# Netflix’s The Crown S5 (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, netflix\ **Created:** [August 3, 2021, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-s-the-crown-s5-open-spoilers/947968 "2021-08-03T15:03:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-s-the-crown-s5-open-spoilers/947968/41 "2022-11-18T20:40:49Z")
> [@Briny\_Deep](#): > > Finally, where’s the grandeur, the glitter? I think we could do a quantitative analysis on the number of Rolls Royces seen in prior seasons, versus this one. I get that the monarchy had changed by now in the timeline, but had it really become this … drab? Perhaps I’m shallow – strike that, I am shallow – but these people and images are not what I came in for. That is an interesting point. In some ways, the show humanizes them, faults and all. Yet we still need to see that they are indeed SO not like us in other ways. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-s-the-crown-s5-open-spoilers/947968/42 "2022-11-18T22:01:07Z")
> [@Briny\_Deep](#): > > Part of it is the casting. I’m sorry, poor Imelda Staunton, she must be a lovely lady but the Queen did not have those close-set, beady Dolores Umbridge eyes. I never saw the Harry Potter movies so whatever this is didn’t distract me. I thought she was fine. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-s-the-crown-s5-open-spoilers/947968/43 "2022-11-19T22:20:14Z")
> [@Briny\_Deep](#): > > There must be something wrong with me. I’m not feeling the love this time around, and I’ve watched most S1-4 episodes 3 or 4 times. Used to be obsessed with this show, and something’s gone, something’s missing now. I’ve seen 4 episodes and ordinarily wouldn’t visit a thread like this for fear of being spoiled, but I just don’t care at this point. > > Part of it is the casting. I’m sorry, poor Imelda Staunton, she must be a lovely lady but the Queen did not have those close-set, beady Dolores Umbridge eyes. Of course Foy and Colman looked very little like QEII, but they were fascinating to watch in a way that Staunton isn’t, for me. There’s no delicious icy brittleness, and no heartbreaking tenderness. She is just flat to me. > > Charles’s Dominic West is, as many have said, way too handsome to be playing Charles, but far worse, he seems to be missing the spot-on peevish, whiny, utter pill quality that we all came to love in Josh OConner. Leslie Manville seems just – I don’t know – dissipated. There’s no fire. All I can see is those sad puppy eyes – the character is shockingly unrecognizable as HRH The Princess Margaret. > > Finally, where’s the grandeur, the glitter? I think we could do a quantitative analysis on the number of Rolls Royces seen in prior seasons, versus this one. I get that the monarchy had changed by now in the timeline, but had it really become this … drab? Perhaps I’m shallow – strike that, I am shallow – but these people and images are not what I came in for. I never thought this would happen, but I’m probably not going to finish watching the season. I’m about halfway through the season. I’ll get through it eventually. I find Staunton to be extremely dull in the role. She does the public face of the queen just fine but in private she feels very flat. One thing you hear about from those who knew her was the queen’s dry but very keen sense of humo(u)r. Staunton plays her like she’s never been amused in her life. One thing that I have enjoyed about the entire show was portraying lesser known parts of the history and leading me down some internet rabbit holes. This year it’s been learning about Sydney Johnson, Leonora Knatchbull and the effect of her death and James Colthurst (his family owns Blarney Castle!). ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-s-the-crown-s5-open-spoilers/947968/44 "2022-11-20T02:40:40Z")
> [@SwissMan](#): > > Imelda Staunton, for my money, looks more like the Queen physically then either Claire Foy or Olivia Colman. But i actually know what the old and middle aged queen looked like, as i often saw photos of her. I didn’t have and strong preconceptions of what the timing queen looked like. I’m really struggling with this actress. > [@Briny\_Deep](#): > > There must be something wrong with me. I’m not feeling the love this time around, You and me both. I stopped watching Midway through the first episode, and decided to risk spoilers here to find out if it gets better. And … unclear? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-s-the-crown-s5-open-spoilers/947968/45 "2022-11-20T13:51:20Z")
Boy, that divorce episode was a downer! ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-s-the-crown-s5-open-spoilers/947968/46 "2022-11-23T22:15:32Z")
Has anyone else noticed how muted the colors appear this season? Or is it my imagination? So much so that it is a distraction for me. But then I have a new TV, so I don’t know if that is a factor. I fiddled with the settings but have not drawn any conclusions. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-s-the-crown-s5-open-spoilers/947968/47 "2022-11-23T23:17:11Z")
