# Net neutrality: now what? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 22, 2017, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-what/802370 "2017-11-22T04:10:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-what/802370/161 "2017-11-29T00:54:08Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Remember not to mess up the ‘easily’ part of this. Fumbling that could really jack up your whole plan. But it’s so easy! Anyone can do it! Look at Google 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-what/802370/162 "2017-11-29T01:06:51Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > I gather that the December 14 action takes place at a meeting of the Broadband Deployment Advisory Committee (??) of the FCC. Or is it some other subset of the FCC, it’s primary movers and shakers or something? > > Without urging anyone to any specific action, I shall mention that it is my own inclination to contact the individuals who would be in attendance, the decision-makers who have the direct say-so. > > Best I can find on the Broadband Deployment Advisory Committee is [this page](https://www.publicintegrity.org/2017/08/11/21056/who-sits-broadband-deployment-advisory-committee) but note the lack of direct telephone numbers. If anyone has a clearer sense on who should be called, if a person wished to call, and could direct me to that information, I would find that useful. > > Apologies to the mods if this is too close to being a call to action. I’m just trying to facilitate my own ability to do action. Found wandering about the web: > [@](#): > > You can email all five leaders of the FCC to express your support for Net Neutrality. Here are the email addresses you need to know—the Republicans are the ones who want to dismantle Net Neutrality. > •Ajit Pai, Chairman (Republican) - [Ajit.Pai@fcc.gov](mailto:Ajit.Pai@fcc.gov) > •Mignon Clyburn, Commissioner (Democract) - [Mignon.Clyburn@fcc.gov](mailto:Mignon.Clyburn@fcc.gov) > •Michael O’Rielly, Commissioner (Republican) - Mike.O’Rielly@fcc.gov > •Brendan Carr, Commissioner (Republican) - [Brendan.Carr@fcc.gov](mailto:Brendan.Carr@fcc.gov) > •Jessica Rosenworcel, Commissioner (Democrat) - [Jessica.Rosenworcel@fcc.gov](mailto:Jessica.Rosenworcel@fcc.gov) Emails sent by me… ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-what/802370/163 "2017-11-29T01:37:20Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Do you have something against DSL? 😕 I did a quick search, and [here](https://www.highspeedinternet.com/ca/san-diego) are the top 18 providers in San Diego. Looks to me as if AT&T has a higher rating. Unless for some reason you are only wanting broadband cable as your only option. Personally, I get fine bandwidth through my home DSL connection and as my only broadband choice in my area is Comcast, which I hate with the fire of 10,000 suns, I’m fine with my choices. If I could get proper DSL service, I would have told you. Did you think I was lying just to try and make a point about net neutrality? First, the Time-Warner (spectrum) option listed on your linked site is not available in my region of San Diego, as I said quite clearly in my previous post. Even if i were willing to pay $1000 a month, it simply is not offered. Second, whatever your linked site says, the fastest service that AT&T offers to my building is 1.5Mbps. Just to satisfy myself of this, I just got on a web chat with an AT&T rep and asked about service, and the rep confirmed that the best package they can offer me is 1.5Mbps. As i said, in this day and age, that might as well be dial-up. I have no idea why their service here is so shitty, but i’m smack in the middle of a city neighborhood, so i imagine that i’m not the only one in this situation. Thirdly, the New Edge Networks DSL site on your linked page no longer exists. Clicking on it got me redirected to Earthlink. Out of curiosity, I had a web chat with an Earthlink rep, and they offer no DSL service at all to my location. All they could offer was a HughesNet satellite internet service, which is also one of the options listed on your linked site. Leave aside the fact that i don’t even want a satellite service, because for internet it’s a pretty unreliable technology. The HughesNet service offers 25Mbps down and 3Mbps up (about half what i’m getting now), but full speed is only available for the first 20GB of traffic per month. After that, speeds are throttled to 1 Mbps — again, might as well be dial-up. Under my current Cox cable plan, i nominally get 50 Mbps down and 10 Mbps up (in practice, usually about 36 down/8 up) and 1024 GB (1 terabyte) of traffic. So, twice the speed and 50 times the data. I get more data per day from Cox than i would get per month from HughesNet. The HughesNet plan is not only about the same price as my Cox plan, for a vastly inferior service, but it requires a clear view of the southern sky (don’t think my balcony would really meet this requirement), would require the set-up of a satellite dish on my balcony, and would also require me to pay another $15 per month for modem rental, and a 2-year commitment with a $400 early termination fee. I guess that if all that qualifies as competition, then yeah, i got competition out the wazoo here in one of America’s largest and most prosperous cites. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-what/802370/164 "2017-11-29T02:38:10Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Are you dissing books? :mad: > What’ll actually happen is that the internet will become so crappy that _some_ people (the “If I can’t get decent quality streaming or my e-mail why exactly am I still paying Comcast any money?” types) will get so pissed they’ll go full medieval. But the vast, vast majority will recognize that the collective of ISPs has them by the nuts and they have no recourse - well, okay, some people will beg for net neutrality to be reinstated, but your type will have no choice but to suck it up and say “please sir, can I have some more?” ISPs don’t need a repeal of nn to make their service shit. They could just stop investing in their network and pocket that money instead. Why haven’t they done that? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-what/802370/165 "2017-11-29T02:47:04Z")
Ummm… ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-what/802370/166 "2017-11-29T02:53:28Z")
