# Netflix CEO doubles down on "transphobia in media isn't harmful" **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 14, 2021, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-ceo-doubles-down-on-transphobia-in-media-isnt-harmful/952494 "2021-10-14T15:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-ceo-doubles-down-on-transphobia-in-media-isnt-harmful/952494/41 "2021-10-15T17:44:36Z")
> [@naita](#): > > > [@msmith537](#): > > > > Imagine our relief. > > Who are “us” here? And why should I care about your opinion? Well…you did care enough to let us know you were leaving Netflix. > [@naita](#): > > > [@msmith537](#): > > > > Sounds like your main objection is that Netflix doesn’t have a better PR department. > > Is it possible to fool me with good PR? Of course, I’m a normal human being who doesn’t do extensive research on every company I interact with in my life. But the issue here was raised by Netflix employees of the group specifically impacted. Am not I allowed to consider there opinion more informed than mine? If the CEO walks back his “nothing we show has real world impacts” statement and the trans employees are happy with that, am I somehow supposed to dig deeper, in your opinion? What I mean is that you don’t seem to be offended by the actual content of Chapelle’s special. You appear to be more put off by the CEO’s indifference to making woke people feel ok about a show they never saw. > [@naita](#): > > > [@msmith537](#): > > > > Chapelle makes a lot of jokes in his special that are “offensive” to a lot of different groups (Blacks, Whites, Asians, Jews, Women, etc…). What makes his “trans” jokes stand out as “crossing the line”? > > I haven’t seen Chapelle. I have no interest in offense comedy. Perhaps Black Netflix employees think he contributes to negative perceptions of Black people in exactly the same way trans employees feel, but don’t speak up. Does that mean I’m wrong to pay attention to the people who do speak up? I suppose if enough people didn’t find Chapelle funny, he wouldn’t earn a living doing it. I just object to this “cancel culture” mentality where someone like you or Tara Field seems to think that his show (or presumably the service that streams it) should not exist because YOU found it offensive. I actually did watch part of the special before all this came out. And FYI, if no one said anything, I would have probably never thought of it again. There was one funny bit where he is describing an encounter at the mall with some angry woman who followed him around until she could give him a piece of her mind. Chappell’s response was basically “Oh…that’s interesting. Did you see my act on cable TV or at a comedy club? Or did I FOLLOW YOU TO YOUR FUCKING CAR?!!” ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-ceo-doubles-down-on-transphobia-in-media-isnt-harmful/952494/42 "2021-10-15T17:52:16Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > “it’s just jokes, there’s no real-world harm,” Ah, yes, the [Greaseman](https://apnews.com/article/f25bb4df26ecb859241916e7ca98e6f9) defense. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-ceo-doubles-down-on-transphobia-in-media-isnt-harmful/952494/43 "2021-10-15T18:10:40Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Well…you did care enough to let us know you were leaving Netflix. Just as much as you care enough to make your opinion on someone else’s opinion known. > [@msmith537](#): > > You appear to be more put off by the CEO’s indifference to making woke people feel ok about a show they never saw. That would be a pretty disingenuous way of putting what the OP actually said. What the CEO said, and it’s right up in the title of the thread if you are having difficulty remembering, is that “transphobia in the media isn’t harmful.” There is a solar system’s worth of daylight between that and the field of straw you have chosen to devaste with your cutting wit. > [@msmith537](#): > > I suppose if enough people didn’t find Chapelle funny, he wouldn’t earn a living doing it. Yes, and if enough people weren’t racist, then the KKK wouldn’t exist either. I don’t think that the point that there are enough bigots out there to profit off of bigoted speech is as good a rejoinder as it may have seemed when it first surfaced in your mind. > [@msmith537](#): > > I just object to this “cancel culture” mentality where someone like you or Tara Field seems to think that his show (or presumably the service that streams it) should not exist because YOU found it offensive. Once again, try actually reading the OP before making accusations like this. You end up looking silly, even if you can take pride in all the straw that you have successfully managed to knock down. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-ceo-doubles-down-on-transphobia-in-media-isnt-harmful/952494/44 "2021-10-15T18:37:18Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Ah, yes, the [Greaseman](https://apnews.com/article/f25bb4df26ecb859241916e7ca98e6f9) defense. > Washington’s Doug `Greaseman″ Tracht was suspended by station WARW Wednesday after he played a portion of a song by Grammy award-winning singer Lauryn Hill and remarked, `No wonder people drag them behind trucks.