# Netanyahu: we caught Iran red-handed! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 30, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373 "2018-04-30T20:05:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/141 "2018-05-09T22:10:14Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Meh. I think on that he is ahead of the curve actually. State-State relationships are going the way of the dodo, the new world, agreements and relationships are with individuals and will be renegotiated when said individual is out. That is hardly conducive to long terms relations between countries. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/142 "2018-05-09T22:30:48Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Meh. I think on that he is ahead of the curve actually. State-State relationships are going the way of the dodo, the new world, agreements and relationships are with individuals and will be renegotiated when said individual is out. I assume that’s how things are going to be at the corporate level, too? So when a CEO steps down, all of their company’s contracts are cancelled and all of its debts are forgiven. Seems legit. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/143 "2018-05-09T22:42:16Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Oddly enough, that’s one saying that only works as a metaphor. Actual books should definitely be judged by their covers. Given the extent to which book covers typically reflect the publisher’s idea of what will sell copies rather than what the author’s trying to say, I don’t understand why you would think this. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/144 "2018-05-09T23:00:13Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’m trying to understand Bebe’s logic in offering this narrative. > > If he doesn’t want Iran to develop a nuclear weapon, why would he want to blow up the current nuclear deal? He may think it doesn’t go far enough, but he has no assurance that a new deal will be forthcoming or significantly better. Why take this chance? Does he think Iran is continuing to develop a nuclear weapon? My hypothesis is that Bibi, being American-educated, thinks not completely in terms of what is actually good for Israel, but more in terms of what the dominant power structure in the USA and UK want. And that has always been an Iran under the English thumb, where British Petroleum can take its oil for beans. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/145 "2018-05-09T23:10:34Z")
Alessan: > [@](#): > > Bibi’s alliance with the GOP is several steps beyond any other Israeli PM. Previous Prime Ministers at least made a pretense of objectivity regarding U.S. politics; their official position was always that Israel’s relationship was with the United States as a whole, not with any specific party. Not Netanyahu - he’s the Republicans’ creature through and through. I’d say any pretense of objectivity ended when Bill Clinton sent his top advisors to help defeat Bibi in his campaign against Ehud Barak, but maybe that’s just my perspective as an American. And, as much as anyone might wish for American support for Israel to not break down along party lines, it is something that has happened very much without having anything to do with Bibi. Support for the Palestinian position on matters has always been stronger among the American left than the right. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/146 "2018-05-09T23:39:21Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > In a nutshell, that’s pretty much what he said in the CNN interview today. He wants to scuttle the deal in order for the hard fiscal sanctions to be brought back in, limiting Iran’s influence in the M.E., especially in close proximity to Israel, i.e.: Syria, Lebanon, Gaza, etc. Oh, you mean places that don’t belong to Israel but in which Israel’s militants and expansionists expect to exert power? Those places? ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/147 "2018-05-10T00:33:40Z")
I feel like Netanyahu has been in charge of Israel for like 25 years. It’s always kind of fucked up when someone is in a position of power for that long. It always suggests autocratic/corrupt tendencies to me. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/148 "2018-05-10T01:22:09Z")
He has not been in power that long. He had a first stint as Prime Minister from 1996 - 1999, and after a decade out of power, has been Prime Minister since 2009. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/149 "2018-05-10T05:34:28Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Iran has been trying to entrench itself in Syria for some time now, and Israel has been trying to stop it. There have been a number of Israeli airstrikes against Iranian or Iranian-backed positions in the past few months, including one just yesterday. If a war breaks out, it won’t be primarily because of the nuclear deal - but the U.S.'s departure from it may be the spark. Yes, Israel has been carrying out attacks in Syria for some time now. This wasn’t in the news in the west? Iran vowed to retaliate and now they have. So, if this does turn into a full scale war, let’s not forget who started it. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/150 "2018-05-10T14:27:36Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > That is hardly conducive to long terms relations between countries. I believe the solution is: if one wants a lasting agreement with the US, make it a treaty, approved by the Senate, not some side deal with the current president. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/151 "2018-05-10T14:34:20Z")
