# Netflix exec fired for "using" N-word **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 24, 2018, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-exec-fired-for-using-n-word/816664 "2018-06-24T15:19:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-exec-fired-for-using-n-word/816664/101 "2018-06-27T18:46:12Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > He mentioned it in the context of saying it shouldn’t be used, _was told that that was not cool_, and then did the very same thing again a couple days later. > > If he’d been fired for the first offense, I could understand it being considered a little idiotic. But he was fired when the \*second \*incident came to light. And probably for being seen to be covering up the second incident months later. That’s not what happened. He spoke the word the word the first time in a meeting, in the context of words that should not be used. He spoke the word the second time a few days later _in a meeting with HR discussing the first usage_. No doubt in the meeting with HR he was expressing his disagreement with the censorship policy. But in any event, he never used the word again after that. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-exec-fired-for-using-n-word/816664/102 "2018-06-27T19:15:20Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > But he was fired when the \*second \*incident came to light. And probably for being seen to be covering up the second incident months later. How does one cover up a meeting with HR at Netflix, and what was the evidence that convinced you that this was “probably” what he did? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-exec-fired-for-using-n-word/816664/103 "2018-06-28T04:00:01Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > These language rules and the virtue signaling are farcical at this point. > [@Acsenray](#): > > You’ve done a pretty decent job of signaling yourself. Eh. “Nigger” moved from being “just a word” in many eyes, into being a socially charged word, and then a super-bad dirty word over a matter of decades. Over a human lifetime, perhaps, depending on what part of the country you were from. And some of this evolution happened on _television,_ so there’s a record of it. It is comical to see. It seems better to drop the term from our language, if the term is dehumanizing. The implications “nigger” had in the mouths of the dominant culture seemed about a step above “stupid monkey,” if that. But it was a nasty thing to call someone if it was _bad to be black,_ because it was bad to be black. Changing the word is a means to an end, which is changing the thinking. But as it has gained a different sense in slang, we find that the word has not disappeared, but changed. This age, of it being the worst word we all know, too shall pass. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-exec-fired-for-using-n-word/816664/104 "2018-06-28T05:31:44Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Eh. “Nigger” moved from being “just a word” in many eyes, into being a socially charged word, and then a super-bad dirty word over a matter of decades. Over a human lifetime, perhaps, depending on what part of the country you were from. And some of this evolution happened on _television,_ so there’s a record of it. It is comical to see. > > It seems better to drop the term from our language, if the term is dehumanizing. The implications “nigger” had in the mouths of the dominant culture seemed about a step above “stupid monkey,” if that. But it was a nasty thing to call someone if it was _bad to be black,_ because it was bad to be black. Changing the word is a means to an end, which is changing the thinking. > > But as it has gained a different sense in slang, we find that the word has not disappeared, but changed. This age, of it being the worst word we all know, too shall pass. Sure. And it appears that the executive at Netflix was fired for saying something just like what you wrote here. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-exec-fired-for-using-n-word/816664/105 "2018-06-28T05:50:32Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Scripted? what difference does that make? Surely making it a premeditated action is worse? Err, no? This is not murder we’re talking about. > [@](#): > > Would it be wrong for a white writer to put that word in the mouth of a white character? Entirely dependent on how it’s done, but in general, I’d prefer white people not do so. I’m more OK with it if said white person were writing biographical stuff where it was verbatim quotes. But otherwise? See my reference to Tarantino. > [@](#): > > What if a white person were talking about the fact that a white writer put the word in the mouth of a white character? Could they use the word then? Could they use it when arguing against it? for it? I’d say no. Not when “the N word” is an adequate substitute in the conversation. \* Especially if talking to an audience of PoCs.