# Netanyahu: we caught Iran red-handed! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 30, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373 "2018-04-30T20:05:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/61 "2018-05-01T20:37:47Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > My point is, despite Israel blowing up their nuclear plants and killing their nuclear scientists, Iran chose to pursue a nuclear development program. Why? Perhaps it’s easier and more strategically advantageous than trying to get someone to sell you nuclear weapons. But they were also dissuaded from pursuing a nuclear weapons program, as best as we can tell. And it could have been all that foreign meddling in their program that resulted in Iran shelving those plans for obtaining a nuclear weapon (seems like nobody has a clear answer to that, though). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/62 "2018-05-01T21:17:43Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Well, North Korea surely must be watching this back and forth on Iran, and questioning whether the U.S. is capable of standing by an agreement. Possibly North Korea will agree to a lot of things to get some short-term benefits and the instant the U.S. does anything concrete (or anything that looks sufficiently concrete for propaganda purposes) to alter the Iran deal, North Korea will instantly renege on everything and say the treatment of Iran proves the U.S. cannot be trusted. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/63 "2018-05-02T01:08:43Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > But they were also dissuaded from pursuing a nuclear weapons program, as best as we can tell. And it could have been all that foreign meddling in their program that resulted in Iran shelving those plans for obtaining a nuclear weapon (seems like nobody has a clear answer to that, though). That’s an argument that Israel’s ambassador to the US made. That the concerted efforts of Israeli, US and various other intelligence agencies have played a large part in keeping Iran in successfully developing a nuclear weapon over the past 20 years or so. Of course, he also credited Bibi’s PM-ship for 12 of those years as playing a significant contributing factor in keeping Iran from achieving their nuclear ambitions. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/64 "2018-05-02T01:19:37Z")
Israel has nuclear weapons in some isolated desert underground facility. Perhaps the Iranians do, too. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/65 "2018-05-02T01:51:08Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Possibly North Korea will agree to a lot of things to get some short-term benefits and the instant the U.S. does anything concrete (or anything that looks sufficiently concrete for propaganda purposes) to alter the Iran deal, North Korea will instantly renege on everything and say the treatment of Iran proves the U.S. cannot be trusted. versus giving them a nuclear power plant or plane loads of cash in the dark of night? Great diplomacy. Rocket man needs to know he’s a dead man if he doesn’t make nice with South Korea. China needs to know the shit will hit the fan if NK gets stupid. It’s time they stepped up and pulled the strings on their puppet regime. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/66 "2018-05-02T12:57:14Z")
I wonder how China would view NK trading it’s nuclear weapons and the end of the Korean War for a couple of nuclear power plants and a lot of food? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/67 "2018-05-02T13:37:01Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > They don’t want Iran to have nukes any more than they want there to be a lot of unwanted births out of wedlock. By abortion analogy, it’s like banning abortion \*and \*opposing contraception \*and \*also not wanting there to be many unwanted babies - the only way that happens is for there to be no unwanted pregnancy conceptions in the first place. IOW, in the abstract, they don’t want unwanted births out of wedlock, but they want all this other stuff even more that inevitably leads to unwanted births out of wedlock. Maybe not the same as wanting unwanted births out of wedlock, but close. > [@](#): > > They want no Iranian nukes, but on American terms. The JCPOA deal is perceived as being “too nice” to Iran (and possibly allowing Iran to cheat and get nukes anyway, but that’s a different issue.) Republicans want Iran to 1) have no nukes, \*and \*2) get treated harshly in the process \*and \*3) submit to harsh treatment and obediently refrain from nuke-building. Which is to say, sure, in the abstract, they don’t want Iran to have nukes, but they want all this other stuff even more which will result in Iran having nukes. Only in this case, they wouldn’t even get any ‘other stuff’ (unless one counts the opportunity to strut around as if they’ll keep Iran from having nukes simply by being so tough and macho), just the deal ends and Iran gets nukes. IOW, they want Iran to get nukes. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/68 "2018-05-02T13:41:35Z")
