the same as killing all the brown people. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-nazi-leader-in-southwest-killed-by-10-year-old-son/580717/45 "2011-05-06T00:31:10Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > **LonesomePolecat** ’s views are not close to those of the dead guy. He wants to restrict immigration, which isn’t quite the same as killing all the brown people. He thinks allowing non-white people into the country is actively destroying “white culture,” and that people who don’t agree with him are race traitors. Is he a neo-nazi? Probably not, although I wouldn’t put money on it. Is he a racist shitstain? Indubitably. Was **mhendo** ’s comment unfair to him? Not remotely. Particularly not by the standards of this forum. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-nazi-leader-in-southwest-killed-by-10-year-old-son/580717/46 "2011-05-06T10:16:54Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > He thinks allowing non-white people into the country is actively destroying “white culture,” and that people who don’t agree with him are race traitors. Is he a neo-nazi? Probably not, although I wouldn’t put money on it. Is he a racist shitstain? Indubitably. Was **mhendo** ’s comment unfair to him? Not remotely. Particularly not by the standards of this forum. Meh. I find **Lonesome Polecat** ’s views on race generally loathsome and I still think it was a cheap, nasty shot IMO. You are entitled to disagree. (That said - “Beria”? Really? That’s the best comeback you got?) ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-nazi-leader-in-southwest-killed-by-10-year-old-son/580717/47 "2011-05-06T16:36:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > **LonesomePolecat** ’s views are not close to those of the dead guy. He wants to restrict immigration, which isn’t quite the same as killing all the brown people. It’s amazing that you can get so much wrong in such a short post. Firstly, if **LonesomePolecat** _merely_ wanted to restrict immigration, i wouldn’t be comparing him with a white supremacist. Secondly, after reviewing the links found in this thread, and doing some searches of my own, i have found no evidence at all that Jeff Hall’s politics, reprehensible as they were, involved “killing all the brown people.” In fact, after seeing what Jeff Hall had to say in the video provided in **Locrian** ’s link, and after reading [this interview](http://www.sdcitybeat.com/sandiego/blog-312-transcript-interview-with-late-neo-nazi-jeff-hall.html) with Hall from January of this year, it seems to me that Hall’s views conform extremely closely to those expressed frequently by **LonesomePolecat** on this board. If there’s a difference here, it’s a minor difference of degree, not of fundamental principles. As i said, if all **LonesomePolecat** wanted were to “restrict immigration,” and he offered an economic argument about wanting to reserve employment opportunities for American citizens, especially in a poor economy, i never would have made the comparison. While i might have disagreed with those arguments, i think that there are some pretty reasonable arguments to be made for restricting immigration based on the idea that the American government has an obligation to preserve opportunities for American citizens. But **LonesomePolecat** ’s arguments are never merely about restricting immigration, and they’re not just about American citizens; they’re about restricting immigration specifically and primarily to preserve the privilege and position and power of the white race in America. That’s a fundamentally different thing, and it’s what puts him squarely in the same category as Jeff Hall. Here are some examples of the OP’s positions on this and similar issues: > [@Starving Artist: Totally Insane? Or Just Almost?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/100): > > Aw, fuck that shit, you whiny little pussy. Anti-white racism is the most ubiquitous form of racism today, and multiculturalism is one of its forms. The men who founded this country never intended it to be a beautiful multicultural rainbow, and whites in America never consented to being reduced to a minority in the country their own ancestors founded. Whites have absolutely nothing to gain from giving up their status as the dominant majority, and this “collage of immigration and world culture” is becoming dangerously more unstable with every passing decade. > [@Arizona is out of control](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/512): > > And why would we object to it? Why shouldn’t we favor whites who speak English? If it’s all right for Hispanics to want America to be more brown, why should it be wrong for Anglos to want America to be more white? It is entirely natural to prefer people of your own race and culture over others. Why is it wrong for white Americans to do so? > > Where do you get this weird idea that whites should just quietly step aside and cede power and land to non-whites? > [@What is the evidence that McCain and Palin are racists?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-evidence-that-mccain-and-palin-are-racists/467341/52): > > Nope. The most ubiquitous form of racism today is anti-white racism, and the left routinely encourages and exploits it. > [@Should the US lower its immigration numbers?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-its-immigration-numbers/568488/125): > > And what the hell do we need diversity for? There are many problems and no advantages in diversity whatsoever. All this blabbering about how wonderful diversity is just a lot of happy talk. And anyway most people don’t want America to be “more diverse,” i.e. less white. > [@Should the US lower its immigration numbers?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-its-immigration-numbers/568488/122): > > That’s not the only reason, but it’s got a lot to do with it. Why is it okay for a Mexican to want America to be more brown, but wrong for me to want America to be more white? > [@Should the US lower its immigration numbers?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-its-immigration-numbers/568488/116): > > Whites won’t be the majority in the near future. So? > > > [@Should the US lower its immigration numbers?