Things got a little intense last night: [Israel strikes ‘nearly all’ Iranian infrastructure in Syria after Iran rocket attack, minister says](http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/05/10/israel-strikes-nearly-all-iranian-infrastructure-in-syria-after-iran-rocket-attack-minister-says.html) > [@](#): > > Israel and Iran reached the brink of full-scale war Thursday as the Islamic Republic’s unprovoked rocket attack on soldiers in the Golan Heights gave way to an unprecedented Israeli counter-strike that targeted nearly all Iranian infrastructure inside Syria > > The Israeli Defense Force said it deployed fighter jets and used missiles to strike a range of targets, including military compounds, intelligence operations and munitions warehouses, a statement read. The strikes were Israel’s largest air operation in Syria since the 1973 war. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/152 "2018-05-10T14:36:42Z")
Are the various Free Trade Agreements that the US has with other countries treaties that have been approved by the Senate? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/153 "2018-05-10T14:43:09Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Are the various Free Trade Agreements that the US has with other countries treaties that have been approved by the Senate? I don’t know about all of them. I believe NAFTA is actually a law, passed by Congress, and would require an amendment or repeal passed by Congress to actually change / withdraw from it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/154 "2018-05-10T14:46:19Z")
For the record, Congress did vote (overwhelmingly, in fact) to give themselves the power to review the JCPOA: > **[Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act of 2015](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Nuclear_Agreement_Review_Act_of_2015)** > > The Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act of 2015 (INARA) (H.R. 1191, Pub.L 114–17) is a bill that was passed by the US Congress in May 2015, giving Congress the right to review any agreement reached in the P5+1 talks with Iran aiming to prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons. > The bill passed in the Senate by a 98–1 vote (only Tom Cotton voted against), and then passed in the House by a vote of 400–25 on May 14. President Barack Obama threatened to veto the bill, but eventually a version arrive... They specifically put in the terms that would give Congress the power to overturn the act (e.g. to vote a “resolution of disapproval”), and in later votes, failed to muster enough votes to avoid a veto of this resolution of disapproval. So Congress specifically acted with respect to the JCPOA, and specifically laid out the terms and processes under which President Obama was empowered to make the deal, and specifically laid out the terms and processes under which Congress could overturn it. And they failed to overturn it, by the processes Congress laid out. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/155 "2018-05-10T15:01:15Z")
And we can see now why finagling some setup where a filibustered resolution of disapproval isn’t as good as ratification of a treaty or passage of a law that would require Congressional action to undo. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/156 "2018-05-10T15:01:57Z")
It seems to me that the Act requires Congress to pass a law reinstating sanctions. Am I reading it right? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/157 "2018-05-10T15:24:43Z")
It’s interesting to me that a lot of #NeverTrump types have taken to defending Trump’s withdrawal from the Iran deal by saying that Obama should have made it a treaty. Evidently, they don’t want to try to defend the action on its merits (because it doesn’t have much in the way of merits). Among other flaws in that process argument, there is the little problem that the Bush Administration successfully got the Supreme Court to recognize Article II power to abrogate non-self-executing treaties. So Trump could have done the same thing regardless of whether this was ratified as a treaty. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/158 "2018-05-10T15:24:58Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Things got a little intense last night: > > [Israel strikes ‘nearly all’ Iranian infrastructure in Syria after Iran rocket attack, minister says](http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/05/10/israel-strikes-nearly-all-iranian-infrastructure-in-syria-after-iran-rocket-attack-minister-says.html) > [@](#): > > Israel and Iran reached the brink of full-scale war Thursday as the Islamic Republic’s **unprovoked rocket attack on soldiers in the Golan Heights** gave way to an unprecedented Israeli counter-strike that targeted nearly all Iranian infrastructure inside Syria “unprovoked”. That’s rich. Israel attacked Iranian sites only the day before. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/159 "2018-05-10T15:36:16Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > It’s interesting to me that a lot of #NeverTrump types have taken to defending Trump’s withdrawal from the Iran deal by saying that Obama should have made it a treaty. Evidently, they don’t want to try to defend the action on its merits (because it doesn’t have much in the way of merits). > > Among other flaws in that process argument, there is the little problem that the Bush Administration successfully got the Supreme Court to recognize Article II power to abrogate non-self-executing treaties. So Trump could have done the same thing regardless of whether this was ratified as a treaty. That should read “federal courts” not “Supreme Court.” The issue did not reach the Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/160 "2018-05-10T15:58:48Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > “unprovoked”. That’s rich. Israel attacked Iranian sites only the day before. That’s rich. Iran supports Hezbollah and sent a drone into Israel’s territory in February. …We can do this all day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373.md?page=9)