Didn’t Bibi swear up and down that the Iraqis had WMDs? I get the impression that Bibi really wants a war to destroy the Iranian regime, but if he gets it, what then? See how well that worked in Iraq. See how well backing rebels worked in Syria. One doesn’t solve a theoretical problem by creating a real one. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/69 "2018-05-02T14:02:44Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Didn’t Bibi swear up and down that the Iraqis had WMDs? Not that I remember. At the time he was Minister of Finance in the Sharon administration, which generally refused to either publicly confirm or refute Bush’s claims. (Little-known historical note: not long after the U.S. invasion Ariel Shron quietly fired the entire Iraq desk at the Mossad, allegedly for failing to provide an accurate assessment on the state of Iraqi WMDs) > [@BobLibDem](#): > > Didn’t Bibi swear up and down that the Iraqis had WMDs? I get the impression that Bibi really wants a war to destroy the Iranian regime, but if he gets it, what then? See how well that worked in Iraq. See how well backing rebels worked in Syria. One doesn’t solve a theoretical problem by creating a real one. [/QUOTE] As I noted above, I don’t think Bibi wants an actual full-scale war. He likes to rattle his saber, not draw it. Besides, if the Iranian thread were removed, what reason would would people have to vote for him? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/70 "2018-05-02T14:40:08Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Not that I remember. At the time he was Minister of Finance in the Sharon administration, which generally refused to either publicly confirm or refute Bush’s claims. > **[Benjamin Netanyahu's not-so-prescient 2002 message to Congress about Iraq](https://www.vox.com/2015/2/26/8114221/netanyahu-iraq-2002)** > > Vox is a general interest news site for the 21st century. Its mission: to help everyone understand our complicated world, so that we can all help shape it. In text, video and audio, our reporters explain politics, policy, world affairs, technology,... > [@](#): > > Indeed, Netanyahu was a rather aggressive Iraq hawk back in the early 2000s. “There is no question whatsoever that Saddam is seeking, is working, is advancing towards to the development of nuclear weapons,” Netanyahu said in 2002 testimony to Congress. “Once Saddam has nuclear weapons, the terror network will have nuclear weapons…” > > “If you take out Saddam, Saddam’s regime, I guarantee you that it will have enormous positive reverberations on the region,” Netanyahu claimed. “And I think that people sitting right next door in Iran, young people, and many others, will say the time of such regimes, of such despots is gone.” Not to mention… > **[Netanyahu in 1992: Iran close to having nuclear bomb](https://www.juancole.com/2012/09/netanyahu-in-1992-iran-close-to-having-nuclear-bomb.html)** > > Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu is trapped in reflection theory. He was allegedly himself involved in illegally smuggling nuclear triggers out of the US, and he assumes that Iran desperately wants a nuclear weapon as well. But Ayatollah Ali... > [@](#): > > 1992: Israeli member of parliament Binyamin Netanyahu predicts that Iran was “3 to 5 years” from having a nuclear weapon. > > 1992: Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres predicts an Iranian nuclear warhead by 1999 to French TV. > > 1995: The New York Times quotes US and Israeli officials saying that Iran would have the bomb by 2000. > > 1998: Donald Rumsfeld tells Congress that Iran could have an intercontinental ballistic missile that could hit the US by 2003. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/71 "2018-05-02T15:04:22Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > [Benjamin Netanyahu's not-so-prescient 2002 message to Congress about Iraq - Vox](https://www.vox.com/2015/2/26/8114221/netanyahu-iraq-2002) > > Not to mention… > [Netanyahu in 1992: Iran close to having nuclear bomb](https://www.juancole.com/2012/09/netanyahu-in-1992-iran-close-to-having-nuclear-bomb.html) Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! The story says everybody should have stopped taking these bozos seriously well before now. Something’s not working here. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/72 "2018-05-02T15:27:01Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! > > The story says everybody should have stopped taking these bozos seriously well before now. Something’s not working here. :mad: At least he has lengthened the timeframe for Iran to obtain a nuclear weapon from 3-5 years in the 1990s to 7 years under the JCPOA. That’s progress. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/73 "2018-05-02T15:38:37Z")