Yes! Not till you said it, but that’s part of the problem with this season. The colors are washed out just as much as some of the acting is. Partner and I finished the season last night. I had to prove to him we’d seen the last episode, because it didn’t seem to build up to anything. I’m no showrunner or TV writer, probably with excellent reason, but (spoiler alert) I would have spent the last couple of episodes of this season building up the tension right up to Diana’s death, amping up the tone of the storyline while fictionalizing at liberty about her more and more glamorous and frenetic lifestyle post-divorce. Put all the Dodi stuff upfront in Season 5, not 6. The last scene would have been the car entering the tunnel, music crescendos to a sudden silence, cut to black. Start S6 with a Balmoral montage of happier times past before coming to the breaking of news to the family there. Their show is not my show anymore, it’s clear, but I still can’t understand what happened overall. Almost every moment was just flat for me, including, yes, the colors themselves. If anyone agrees, where do you think it went wrong – the casting? New directors, writers? Budget? The storytelling necessities of the (semi-)historical events themselves? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2022, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-s-the-crown-s5-open-spoilers/947968/48 "2022-11-24T00:26:25Z")
1. I have no problem with the stories themselves - this is a series more about Elizabeth than Diana, but it is even more about the Monarchy itself. That’s why it’s called _The Crown_. (Because of this, the Russian episode was a particular favorite.) 1. I understand the Charles/Dominic issue and I do think it is a specific decision by the show runner (Peter Morgan) to portray Charles against type. Now whether he is showing us an actual side of the real Charles which never gets reported on or if he’s doing the Herodotus thing again, I don’t know. _For the sake of this story_, I’ll accept that he is showing us an unseen side of the United Kingdom’s First Dork. Sometimes the audience has to be willing to meet the creator. (In real life I expect he (Morgan) realized Elizabeth wasn’t going to live forever and decided to pull his punches as to remain on the good side of the Crown.) 1. I had to adjust the brightness on my TV, I found the show to be that dark. 2. As mentioned above, I, too, thought this season would end closer to Diana’s death, even at the moment of it. But, again, _this isn’t her story_. Losing Hong Kong was more seminal an event for the Crown than, say, Aberfan, which also rated an entire episode. Losing Hong Kong also represented the decline of British global influence which went unabated during Elizabeth’s reign. I mean, Charles went on a _sailing holiday_ right after losing on of the jewels of the British Empire. Other British Kings in a similar situation wouldn’t be so sanguine. Can you imagine Henry V just sailing away to bang Camilla? No, he’d invade China! 😅 **In the end, I believe the show will conclude with the message that Elizabeth’s monarchy was a failure.** And that’s why… I think… some may not like this season, for the Crown kept losing and losing and losing during the 1990s… and we haven’t even gotten to the biggest blow yet. ---
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2022, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-s-the-crown-s5-open-spoilers/947968/49 "2022-11-24T00:38:45Z")
I guess I’m in the minority that I really enjoyed all the new cast and thought their performances were fantastic. Maybe my familiarity with the real-life counterparts is not as deep as everyone else’s so I can’t spot what’s wrong, but for a casual royal watcher, it seems right enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2022, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-s-the-crown-s5-open-spoilers/947968/50 "2022-11-24T00:40:11Z")
Oh, I enjoyed the hell out of this season. The brightness issue was a thing, but I have no problem with where the show is going or how it is getting there. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2022, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-s-the-crown-s5-open-spoilers/947968/51 "2022-11-24T02:32:23Z")
Hit post too early, see post below. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2022, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-s-the-crown-s5-open-spoilers/947968/52 "2022-11-24T02:49:33Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > In the end, I believe the show will conclude with the message that Elizabeth’s monarchy was a failure. In what sense do you think, or do you think the producers think, her reign was a failure? I mainly came here to say how much I love the opening title credits and theme music by Hans Zimmer. The animation is spectacularly symbolic of the development of the Monarchy over the centuries. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2022, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-s-the-crown-s5-open-spoilers/947968/53 "2022-11-24T12:25:48Z")