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-its-immigration-numbers/568488/124): > > > > If you don’t mind most of the country turning into Detroit and South Central L.A., I guess it wouldn’t make any difference to you. But anyone who doesn’t care about his children and grandchildren living in such a country has something horribly wrong with him. > [@Should the US lower its immigration numbers?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-the-us-lower-its-immigration-numbers/568488/104): > > Answer this: What can whites possibly gain from giving up their majority status? How could that possibly be a good thing for us? > [@What the fuck is wrong with Mexico?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-mexico/564615/202): > > My “racist policies and philosophical justification” is that I want Anglo-American civilization to keep its homeland in North America. And that homeland includes the southwestern United States. > > If that’s racism, I merrily plead guilty to the charge. And, if the race stuff isn’t enough, how about this for good measure (directed at another Doper): > [@There's no diversity like liberal diversity](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-no-diversity-like-liberal-diversity/424770/224): > > Please try not to be a snippy little faggot. If you think i’ve somehow managed to misrepresent his arguments by pulling quotes out of context, you’re welcome to click on the links and go to the threads. I think his position is pretty clear. > [@Gyrate](#): > > Meh. I find **Lonesome Polecat** ’s views on race generally loathsome and I still think it was a cheap, nasty shot IMO. Why cheap? If someone died whose political position i had spent many long arguments supporting, and someone else came in to compare me to the dead person, i wouldn’t feel it was a cheap shot. There are plenty of people on this board with whom i disagree on a regular basis. There are some people on this board who i actively dislike, and for whom i have no respect. But there is, to my knowledge, only one person on this whole board who i would consider a hypocrite for starting a thread to rant against a white supremacist, and that person is **LonesomePolecat**. As for “nasty,” well i’m struggling to think of anything i could say that would be nastier than the type of arguments that make up his stock-in-trade. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-nazi-leader-in-southwest-killed-by-10-year-old-son/580717/48 "2011-05-06T16:40:24Z")
I withdraw my objection. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-nazi-leader-in-southwest-killed-by-10-year-old-son/580717/49 "2011-05-06T16:51:13Z")
Wow. Not that I disagree with **Miller** and **mhendo** on **LP** ’s nature, but it all seems really out of place for this thread. If **LP** had expressed sympathy for the victim, or said something like “a great man died,” it would be wholly justified. But all he did was express surprise at the act (which, even taking out the neo-Nazi aspect, is _definitely_ unusual) and wondered what could have happened to drive the kid to do it. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-nazi-leader-in-southwest-killed-by-10-year-old-son/580717/50 "2011-05-06T17:08:18Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > He thinks allowing non-white people into the country is actively destroying “white culture,” … Which it certainly is. And I specifically said Anglo-American culture. It is foolish to believe that Anglo-American civilization can be sustained without a white majority. > [@Miller](#): > > … and that people who don’t agree with him are race traitors … I don’t recall that I’ve ever used the term race traitor. I am, however, thoroughly disgusted with whites who think it’s alright for blacks, Hispanics and Asians to have strong racial identities and organize politically along racial lines, but horrifyingly evil for white people to do so. > [@Miller](#): > > Is he a neo-nazi? Probably not, although I wouldn’t put money on it. Is he a racist shitstain? Indubitably. Meh. I’m a realist. I don’t share your dumbass hippie fantasy about making America a beautiful, diverse multicultural rainbow, so I must be a racist shitstain. That’s not the reaction of a reasonable, open minded person. That’s the reaction of a fanatic who’s furious with someone for questioning his religion or political ideology. And I have no use for Nazis. They’re totalitarians, and I have no use for totalitarians. Not even the ones who preach peace, love and brotherhood. > [@Miller](#): > > Was **mhendo** ’s comment unfair to him? Not remotely. Particularly not by the standards of this forum. It was certainly unfair to me, as is your little tantrum here. You and Mhendo want to stone the heretic, that’s all. Now can we please restrict the thread to the topic at hand? ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-nazi-leader-in-southwest-killed-by-10-year-old-son/580717/51 "2011-05-06T17:12:46Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > _Hop on Pop. > Pop got Shot. > I shot Pop. > Pop got dropped._ I was going to go all Cat in the Hat on you, but due to time constraints I’ll fall back on Dick and Jain… See Pop See Pop drop Drop, Pop, drop. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-nazi-leader-in-southwest-killed-by-10-year-old-son/580717/52 "2011-05-06T17:26:55Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > And, if the race stuff isn’t enough, how about this for good measure (directed at another Doper):If you think i’ve somehow managed to misrepresent his arguments by pulling quotes out of context, you’re welcome to click on the links and go to the threads. I think his position is pretty clear.Why cheap? You’re quite right, you haven’t misrepesented my views at all. You just can’t seem to come up with any rational response to them. Explain it all over again, Mhendo. Why is okay for a Hispanic to want America to be more brown but shockingly immoral for an Anglo to want it to be more white? > [@mhendo](#): > > But there is, to my knowledge, only one person on this whole board who i would consider a hypocrite for starting a thread to rant against a white supremacist, and that person is **LonesomePolecat**. I wasn’t ranting against a white supremacist. I have no use for totalitarians, whatever their specific ideology may be. His politics are not the issue here, it’s the cruelty to his family and son. > [@mhendo](#): > > As for “nasty,” well i’m struggling to think of anything i could say that would be nastier than the type of arguments that make up his stock-in-trade. Gosh, I’m so impressed by your moral outrage. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-nazi-leader-in-southwest-killed-by-10-year-old-son/580717/53 "2011-05-06T17:43:39Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > You’re quite right, you haven’t misrepesented my views at all. You just can’t seem to come up with any rational response to them. Explain it all over again, Mhendo. Why is okay for a Hispanic to want America to be more brown but shockingly immoral for an Anglo to want it to be more white? In order for me to offer a response to that, you would have to demonstrate that Hispanics do, in fact, “want America to be more brown.” You have never managed to show this to be the case. > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > I wasn’t ranting against a white supremacist. I have no use for totalitarians, whatever their specific ideology may be. His politics are not the issue here, it’s the cruelty to his family and son. If his politics aren’t an issue, why did his politics constitute the very first words of your thread title? Why not “Abusive father killed by 10-year-old son.” Unless you think there might be a correlation between white supremacist beliefs and child abuse. Actually, you might be onto something there. > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Gosh, I’m so impressed by your moral outrage. It’s not really moral outrage. It’s simply a straightforward observation about your beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-nazi-leader-in-southwest-killed-by-10-year-old-son/580717/54 "2011-05-06T17:52:46Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > I can’t be the only one here who is familiar with [Letitia (pronounced LehTISHa) Cropley, the Dibley Poisioner](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letitia_Cropley#Characters). > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I can’t believe nobody has heard of [Laetitia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laetitia_Casta). For what it’s worth, I have never heard of either of them. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-nazi-leader-in-southwest-killed-by-10-year-old-son/580717/55 "2011-05-06T18:23:15Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Which it certainly is. And I specifically said Anglo-American culture. Huh. See, I’m white, lived my entire life in the U.S., and I have no idea what this is. Do you have to request an application? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-nazi-leader-in-southwest-killed-by-10-year-old-son/580717/56 "2011-05-07T00:22:43Z")
“White” is just too generic to even have a culture. In fact, I’d say there’s more diversity among white people themselves. There’s no “white culture”, because it’s too big of a group. Oh, and **LonesomePolecat** , what do you call a “tolitarian”? Do you mean you don’t have a problem with neo-Nazi beliefs, as long as they’re not wide-spread? Do you agree with them, generally? Or are you just a snippy little racist? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-nazi-leader-in-southwest-killed-by-10-year-old-son/580717/57 "2011-05-07T00:34:39Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Oh, and **LonesomePolecat** , what do you call a “tolitarian”? Do you mean you don’t have a problem with neo-Nazi beliefs, as long as they’re not wide-spread? When people are trying to point out the stupidity inherent in racism, it’s generally quite a task to elevate racism by offering up something as a contrast. But you have heroically managed. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-nazi-leader-in-southwest-killed-by-10-year-old-son/580717/58 "2011-05-07T01:35:21Z")
Back on topic. The Inland Empire is a tough place. Grinding poverty, lots of violent crime, and its usually generational (grandparent, parent & child are in a gang, for example). Violent crime among young people is more common than other areas, even in CA. The prosecutors try to find options other than CYA when they can, but often placement is an improvement on the home. ☹ I will be watching this case (hubby is a former prosecutor out that way) closely. It’s a tragedy for that child, and his younger sister as well. As for the “how the he’ll can mom lose custody to a Nazi?” part- the family court system out there is so fucking broken, Dahmer could get custody of a kid. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-nazi-leader-in-southwest-killed-by-10-year-old-son/580717/59 "2011-05-07T01:42:23Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > You mean like [Letitia Pate Evans](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lettie_Pate_Whitehead_Evans), the lady who founded the scholarship that sent me to college? I assure you, she was so white it would make your teeth hurt. I was thinking of Letaecia Knolleys, later mother of the Earl of Essex, Lady Dudley, and “The She-Wolf” to QEI. > **[Lettice Knollys](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lettice_Knollys)** > > Lettioce Knollys (/ˈnoʊlz/ NOHLZ, sometimes latinized as Laetitia, alias Lettice Devereux or Lettice Dudley or Lettice Blount), Countess of Essex and Countess of Leicester (8 November 1543 – 25 December 1634), was an English noblewoman and mother to the courtiers Robert Devereux, 2nd Earl of Essex, and Lady Penelope Rich. By her second marriage to Elizabeth I's favourite, Robert Dudley, Earl of Leicester, she incurred the Queen's unrelenting displeasure. > A grandniece of Elizabeth's mother, A... ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-nazi-leader-in-southwest-killed-by-10-year-old-son/580717/60 "2011-05-07T02:33:21Z")
[This](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letitia_Baldrige) is the only Letitia I’ve ever known of. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-nazi-leader-in-southwest-killed-by-10-year-old-son/580717.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neo-nazi-leader-in-southwest-killed-by-10-year-old-son/580717.md?page=4)