How many Friedman Units is that? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/74 "2018-05-02T15:46:35Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Didn’t Bibi swear up and down that the Iraqis had WMDs? I get the impression that Bibi really wants a war to destroy the Iranian regime, but if he gets it, what then? Bibi’s not the only one who wants that - [John Bolton has been banging that drum](https://theintercept.com/2018/03/23/heres-john-bolton-promising-regime-change-iran-end-2018/) too. This is the same delusion that got us into Iraq, only worse. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/75 "2018-05-03T11:26:40Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I always assumed that’s why we wanted the deal with Iran. They wanted nuclear weapons, had a secret program to develop same, and we wanted them to stop. Hence, the deal. > > If Trump blows up the deal, I think we can assume Iran will go back to developing nuclear weapons again. Developing then again? Iran never stopped developing nuclear weapons or increasing the range of its missiles to deliver them. Obama’s deal was a bad one. It just gave Iran a nation who makes no bones about funding terrorism even worse. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/76 "2018-05-03T11:28:58Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Didn’t Bibi swear up and down that the Iraqis had WMDs? I get the impression that Bibi really wants a war to destroy the Iranian regime, but if he gets it, what then? See how well that worked in Iraq. See how well backing rebels worked in Syria. One doesn’t solve a theoretical problem by creating a real one. Iraq had WMD’s, they used chemical weapons and poison gas on the Kurds, then buried the rest of them in non metallic containers in a nation the size of Texas that is full of sand. Its not only Bibi. Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt fear what Iran might do as well. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/77 "2018-05-03T11:37:17Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Developing then again? Iran never stopped developing nuclear weapons or increasing the range of its missiles to deliver them. Wow! You should totally provide the UN inspectors with this information and the name of the reliable source that gave it to you, because they would definitely want to know about it. And also about those giant metal containers of chemical weapons in Iraq. I mean, I’m assuming you must have a pretty solid lead to be contradicting the views of most of the world’s experts on the region. > [@](#): > > Obama’s deal was a bad one. It just gave Iran a nation who makes no bones about funding terrorism even worse. I’d explain to you the dozen ways in which both these sentences are wrong, but given that you haven’t even come back to your tariffs thread I’m not sure it’s worth it. If you actually care, I’ll leave it to [John Oliver to explain it to you](https://slate.com/culture/2018/04/john-oliver-explains-the-iran-deal-takes-out-sean-hannity-ad-video.html). ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/78 "2018-05-03T12:02:01Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Iraq […] then buried the rest of them in non metallic containers in a nation the size of Texas that is full of sand. Cite ? Or is that just a silly conspiracy theory-ish rationalization for why none whatsoever were found over the 10 years of US occupation of the country ; because absence of evidence is evidence of evidence where you live ? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/79 "2018-05-03T12:46:56Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Developing then again? Iran never stopped developing nuclear weapons … [Not according to the intelligence community under George W. Bush.](https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/Newsroom/Press%20Releases/2007%20Press%20Releases/20071203_release.pdf) > [@](#): > > …then buried the rest of them in non metallic containers in a nation the size of Texas that is full of sand. I thought Alex Jones and Fox News had proof that they were all shipped to Syria using a huge convoy of semi-trailers. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/80 "2018-05-03T14:46:58Z")
Yes, but then they sent them back. See, if they remain in a constant loop of transport, nobody actually “has” them. And, as you might expect, the “…huge convoy of semi-trailers…” is a battered Ford pickup truck. Specifically, the glove compartment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373.md?page=5)