″ > > The comment linked Hill, who is black, to the dragging death in Texas of a black man, James Byrd Jr. A white supremacist was sentenced to death Thursday in Byrd’s killing. > > A statement from the station announcing Tracht’s firing Thursday apologized to listeners who were offended. > > ``While we will always strongly support the right of our on-air artists to express a wide range of opinions, even those that are unpopular or offensive to some, WARW cannot be associated with the trivialization of an unspeakable act of violence,″ the statement read. Do Chappelle’s jokes and Netflix CEO’s comments in any way advocate for or justify acts of violence towards trans people or any other identifiable group? If not, then this is not a fair comparison to make. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Yes, and if enough people weren’t racist, then the KKK wouldn’t exist either. I don’t think that the point that there are enough bigots out there to profit off of bigoted speech is as good a rejoinder as it may have seemed when it first surfaced in your mind. Is it your argument then that everyone who finds offensive comedy funny is a bigot? If not then I don’t think your rejoinder to the KKK is as apt an analogy as it may have initially seemed in your mind. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-ceo-doubles-down-on-transphobia-in-media-isnt-harmful/952494/45 "2021-10-15T18:40:04Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Do Chappelle’s jokes and Netflix CEO’s comments in any way advocate for or justify acts of violence towards trans people or any other identifiable group? I knew I should’ve added context. “[I]t’s just jokes, there’s no real-world harm” is very close to Greaseman saying he “didn’t mean nothin’”. The truck dragging comment wasn’t the first time he pulled that out, either; he’s used it whenever his brain/mouth filter is too slow to engage. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-ceo-doubles-down-on-transphobia-in-media-isnt-harmful/952494/46 "2021-10-15T18:58:21Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Do Chappelle’s jokes and Netflix CEO’s comments in any way advocate for or justify acts of violence towards trans people or any other identifiable group? If not, then this is not a fair comparison to make. Why does that make a difference? The defense of Chapelle’s act, from the CEO of Netflix, is that these are just jokes, and jokes can’t harm people. Surely, that applies just as equally to Greaseman as it does to Chapelle? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-ceo-doubles-down-on-transphobia-in-media-isnt-harmful/952494/47 "2021-10-15T19:03:39Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Why does that make a difference? The defense of Chapelle’s act, from the CEO of Netflix, is that these are just jokes, and jokes can’t harm people. Surely, that applies just as equally to Greaseman as it does to Chapelle? We seem to be headed down a familiar road towards our respective difference in understanding of what is or is not funny and why. I’d rather not take that trip again if you don’t mind. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-ceo-doubles-down-on-transphobia-in-media-isnt-harmful/952494/48 "2021-10-15T19:11:26Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Well…you did care enough to let us know you were leaving Netflix. Because it might interest people who though similarly to me, and open up for discussion with people who have more to offer than “Imagine our relief”. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-ceo-doubles-down-on-transphobia-in-media-isnt-harmful/952494/49 "2021-10-15T19:15:22Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > We seem to be headed down a familiar road towards our respective difference in understanding of what is or is not funny and why. You keep switching from understanding the OP to misunderstanding the OP. The OP doesn’t care what Chappelle said, whether it’s funny or not. The OP talks about the CEO downplaying the real world effects of transphobic content. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-ceo-doubles-down-on-transphobia-in-media-isnt-harmful/952494/50 "2021-10-15T19:24:55Z")
FWIW I do think OP and several of OP’s compatriots are slightly misrepresenting (maybe at times just due to sloppy language) Ted Sarandos’s position. Sarandos is not saying that transphobic comments, or even just “mean jokes about trans people” cannot lead to real world harm. He is saying Netflix only prohibits content that is **intended to incite hate or violence.** That’s an important distinction–because Netflix, and in fact no one, should be expected to be responsible for any and all possible things that might be done because of their free expression. One of the best films ever made is Martin Scorsese’s _Taxi Driver_, Robert de Niro plays Travis Bickle, a disturbed taxi driver in New York City. At one point out of his generalized disgust for society and a politician not living up to his standards, Bickle considers shooting a political candidate. He changes his mind on that after Secret Service agents see his gun, he flees and avoids capture. A young John Hinkley liked this movie, and based on the plot and what he perceived as Bickle being a heroic figure, and his inappropriate obsession with Jodie Foster (one of the actresses in the film), Hinkley ends up shooting Ronald Reagan, James Brady and a secret service agent. I do not believe Martin Scorsese, Robert de Niro, Jodie Foster, Paul Schrader (screenwriter) or Columbia Pictures bore any moral responsibility for Hinkley’s actions. _Taxi Driver_ absolutely lead to someone committing a violent action, but it was not **intended to cause violence or hate** , Sarandos is saying Netflix does not allow media on its platform that is produced _with that intent._ The tone of his memo is tone deaf based on my opinion of the times we live in, but he is not saying that such content cannot cause harm, he is saying that they ban content that _intends_ to incite harm. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-ceo-doubles-down-on-transphobia-in-media-isnt-harmful/952494/51 "2021-10-15T19:26:18Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > You keep switching from understanding the OP to misunderstanding the OP. The OP doesn’t care what Chappelle said, whether it’s funny or not. The OP talks about the CEO downplaying the real world effects of transphobic content. The point I made to **Miller** (and the OP) is that it _does_ matter what Chappelle said. I realize that ignoring what Chappelle says in his routine makes it easier to offer the argument that all offensive humor is wrong (and bigoted according to at least one response), but as I tried to show, that’s simply not the case. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-ceo-doubles-down-on-transphobia-in-media-isnt-harmful/952494/52 "2021-10-15T20:06:58Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The tone of his memo is tone deaf based on my opinion of the times we live in, but he is not saying that such content cannot cause harm, he is saying that they ban content that _intends_ to incite harm. He specifically argues that content simply doesn’t lead to real world harm, referencing the lack of correlation between violent video games and real world violence. If the point was that Netflix for whatever reason only bans content that _intends_ to incite harm, but he was acknowledging that harm can arise in the real world without intent, he then spent half the memo countering what he intended to acknowledge. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-ceo-doubles-down-on-transphobia-in-media-isnt-harmful/952494/53 "2021-10-15T20:12:11Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > …offer the argument that all offensive humor is wrong… That is NOT what the OP is arguing at all. Rather than be the third or fourth person to try and explain it, I’ll just bow out. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-ceo-doubles-down-on-transphobia-in-media-isnt-harmful/952494/54 "2021-10-15T20:15:06Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > That is NOT what the OP is arguing at all. Rather than be the third or fourth person to try and explain it, I’ll just bow out. Do what you like but I wish you would quote and consider my entire response and not just the part you want to address. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-ceo-doubles-down-on-transphobia-in-media-isnt-harmful/952494/55 "2021-10-15T20:19:47Z")
> [@naita](#): > > > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > > > The tone of his memo is tone deaf based on my opinion of the times we live in, but he is not saying that such content cannot cause harm, he is saying that they ban content that _intends_ to incite harm. > > He specifically argues that content simply doesn’t lead to real world harm, referencing the lack of correlation between violent video games and real world violence. If the point was that Netflix for whatever reason only bans content that _intends_ to incite harm, but he was acknowledging that harm can arise in the real world without intent, he then spent half the memo countering what he intended to acknowledge. Sarandos has two memos relating to this topic: [Dave Chappelle Stand-Up: Netflix CEO Addresses Controversy in Memo - Variety](https://variety.com/2021/film/news/dave-chappelle-stand-up-netflix-controversy-1235086299/) This is the first memo, which explains why Netflix is not going to pull Chappelle’s special. He specifically says these things in terms of why they are not pulling it: > [@](#): > > _Several of you have also asked where we draw the line on hate. We don’t allow titles Netflix that are designed to incite hate or violence, and we don’t believe The Closer crosses that line. I recognize, however, that distinguishing between commentary and harm is hard, especially with stand-up comedy which exists to push boundaries. Some people find the art of stand-up to be mean-spirited but our members enjoy it, and it’s an important part of our content offering._ So at least his representation of Netflix policy is that the “line” is when media are “designed to incite hate or violence.” His second memo where he expands more on his opinions is here, and is where he makes the videogame reference you allude to: [Ted Sarandos Doubles Down on Dave Chappelle Defense - Variety](https://variety.com/2021/film/news/ted-sarandos-dave-chappelle-defense-1235088647/) In that memo he does make clear the standard Netflix uses for deciding whether to pull content or not: > [@](#): > > _In his special, Chappelle makes harsh jokes about many different groups, which is his style and a reason his fans love his comedy and commentary. Stand-up comedians often expose issues that are uncomfortable because the art by nature is a highly provocative. As a leadership team, we do not believe that The Closer is intended to incite hatred or violence against anyone (per our Sensitive Content guidelines)._ He does express an opinion that he at least suggests is a corporate