# Net Neutrality - Now a thing of the past? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 14, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-a-thing-of-the-past/678791 "2014-01-14T16:35:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-a-thing-of-the-past/678791/21 "2014-01-14T21:44:04Z")
Why shouldn’t the bandwidth hog watching YouTube and Netflix streaming movies pay more than the lurker just reading the SDMB? No different than the toll road owner charging more for vehicles with multiple axels and less for those with only two. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-a-thing-of-the-past/678791/22 "2014-01-14T21:46:10Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Let’s also be careful before freaking out here. The Court ruled that the FCC overstepped their bounds. Now, maybe this is a laughable proposition, but nothing is stopping Congress from passing a law making ISP’s “common carriers” and thus given FCC the ability to legally make this rule. That’s true, but thus far Congress has taken a fairly dim view of the FCC’s position regarding neutrality. They are unlikely to expand the FCC’s power in this way. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-a-thing-of-the-past/678791/23 "2014-01-14T21:50:26Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Do you have a cite for this? It seems to be the common perception but I don’t remember seeing any stats one way or another. I already provided a cite in the Great DEbates thread, but for the sake of completeness here it is again: [http://articles.latimes.com/2013/aug/23/business/la-fi-hiltzik-20130823](http://articles.latimes.com/2013/aug/23/business/la-fi-hiltzik-20130823) > [@](#): > > I believe that competition is the best guarantee for a neutral internet. Competition requires choice. Without any real choice, it’s a meaningless slogan. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-a-thing-of-the-past/678791/24 "2014-01-14T21:53:33Z")
> [@Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](#): > > Customers have been complaining since last summer that both have been throttled down (coincidentally, since Verizon bought Redbox last April or so). Verizon stoically denies these complaints, then quietly brings suit to challenge the FCC regulations - freeing them to choke out their competitors. Nice bullshit move there Verizon. Huh? When did Verizon acquire Redbox? I thought Redbox was owned by [the company that also owns Coinstar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outerwall,_Inc.). ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-a-thing-of-the-past/678791/25 "2014-01-14T21:55:19Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Why shouldn’t the bandwidth hog watching YouTube and Netflix streaming movies pay more than the lurker just reading the SDMB? No one has any issues with that. But why should a person streaming video from Netflix pay more than someone streaming video from their cable company’s streaming service? Why should someone using Skype pay more per minute than someone using their ISP’s proprietary VOIP service? That is the sort of behavior net neutrality is designed to prevent: discrimination (either in price or in allowed bandwidth allotted to the service) based not simply on the nature or the amount of data being used, but on the source of that data. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-a-thing-of-the-past/678791/26 "2014-01-14T23:00:14Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > But why should a person streaming video from Netflix pay more than someone streaming video from their cable company’s streaming service? Assuming you are buying your highspeed internet connection from your cable provider, they may want to charge you a higher price for using more internet bandwidth to stream on Netflix to incentivize you to use their pay per view service. You then have the option of switching internet service providers if you don’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-a-thing-of-the-past/678791/27 "2014-01-14T23:30:27Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Assuming you are buying your highspeed internet connection from your cable provider, they may want to charge you a higher price for using more internet bandwidth to stream on Netflix to incentivize you to use their pay per view service. You then have the option of switching internet service providers if you don’t like it. So instead I can go to my local DSL provider who will charge me more to use anything other than their PPV service? This is an improvement how? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-a-thing-of-the-past/678791/28 "2014-01-14T23:48:31Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > I seem to recall the cellular providers being really resistant to that, so I’m not sure how that bolsters your contention that the companies will do anything which doesn’t help lock in their market dominance. Of course they fought it, just like they’re fighting net neutrality. Either way they’re going to fight it but at least we have some success with competition laws. Why not try it with ISPs? > [@Lightnin](#): > > The best way to keep the internet neutral is to put it into the public’s hands, much like national forests. You mean the government’s hands (they will, after all, pass the laws). Aren’t you afraid of lobbying? What about the NSA? > [@artemis](#): > > Competition requires choice. Without any real choice, it’s a meaningless slogan. I posted a link that showed that 78% of Americans have a choice. Even so, if choice is a problem let’s foster more choice! > [@artemis](#): > > No one has any issues with that. But why should a person streaming video from Netflix pay more than someone streaming video from their cable company’s streaming service? Why should someone using Skype pay more per minute than someone using their ISP’s proprietary VOIP service? That is the sort of behavior net neutrality is designed to prevent: discrimination (either in price or in allowed bandwidth allotted to the service) based not simply on the nature or the amount of data being used, but on the source of that data. When I go to my local grocery store chain I pay less for store-brand items than national brand items. Is that any different? The reason I like competition over bureaucracy is that competition gives people a choice. Some people would rather pay less for an ISP that favors the ISP’s streaming service over others, some people would rather pay more for unfettered access. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-a-thing-of-the-past/678791/29 "2014-01-15T00:39:49Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Assuming you are buying your highspeed internet connection from your cable provider, they may want to charge you a higher price for using more internet bandwidth to stream on Netflix to incentivize you to use their pay per view service. Except that I’m not using more bandwidth by streaming on Netflix versus the cable provider’s streaming service (assuming the same movie at the same level of definition). > [@](#): > > You then have the option of switching internet service providers if you don’t like it. Not a real choice in most areas, unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-a-thing-of-the-past/678791/30 "2014-01-15T00:45:32Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I posted a link that showed that 78% of Americans have a choice. Even so, if choice is a problem let’s foster more choice! And as **Wolfpup** showed in the other thread, that ‘choice’ is more theoretical than actual in most cases. But I’d be all for more real choice, certainly. Breaking up the cable company monopoly/duopoly that prevails in most places would be a fine thing. > [@](#): > > When I go to my local grocery store chain I pay less for store-brand items than national brand items. Is that any different? Are all your local grocery stores engaging in price collusion? Do they point-blank refuse to carry brands other than their store brand or generic brand? Yes, the situation is different, because the options US consumers currently have when it comes to broadband access are vastly different. ---