\* They could use it if they were doing an actual script readthrough, though. > [@](#): > > Of course if you are happy to say that a white person is able to use that word and it always depends on context then we I don’t think we actually disagree. > If not, you’ve got quite a lot of clarifying to do. Well, I’m not happy to say it. So what do you need clarified? > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > explain why? art is art is it not? If there is a valid reason for making people speak that way why on earth would the colour of the writer matter? :rolleyes: Are you fucking kidding me? > [@](#): > > I don’t understand your distinctions here at all, either context matters or it doesn’t. This is bullshit. Some contexts matter, some don’t. > [@](#): > > but not if it is written by a white scriptwriter? it is always bad then is it? I’d allow for some leeway, like biographical quoting, but otherwise? How the hell do you know if the White writer is not using the word transgressively, or getting a visceral thrill out of it? You cant - or rather, for any individual writer non-Black writer, it’s a privilege they’d have to _earn_. (not just White - not down with a Japanese writer making free with it either) > [@](#): > > the persons skin colour seems to matter most of all. When it comes to who can say “nigger”? You fucking bet their ethnicity matters most. Did you think this was something I’d try and deny? Let me make my stance crystal clear then - I think Black people can say it as and whenever the fuck the feel like, and white people really, \*really \*need a \*damn \*good reason to say the actual word and not use a substitution. That goes double for professional contexts. > [@](#): > > You can feel free to argue that way but it doesn’t make sense to me and your justifications seem muddled and inconsistent. And defenses of White people’s right to say “nigger” just seem :rolleyes: to me. > [@Riemann](#): > > That’s not what happened. He spoke the word the word the first time in a meeting, in the context of words that should not be used. He spoke the word the second time a few days later _in a meeting with HR discussing the first usage_. No doubt in the meeting with HR he was expressing his disagreement with the censorship policy. But in any event, he never used the word again after that. This in no way disagrees with what I said. So how is that “not what happened”? What are you disagreeing with? > [@Shodan](#): > > How does one cover up a meeting with HR at Netflix By not mentioning it at all when talking to a Black employee’s group on a related subject 3 months later, apparently. > [@](#): > > , and what was the evidence that convinced you that this was “probably” what he did? You might want to relook at what the word “probably” was qualifying in that sentence. And my evidence is that he was fired. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-exec-fired-for-using-n-word/816664/106 "2018-06-28T05:54:59Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Sure. And it appears that the executive at Netflix was fired for saying something just like what you wrote here. Is \*\*foolsguinea \*\*a “top communications executive” at a media company trying to project an image of progressiveness and inclusivity? Or just some shmoe on the internet (sorry, **foolsguinea** , but you are :D) ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-exec-fired-for-using-n-word/816664/107 "2018-06-28T06:35:58Z")
Heh. Well, it’s a pretty ugly word, a lot of the time. But I kind of grew up on George Carlin. Tell me I _can’t_ use a word, and I may use it just to spite you. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-exec-fired-for-using-n-word/816664/108 "2018-06-28T06:36:52Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > This in no way disagrees with what I said. So how is that “not what happened”? What are you disagreeing with? Your claim was: > [@MrDibble](#): > > He mentioned it in the context of saying it shouldn’t be used, _was told that that was not cool_, and then did the very same thing again a couple days later. > > If he’d been fired for the first offense, I could understand it being considered a little idiotic. But he was fired when the \*second \*incident came to light. And probably for being seen to be covering up the second incident months later. What actually happened is that the “second offense” occurred a few days later _during the HR meeting in which he was being reprimanded for the first offense_. That’s quite different from what you said. As I mentioned earlier, there are many ways that HR meeting conversation could have gone. He might have expressed polite disagreement with the censorship policy, and referenced the word in an uncensored fashion in doing so. Or he could have been a total dick about it. We don’t know. But in any event, it’s clear that he refrained from using the word after the HR meeting. So after he was “_told that that was not cool_” in the HR meeting he did stop using it, whether or not he agreed with the policy. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-exec-fired-for-using-n-word/816664/109 "2018-06-28T06:48:09Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Is \*\*foolsguinea \*\*a “top communications executive” at a media company trying to project an image of progressiveness and inclusivity? Or just some shmoe on the internet (sorry, **foolsguinea** , but you are :D) Okay. But before addressing whether it would be appropriate for an executive in that position to say what foolsguinea wrote, the facts of what happened and why he was fired still seem to be somewhat confused. Do you agree that the facts are consistent with: (a) The executive says something similar to what foolsguinea wrote there (with “nigger” uncensored); (b) He is reprimanded a few days later in an HR meeting, in which he repeats his views on referencing the word explicitly in that context, again speaking the word without censoring to “n-word”; (c) He never speaks the word again, or apologizes for using it; (d) Several months he is fired. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-exec-fired-for-using-n-word/816664/110 "2018-06-28T06:52:24Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Your claim was: > > What actually happened is that the “second offense” occurred a few days later _during the HR meeting in which he was being reprimanded for the first offense_. That’s quite different from what you said. No, it isn’t. The sentence “and then did the very same thing again a couple days later.” refers to _that meeting_ with the 2 Black HR guys. He’d already been told it was offensive before then, according to the memo: “Several people afterwards told him how inappropriate and hurtful his use of the N-word was” > [@](#): > > So after he was “_told that that was not cool_” in the HR meeting he did stop using it, whether or not he agreed with the policy. He was told it was not OK _ **before the HR meeting. Then he continued to use it in the HR meeting with two Black staffers** _. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-exec-fired-for-using-n-word/816664/111 "2018-06-28T06:58:18Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > He’d already been told it was offensive before then, according to the memo: “Several people afterwards told him how inappropriate and hurtful his use of the N-word was”… Perhaps, but it’s a moot point whether their personal view is a reasonable standard that we should all adopt. He was fired for violating _company policy_. It was presumably the HR meeting in which he was formally reprimanded for violating company policy on the matter. In most matters it would not be the case that: (1) Employee violates company policy; (2) Employee is formally warned by HR about the violation\*; (3) Employee commits no subsequent violation; (4) Months later employee is fired for the violation. \*Albeit, another violation occurred _during_ the meeting. Again, we don’t know exactly how that conversation went. It could have been “I said this… is that really against company policy?”. Or he could have been a total dick about it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-exec-fired-for-using-n-word/816664/112 "2018-06-28T06:58:44Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Okay. But before addressing whether it would be appropriate for an executive in that position to say what foolsguinea wrote, the facts of what happened and why he was fired still seem to be somewhat confused. Do you agree that the facts are consistent with: Let’s see: > [@](#): > > (b) He is reprimanded I don’t get that he was “reprimanded” from: " this time Jonathan said the N-word again to two of our Black employees in HR who were trying to help him deal with the original offense." > [@](#): > > a few days later in an HR meeting, in which he repeats his views on referencing the word explicitly in that context, again speaking the word without censoring to “n-word”; …_ **to 2 Black HR employees** _. > [@](#): > > (c) He never speaks the word again, or apologizes for using it; I see no mention of an apology. > [@](#): > > (d) Several months he is fired. …_after_ not addressing the subject\* in a meeting with a Black employee’s group\*, yes. Which “was understood by many in the meeting to mean he didn’t care and didn’t accept accountability for his words.” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-exec-fired-for-using-n-word/816664/113 "2018-06-28T07:01:40Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Perhaps, but it’s a moot point whether their personal view is correct or reasonable. He was fired for violating company policy. No, he was fired for lack of judgement and sensitivity, so essentially for incompetence. The memo talks about norms, not policy. > [@](#): > > (2) Employee is formally warned by HR about the violation: I see nothing that say he was “formally warned” for anything. > [@](#): > > (4) Months later employee is fired for the violation. That’s not why his boss says he was fired. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-exec-fired-for-using-n-word/816664/114 "2018-06-28T08:54:35Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I see no mention of an apology. I was wrong about this, he did apologise after being confronted after the _first_ meeting. Which makes the _second_ incident worse, not better. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-exec-fired-for-using-n-word/816664/115 "2018-06-28T10:44:41Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Entirely dependent on how it’s done, but in general, I’d prefer white people not do so. OK, so now we need an agreement of some kind to give advice to people on how and when the word should be used. I’m assuming you’ve already clarified how “white” and “black” are to be defined yes? > [@](#): > > I’m more OK with it if said white person were writing biographical stuff where it was verbatim quotes. But otherwise? See my reference to Tarantino.I’d say no. More OK? what does that mean? Tarantino’s take on MLK would be OK but Django - Unchained is beyond the pale? > [@](#): > > Not when “the N word” is an adequate substitute in the conversation. \* Especially if talking to an audience of PoCs.