So, there’s no legitimate reason for overturning net neutrality, then? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-what/802370/167 "2017-11-29T03:48:43Z")
Making shit tons of money is a very legitimate reason… It’s a stinky reason, but it’s certainly legitimate. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-what/802370/168 "2017-11-29T06:05:24Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Consumers that use their stove a lot, for example, will buy Kenmore to take advantage of the lower electricity cost and those that don’t will buy Maytag. Plus, it gives Kenmore incentive to optimize their energy usage. They can make refrigerators with a big thermal sink to take advantage of cheaper overnight electricity costs. Everyone wins. Only for values of “win” which are meaningless and absurd. That nonsense might fly in the self-denying philosophy of an ascetic of some bizarre Eastern religion, but we are talking about economics. And even the most Pollyannish believer in Pareto-efficiency and anarcho-capitalism should be able to understand that a scenario in which winners are losers are described in explicit fashion is not an “everyone wins” scenario. ---
**Author:** ![AI\_Proofreader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@AI\_Proofreader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AI_Proofreader)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-what/802370/169 "2017-11-29T07:24:40Z")
> [@treis](#): > > ISPs don’t need a repeal of nn to make their service shit. They could just stop investing in their network and pocket that money instead. Why haven’t they done that? BAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Okay, if anyone needed proof there was no point in continuing to debate this issue with you… ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-what/802370/170 "2017-11-29T08:01:54Z")
Will you be able to get a VPN so you can internet freely? ---
**Author:** ![AI\_Proofreader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@AI\_Proofreader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AI_Proofreader)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-what/802370/171 "2017-11-29T08:32:53Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Will you be able to get a VPN so you can internet freely? What I’ve been wondering is whether the ISPs will choose to IP-ban VPN services. Of course, even if they don’t, we’re still talking an extra $10 a month or more paid to the VPN simply to keep something close to the quality you already have (I say close to because even the best VPN will be slightly slower than connecting to services without one). ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-what/802370/172 "2017-11-29T08:35:48Z")
At that point - banning VPNs - surely it would be censorship? ---
**Author:** ![AI\_Proofreader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@AI\_Proofreader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AI_Proofreader)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-what/802370/173 "2017-11-29T08:42:48Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > At that point - banning VPNs - surely it would be censorship? Yes, but with net neutrality axed, they’ll argue it’s their right to do so. Nay, their duty - they have to block VPNs to prevent piracy! Heck, they even heard people are transmitting child pornography over VPNs. You don’t support child pornography, do you? Of _course_ it has nothing to do with wanting to be able to see what services their customers are using so they can throttle the connections or charge more… ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-what/802370/174 "2017-11-29T11:38:20Z")
> [@treis](#): > > IFeel free to address my actual point whenever you would like. Your point was that Google Fiber proves there’s competition. I demonstrated that it failed, so your point also fails. Whenever you raise a point, I offer a rebuttal, which you ignore and then bring back some other weak point. After a half dozen rounds of this, you return to the first point like we never talked about it at all. It’s clear you aren’t familiar with the technology, or the laws, or the markets, or the economic concepts that are in play here, so you don’t understand how the market forces work. It would appear you’re not a very discriminating consumer of digital products, so you are unaware or unconcerned of all the different ways you could possibly get screwed by a company. It basically looks like you’re reading pages out of Ayn Rand’s Book of Magical Things, so I think we’re done here. Or at least I am. Have a nice day. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-what/802370/175 "2017-11-29T14:05:04Z")
> [@Settimo](#): > > I can understand the desire to charge “per bit”, ie rates proportional to data used. Is there a way to achieve this without the stomach-turning possibility of my ISP censoring content it doesn’t like? Or as **Heracles** posted in #103, the ISP gets a favor from the administration, and decides a little quid pro is in order, so it decides to throttle voices of dissent? I don’t think that ISPs are necessarily interested in micromanaging every website you visit. I think it’s more likely that they want to protect their turf, particularly since some of these companies are invested now in the production side of entertainment. Even to that extent, there’s the production side of a media/telecom conglomerate and then there’s the rest of the business. The might put Netflix at a disadvantage in some ways but they wouldn’t want to piss off all of their subscribers, for fear that somewhere down the line Netflix can figure out another method of distribution or another tactic to get around them, meanwhile alienating lots of subscribers and putting pressure on congress to do something to stop them from abusing their powers. It’s the other concern that you mentioned that worries me more. What if Trump wants to lean on these companies