one (due to use of the pronoun “we”), that Netflix content doesn’t generally cause harm and cites a spuriously correlated claim about declining violent crime rates and the emergence of violent videogames (which I think is a poor argument.) But the point remains–he has not actually said X isn’t harmful. He has said they don’t prohibit content unless it is intended to incite hate/violence, and then he said he believes there is evidence showing that “content on screen doesn’t directly translate to real world harm.” Even if he is wrong about that, if we take his description of Netflix’s policies at face value, it would not affect the presence of Chappelle’s special on the platform–because Netflix says it doesn’t remove content simply because it is “hurtful” or “harmful”, but only if it **is intended to incite hate and violence.** So I do not think it is accurate to suggest that Netflix is keeping something on their platform **because** they think transphobic comments cause no harm, since that is not the stated criteria for presence on the platform. Ted Sarandos and presumably other executive leadership at Netflix do seem to think that transphobic jokes are not harmful and anyone is free to react to that however they see fit as individuals and as consumers, but it is not the reason Netflix didn’t pull the special–at least according to Netflix. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-ceo-doubles-down-on-transphobia-in-media-isnt-harmful/952494/56 "2021-10-15T23:24:57Z")
If there are to be no sacred cows in a free society than that means no sacred cows. I’m glad to see a tiny bit of push back against the cult of woke from Netflix. It helps that Dave Chapelle is damn near uncancelable. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-ceo-doubles-down-on-transphobia-in-media-isnt-harmful/952494/57 "2021-10-15T23:36:38Z")
What baffles me is why the OP woke up one day and decided “this is too much!” when Netflix has hundreds if not thousands of old shows and movies that the “woke” crowd would consider bigoted, hate speech, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-ceo-doubles-down-on-transphobia-in-media-isnt-harmful/952494/58 "2021-10-15T23:47:12Z")
Two names that come to mind for this type of humor are Ricky Gervais and Louis C.K. I don’t recall this sort of outrage over their routines other than when the latter got busted for actually acting out on his material. Eddie Murphy was doing it wayyy back when. There are comedians that I don’t watch because I don’t like their shtick (including Chappelle and Louis C.K.), but I would draw the line at banning their right to express their comedic points of view. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2021, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-ceo-doubles-down-on-transphobia-in-media-isnt-harmful/952494/59 "2021-10-16T00:20:02Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Do what you like but I wish you would quote and consider my entire response and not just the part you want to address. That’s not possible, as your entire post depends on that statement. There’s nothing else in the post. All you did was misrepresent what someone said, and then argued against that misrepresentation. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2021, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-ceo-doubles-down-on-transphobia-in-media-isnt-harmful/952494/60 "2021-10-16T00:43:19Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Two names that come to mind for this type of humor are Ricky Gervais and Louis C.K. I don’t recall this sort of outrage over their routines other than when the latter got busted for actually acting out on his material. Eddie Murphy was doing it wayyy back when. There are comedians that I don’t watch because I don’t like their shtick (including Chappelle and Louis C.K.), but I would draw the line at banning their right to express their comedic points of view. We are discussing bigotry. Not points of view. As far as I know, Louis CK never had bigoted shit in his act. He definitely didn’t make an entire special where he attacked a particular minority. I was actually rather impressed with his skill in saying objectionable things but not crossing that line. I don’t know a lot about Ricky Gervais’s act. I don’t believe he’s ever shown his bigotry in his act. But he did do an all out attack on trans people on Twitter. It was extremely hateful. However, he faced the same backlash that Chapelle faced now, and has come out and reversed everything he said. No one here is talking about offensive humor, or people sharing points of view. We’re not talking about disagreements. We’re discussing bigotry, a social ill that causes societal and individual harm. About half of all trans people commit suicide because society will not accept them. To argue that a guy attacking all trans people for being trans does not cause harm is ridiculous. Not watching that show will not save these lives, or end the bigotry against trans people. It’s the equivalent of the argument agains the Civil Rights act, where people said that, if you don’t like a bigoted establishment, you can just not go there. You can’t fix bigotry by ignoring it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-ceo-doubles-down-on-transphobia-in-media-isnt-harmful/952494.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-ceo-doubles-down-on-transphobia-in-media-isnt-harmful/952494.md?page=4)