\* OK, so now we need clarity on what that means. what does the term PoC refer to? Doesn’t that mean simply “not white” so who does that include…Mexican? Tunisian? Arabian? how many need to be in the audience before it is an issue. If it is a mixed-race performer with a 1/8th black heritage (but no outward signs) and speaking to a 25% black, 25% Jewish, 25% Swedish and 25% Peruvian audience, how many instances of it can they use in the full form? > [@](#): > > They could use it if they were doing an actual script readthrough, though. That’s big of you. > [@](#): > > Some contexts matter, some don’t. Wrong, there aren’t multiple contexts for the utterance of a word that can be neatly packaged and defined. There is only the single totality of context for the example you experience and you have to consider it in it’s entirety to make a judgement. Understanding context is not a flow diagram. You don’t start at the top with “is the person white or black” and work on from there. It is a cloud diagram, a Venn diagram, an atmosphere, a swamp! It is messy and ill-defined and uncertain and I wish you’d admit it rather than digging yourself deeper. > [@](#): > > I’d allow for some leeway, like biographical quoting, but otherwise? How the hell do you know if the White writer is not using the word transgressively, or getting a visceral thrill out of it? You cant Lions and Tigers and Bears oh my! Imagine a writer trying to provoke a reaction and an emotion through the use of words. It’ll never catch on. > [@](#): > > - or rather, for any individual writer non-Black writer, it’s a privilege they’d have to _earn_. (not just White - not down with a Japanese writer making free with it either) Hang on, isn’t a Japanese writer a PoC? are you moving the goalposts again? > [@](#): > > When it comes to who can say “nigger”? You fucking bet their ethnicity matters most. Did you think this was something I’d try and deny? I was rather hoping that you’d admit that what you really mean is “context is everything” and that, though ethnicity may play some part in it, it isn’t a magic bullet when it comes to giving people a pass. but… > [@](#): > > Let me make my stance crystal clear then - I think Black people can say it as and whenever the fuck the feel like, and white people really, \*really \*need a \*damn \*good reason to say the actual word and not use a substitution. That goes double for professional contexts. I don’t think that is any clearer at all. You haven’t defined what you mean by “black” and “white” (you aren’t using PoC any more…I don’t know if that is a step forward or not) and you aren’t able to say what a “damn good reason” is for a white person (definition TBD). Even worse seems to be the implication that a black person can’t use the word in an offensive way at all. Now I’m sure you are annoyed at me for being picky and pedantic but this is what you get when you start to lay down rules on who can and can’t say what. It is especially troubling when you set up one rule(undefined) for one (undefined) ethnicity and another for another (undefined) ethnicity. Kafka and Orwell would have a field day. I don’t trust you (or anyone) to tell me in advance what words I can or can’t use and to prejudge what you think I might mean. If that means you hear the would “nigger” from my lips then you’ll just have take it in, restrain your knee, engage your brain and understand what I’ve said and why I said it. I’m fully aware of the power of that word and many others and you should trust me to say it with good reason. I’m not the one advocating a language policy based on skin colour. I’m all for letting people say, write or sing whatever the hell they want without trying to prejudge whether it’ll be too offensive to bear. I think both you and I are capable of making a grown-up decision based on the context as a whole. It may shock you know that even some black people will be totally fine with white people using the word in situations where you aren’t. It’s almost like they have a mind of their own. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-exec-fired-for-using-n-word/816664/116 "2018-06-28T10:54:57Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > The implications “nigger” had in the mouths of the dominant culture seemed about a step above “stupid monkey,” if that. IMO it is much \*worse \*than “stupid monkey.” It conveys contempt. It can variously be interpreted as “subhuman,” “wish you were still a slave,” and “you don’t deserve to live.” “Stupid monkey” is merely dismissive, and kind of endearing. I don’t think there is dispute that it’s a name that nobody should ever call another person. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Constitution](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d2c977/32.png) [@The\_Constitution](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Constitution)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-exec-fired-for-using-n-word/816664/117 "2018-06-28T11:25:25Z")