to get a particular message across? That’s now a very distinct possibility that media and other companies have to think about. We’re already witnessing a sitting president – a Republican no less – using the office of the presidency to block a media merger in an overt attempt to punish the CNN network. He has also threatened MSNBC - with a different type of action but still a threat nonetheless. This president is not above using presidential power to reward corporate friends and punish corporate enemies, particularly as it applies to media. That’s something companies, particularly large ones that are concerned with mergers and acquisitions, can’t just ignore. Moreover, while we’re having a fit over net neutrality’s demise, there’s another action that potentially even more ominous, which is the move to allow more consolidation of traditional media. Combined with more traditional media consolidation, the real problem with Net Neutrality is that it concentrates power, which could conceivably allow the president to concentrate his own power. And that’s a huge problem given the state of affairs we have now. ---
**Author:** ![Khendrask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3e96dc/32.png) [@Khendrask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khendrask)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-what/802370/176 "2017-11-29T14:13:09Z")
Folks, please remember, it isn’t just the end of line ISP serving you that will be affected. When you are streaming from Amazon, or Netflix, or any other high volume streaming service, there isn’t a wire that connects you to them. Or a wire that connects your ISP to them. The stream passes through many many many many different providers. With the abandonment of NN, it doesn’t even matter if 20 providers in the chain do nothing; only one has to be the holdup. Like a traffic accident on a highway. One lane gets blocked off, but traffic comes to a standstill. Dumping NN is a completely asinine move, that only serves to generate more telecom money to flow towards campaigns to keep the crooks in office longer. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-what/802370/177 "2017-11-29T14:22:27Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Poof! A wizard appears and fills the sky with fucking balloons to solve a completely artificial problem. But as absurd as it is, nobody in this thread has offered any better rationale abolishing net neutrality, so congratulations. Here’s a balloon. It’s simple [ABC’s baby](https://www.wired.com/story/google-closer-to-using-balloons-for-telecom-in-puerto-rico/)…no wizard needed. You might want to actually read my post, though…I didn’t offer this as a rationale to abolish NN, in fact, I said it was a mistake. What I did say is that if the ISPs push things they are going to find out something that you might want to think about as well…which is that their current land-based technology is out of date and there are alternatives out there that could easily replace the current system if someone thought it worthwhile to invest in them. Here, have [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Loon) balloon… ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-what/802370/178 "2017-11-29T14:28:29Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Second, whatever your linked site says, the fastest service that AT&T offers to my building is 1.5Mbps. Just to satisfy myself of this, I just got on a web chat with an AT&T rep and asked about service, and the rep confirmed that the best package they can offer me is 1.5Mbps. As i said, in this day and age, that might as well be dial-up. I have no idea why their service here is so shitty, but i’m smack in the middle of a city neighborhood, so i imagine that i’m not the only one in this situation. Well, DSL is based on the old telco infrastructure, so I guess if you have very old infrastructure that would explain it. You basically have worst service than my own in a small town in New Mexico. Hard to believe but there you go. > [@](#): > > If I could get proper DSL service, I would have told you. Did you think I was lying just to try and make a point about net neutrality? No, I figured you had a thing for broadband and didn’t want to look into the DSL options. I know some people who won’t even talk about DSL, so figured it was something like that. I just did a quick Google search and it SEEMED like there were other options. If you really say there aren’t any that are better than 1.5mb/s then I believe you. It’s just hard to believe in a modern Californian city that you still have such shitty service when I have more options for better service in a small New Mexican town. We are usually light years behind even rural California. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-what/802370/179 "2017-11-29T18:35:45Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Your point was that Google Fiber proves there’s competition. No, it wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-what/802370/180 "2017-11-29T18:36:53Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Well, DSL is based on the old telco infrastructure, so I guess if you have very old infrastructure that would explain it. You basically have worst service than my own in a small town in New Mexico. Hard to believe but there you go. > > No, I figured you had a thing for broadband and didn’t want to look into the DSL options. I know some people who won’t even talk about DSL, so figured it was something like that. I just did a quick Google search and it SEEMED like there were other options. If you really say there aren’t any that are better than 1.5mb/s then I believe you. It’s just hard to believe in a modern Californian city that you still have such shitty service when I have more options for better service in a small New Mexican town. We are usually light years behind even rural California. There’s a pretty good chance that it’s the building’s wiring that prevents the higher DSL speeds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-what/802370.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/net-neutrality-now-what/802370.md?page=10)