**Author:** ![Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fool_in_the_Rain)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-a-thing-of-the-past/678791/31 "2014-01-15T11:02:50Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Huh? When did Verizon acquire Redbox? I thought Redbox was owned by [the company that also owns Coinstar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outerwall,_Inc.). Seems ‘bought’ is the wrong word, apologies. A joint venture between Verizon and Redbox, but the point of the post stands. > **[Verizon and Redbox Partner to Create Netflix Rival](https://thenextweb.com/news/verizon-and-redbox-enter-joint-venture-to-create-new-netflix-rival)** > > Verizon and Redbox have formed a joint venture to create a service capable of competing with Netflix. > [@](#): > > US mobile operator Verizon and DVD rental service Redbox today confirmed reports of a collaboration, announcing that the two companies have formed a joint venture to create a service capable of competing with Netflix. The separation of carriers and providers needs to happen, or we will all suffer in the end via higher prices, more expensive services, and less choices. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-a-thing-of-the-past/678791/32 "2014-01-15T12:40:47Z")
AEREO is so fucked right now. Well, it was nice while it lasted. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-a-thing-of-the-past/678791/33 "2014-01-15T13:46:49Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Of course they fought it, just like they’re fighting net neutrality. Either way they’re going to fight it but at least we have some success with competition laws. Why not try it with ISPs? \*We \*don’t necessarily have success with competition- but the ISPs _will_. This ruling is a complete victory for them, not for us. That’s why they fought so hard for it. They didn’t do it so they could give us better, or cheaper, service- they did it so they can make even more money. > [@Deeg](#): > > You mean the government’s hands (they will, after all, pass the laws). Aren’t you afraid of lobbying? What about the NSA? Of course I’m afraid of lobbying- how do you think this ruling passed? At least with NN, lobbyists have to buy politicians to do crap like this. As for the NSA, is it really your contention that eliminating Net Neutrality will stop the NSA from using the internet to spy on us? How’s that work, exactly? Furthermore, I Would you like to read more? Then click here to upgrade to Verizon’s “Full Forum Pass” today for only $10/month! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-a-thing-of-the-past/678791/34 "2014-01-15T14:01:38Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Let’s also be careful before freaking out here. The Court ruled that the FCC overstepped their bounds. Now, maybe this is a laughable proposition, but nothing is stopping Congress from passing a law making ISP’s “common carriers” and thus given FCC the ability to legally make this rule. Congress? Pass a LAW? A GOOD law? :rolleyes: Surely you jest! ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-a-thing-of-the-past/678791/35 "2014-01-15T15:12:25Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > That’s not a voice of sanity, it’s a voice of someone who doesn’t really know what the DC Circuit does. Pray tell, enlighten us. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-a-thing-of-the-past/678791/36 "2014-01-15T16:04:11Z")
Politically speaking, there is hope for Congress, because I’m sure that there are big corporations (Netflix, Yoohoo, Google, Facebook) who don’t want to be paying for bandwidth they now get for free. So for Congress it will be a matter of “whose big bribe to accept?” rather than “who’s giving out the big bribes?” Democracy in action under Citizens United! ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-a-thing-of-the-past/678791/37 "2014-01-15T17:19:03Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > Pray tell, enlighten us. The DC Circuit is the appeals court that hears a large portion of appeals stemming from administrative actions of regulatory agencies located in DC. (Which is a lot of them, including the FCC.) So their decisions are binding on regulatory agencies and are thus of national importance, and are not limited by the geographic jurisdiction of the circuit. This is why the DC Circuit is considered the most prominent and prestigious federal judgeship in the land, except for the Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-a-thing-of-the-past/678791/38 "2014-01-15T22:30:25Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I believe that ensuring there is viable competition for ISPs will have a better result than government regulations. Which means you’ll either have A) government owned and maintained backbones (Tier 1 and Tier 2) that sell freight to any ISP at standard pricing, or B) multiple ISPs running redundant fiber to every single home in the US. Both would probably ensure lively competition, but the costs to build that infrastructure is going to be passed along to the consumer somehow. In one case the government is going to spend a shitload of money to own, build and maintain the backbone (probably recovered by the fees and ultimately profitable over time, but still) and in the other the ISP are going to have to raise exorbitant amount of money to reach parity with the big guys today, money they’d have to recover in the form of subscription fees. Right now regulation is the right answer. It worked eventually for railroads and telcos, I suspect it’ll be fine with the internet too…at least until something better than fiber comes along. Unless you want an internet that is managed the way the interstate system is… ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-a-thing-of-the-past/678791/39 "2014-01-16T05:17:38Z")
The encyclopedia is not the same when Comcast denies you “M” and “S” ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-a-thing-of-the-past/678791/40 "2014-01-16T06:30:55Z")
Out of curiosity, is there any way whatsoever that action like folks here are fearing could possibly be interpreted as de facto control of content, thus making the ISPs legally liable for whatever content they do allow through? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-a-thing-of-the-past/678791.md?page=1)