It’s just silly for adults to say “N-word”. Like Voldemort (oops, sorry – the “V-word”). It’s an ugly word, but it’s a word just the same. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-exec-fired-for-using-n-word/816664/118 "2018-06-28T11:33:54Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > OK, so now we need an agreement of some kind to give advice to people on how and when the word should be used. > I’m assuming you’ve already clarified how “white” and “black” are to be defined yes? Is that sarcasm? > [@](#): > > More OK? what does that mean? Tarantino’s take on MLK would be OK but Django - Unchained is beyond the pale? I have no desire to see Tarantino’s take on MLK, thanks. But yes, quoting historical figures is better than pure fiction. > [@](#): > > OK, so now we need clarity on what that means. what does the term PoC refer to? Doesn’t that mean simply “not white” It _means_ “not White”, but not “_simply_”, no. > [@](#): > > so who does that include…Mexican? Tunisian? Arabian? how many need to be in the audience before it is an issue. It would still be problematic if he was giving a talk to the damn UDC. > [@](#): > > If it is a mixed-race performer with a 1/8th black heritage (but no outward signs) and speaking to a 25% black, 25% Jewish, 25% Swedish and 25% Peruvian audience, how many instances of it can they use in the full form? :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > That’s big of you. :rolleyes: Bigger of me than his ex-boss, even… \*For non-Black people, the word should not be spoken as there is almost no context in which it is appropriate or constructive (even when singing a song or reading a script). There is not a way to neutralize the emotion and history behind the word in any context. \* > [@](#): > > Wrong, there aren’t multiple contexts for the utterance of a word that can be neatly packaged and defined. Bullshit. And a lovely example of the continuum fallacy. > [@](#): > > Understanding context is not a flow diagram. You don’t start at the top with “is the person white or black” and work on from there. For using the word “nigger”, I very much can and do. > [@](#): > > Imagine a writer trying to provoke a reaction and an emotion through the use of words. It’ll never catch on. …said the reviewer of _The Protocols_… > [@](#): > > Hang on, isn’t a Japanese writer a PoC? are you moving the goalposts again? You can, perhaps, quote where I previously said it’s OK for any PoC to say “nigger”, right? > [@](#): > > I was rather hoping that you’d admit that what you really mean is “context is everything” and that, though ethnicity may play some part in it, it isn’t a magic bullet when it comes to giving people a pass. but… …here we are. > [@](#): > > I don’t think that is any clearer at all. You haven’t defined what you mean by “black” and “white” :rolleyes: Does this bullshit tactic ever work for you? “Oh, no, what about this guy? He’s 1/64th Black, is he black enough to say nigger” is a stupid argument. Blacks are people who both self-identify as Black and are accepted as such by other Blacks. > [@](#): > > (you aren’t using PoC any more…I don’t know if that is a step forward or not) If you’ve been following along, you’d have noticed that I used Black to refer to specific individuals and groups, or to reference who I feel can use the word without any question being raised. > [@](#): > > and you aren’t able to say what a “damn good reason” is for a white person (definition TBD). I’ve already given a good reason - verbatim quotes in an artistic, not professional, context. Court testimony would be another good reason. > [@](#): > > Even worse seems to be the implication that a black person can’t use the word in an offensive way at all. They can be as offensive as they like with it, is my point, not that all their usages of it are inoffensive. > [@](#): > > Now I’m sure you are annoyed at me for being picky and pedantic but this is what you get when you start to lay down rules on who can and can’t say what. It is especially troubling when you set up one rule(undefined) for one (undefined) ethnicity and another for another (undefined) ethnicity. I’m so sorry the existence of ambiguity is so troubling for you. However are you going to know when it’s OK for white folks to say nigger? My heart breaks :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > I don’t trust you (or anyone) to tell me in advance what words I can or can’t use and to prejudge what you think I might mean. If that means you hear the would “nigger” from my lips then you’ll just have take it in, restrain your knee, engage your brain and understand what I’ve said and why I said it. I’m fully aware of the power of that word and many others and you should trust me to say it with good reason. Naah, I’m going to go with “you just like saying the word” as an initial response, thanks. > [@](#): > > I’m not the one advocating a language policy based on skin colour. Neither am I. I’m advocating one based on specific past oppression of a ethnicity or ethnicities. > [@](#): > > I’m all for letting people say, write or sing whatever the hell they want without trying to prejudge whether it’ll be too offensive to bear. I think both you and I are capable of making a grown-up decision based on the context as a whole. Oh, I make decisions about white people who desperately want the right to say “nigger”, alright. > [@](#): > > It may shock you know that even some black people will be totally fine with white people using the word in situations where you aren’t. It’s almost like they have a mind of their own. Nothing shocks me - some Blacks are Republicans, too. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-exec-fired-for-using-n-word/816664/119 "2018-06-28T12:19:33Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > By not mentioning it at all when talking to a Black employee’s group on a related subject 3 months later, apparently. You have a rather expansive definition of “cover up”. > [@](#): > > You might want to relook at what the word “probably” was qualifying in that sentence. > > And my evidence is that he was fired. This is tautological. ‘He was probably fired for X, and my evidence is that he was fired’. With no more evidence than that, X is no more probable than anything else. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-exec-fired-for-using-n-word/816664/120 "2018-06-28T12:44:26Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Is that sarcasm? Hey, you are the one setting the racial rules not me > [@](#): > > It _means_ “not White”, but not “_simply_”, no Ok, so if not “simply” then what? . > [@](#): > > It would still be problematic if he was giving a talk to the damn UDC. a reference lost on me > [@](#): > > Bigger of me than his ex-boss, even… > \*For non-Black people, the word should not be spoken as there is almost no context in which it is appropriate or constructive (even when singing a song or reading a script). There is not a way to neutralize the emotion and history behind the word in any context. \* So you disagree with that position? > [@](#): > > Bullshit. And a lovely example of the continuum fallacy. Just saying it doesn’t make it so. The continuum fallacy has absolutely no relevance here, in fact what I imply is the very opposite of it. > [@](#): > > For using the word “nigger”, I very much can and do No you don’t and you admit as much elsewhere in your other posts. Sure you’d like to posture that you do but if that were the case then you’d never accept it being said by any “white” person under any circumstance and from your own words we know that isn’t the case. > [@](#): > > …said the reviewer of _The Protocols_… another reference lost on me > [@](#): > > You can, perhaps, quote where I previously said it’s OK for any PoC to say “nigger”, right? never claimed you did, but your reference of PoC in an audience suggests they (as a group) have a different relationship with that word so I’m wondering what that is and how to navigate it > [@](#): > > :rolleyes: Does this bullshit tactic ever work for you? “Oh, no, what about this guy? He’s 1/64th Black, is he black enough to say nigger” is a stupid argument. Blacks are people who both self-identify as Black and are accepted as such by other Blacks. So don’t answer if it is too difficult for you but don’t blame me, I’m not the one making the rules along racial lines. you are, as such it falls to you to define it. > [@](#): > > If you’ve been following along, you’d have noticed that I used Black to refer to specific individuals and groups, or to reference who I feel can use the word without any question being raised. which is no clearer than the first time you said it > [@](#): > > I’ve already given a good reason - verbatim quotes in an artistic, not professional, context. Court testimony would be another good reason. Artistic context that you approve of though? not Tarantino? > [@](#): > > They can be as offensive as they like with it, is my point, not that all their usages of it are inoffensive. And if they use it in an offensive way they should held to exactly the same standard as a white person…correct? I really hope so because that would be a little glimmer of agreement > [@](#): > > I’m so sorry the existence of ambiguity is so troubling for you. However are you going to know when it’s OK for white folks to say nigger? My heart breaks :rolleyes: Unlike you, I’ll make that judgement \*after \*it has happened when I’m able to consider the full context. > [@](#): > > Naah, I’m going to go with “you just like saying the word” as an initial response, of course you are, so much easier than taking the time to think about it. > [@](#): > > Neither am I. I’m advocating one based on specific past oppression of a ethnicity or ethnicities. that little dodge fools nobody, as evidenced by your very own in words in this very post you are making rules on speech based on skin colour > [@](#): > > Oh, I make decisions about white people who desperately want the right to say “nigger” Oh I know you do, even before they’ve used it and even if they never want to use it. I really don’t think it is me having trouble ambiguity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-exec-fired-for-using-n-word/816664.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-exec-fired-for-using-n-word/816664.md?page=7)