> [@Fair\_Rarity](#): > > I guess I’m in the minority that I really enjoyed all the new cast and thought their performances were fantastic. I definitely thought Dominic West was a better actor than the twitchy guy they had the previous season (lack of physical resemblance notwithstanding). I also liked the new Diana actress and I thought everyone else was fine, although I was a bit confused by the new Princess Margaret at first. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2022, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-s-the-crown-s5-open-spoilers/947968/54 "2022-11-24T13:50:34Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > 1. I understand the Charles/Dominic issue and I do think it is a specific decision by the show runner (Peter Morgan) to portray Charles against type. Now whether he is showing us an actual side of the real Charles which never gets reported on or if he’s doing the Herodotus thing again, I don’t know. _For the sake of this story_, I’ll accept that he is showing us an unseen side of the United Kingdom’s First Dork. Sometimes the audience has to be willing to meet the creator. > > (In real life I expect he (Morgan) realized Elizabeth wasn’t going to live forever and decided to pull his punches as to remain on the good side of the Crown.) > > 1. I had to adjust the brightness on my TV, I found the show to be that dark. Morgan has shown no motivation to stay on the good side of the royal family at all. This side of Charles has not been unseen at all. He’s always been a thoughtful intellectual with strong interests stated publicly such as environmental issues. His failing is being more in tune with his passions than with people. He is being shown exactly to type except West can’t help but make him look less awkward. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2022, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-s-the-crown-s5-open-spoilers/947968/55 "2022-11-24T15:13:26Z")
Well, I am not a royal watcher, so I defer to the better informed opinions of others. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2022, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-s-the-crown-s5-open-spoilers/947968/56 "2022-11-24T15:39:09Z")
IMO, they just really succeeded in making NONE of the characters sympathetic to me. In previous seasons, it was curious to imagine how the queen - basically a normal person with normal emotions - functions in the extremely weird situation she finds herself in. But by now, she’s morphed into some completely out of touch almost non-human creature. Margaret was always presented as sympathetic (and more interesting.) But now she is just this extremely minor character - almost a ghost. I think Anne comes across the best - but again, she is such a minor character. Instead, it is ALL about Liz, Phillip, Charles, and Diana. I always thought Charles more interesting that Liz - likely because I share his interests in gardening and architecture. But the show almost presents him as a loose cannon, willing to explode th monarchy. He keeps saying things like “We have to modernize”. But there is no indication that he has a clear idea of what that means. How a “modern” monarchy remains relevant. And the show just shows him as scheming against his mom. It even sorta bugs me that they present Phillip as the nicest character, when my impression is that he was really quite a bastard IRL. And as little of an opinion I had for Diana, even I didn’t think her the useless creature they present her as. I’ve never found it easy to enjoy a show where I find NONE of the characters likable - or even interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2022, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-s-the-crown-s5-open-spoilers/947968/57 "2022-11-24T16:06:07Z")
It does appear that King Charles will be modernizing the monarchy. There are multiple articles conjecturing about what shape that will take but it seems certain he will make significant changes. What I have heard is that the portrayal of him scheming against his mother is completely false. The episode where he was pushing John Major to back abdication in so many words never happened in real life according to Major. Unless you wanted an entire season about the marriage you have to make drama somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2022, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-s-the-crown-s5-open-spoilers/947968/58 "2022-11-24T16:09:34Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Unless you wanted an entire season about the marriage you have to make drama somewhere. Or - it coulda covered more time. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2022, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-s-the-crown-s5-open-spoilers/947968/59 "2022-11-26T04:06:01Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The episode where he was pushing John Major to back abdication in so many words never happened in real life according to Major. Someone was quoted as saying “the whole series is nonsense, but this is nonsense on stilts”. I didn’t realise that “nonsense on stilts” is a phrase Jeremy Bentham came up with. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2022, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-s-the-crown-s5-open-spoilers/947968/60 "2022-11-26T17:36:30Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > Unless you wanted an entire season about the marriage you have to make drama somewhere. > > Or - it coulda covered more time. The entire show is filled with episodes that weren’t really that big a deal in history but used for dramatic effect. Some of the best episodes. Too late to complain about it now. The episode about the fog was one of my favorites. It was a big deal. People died. But it didn’t almost bring down the government and Churchhill didn’t have an assistant that died to change how he responded to the crisis. Princess Alice was a remarkable woman who led a fascinating and tragic life but her stay in England was unremarkable. There was no journalist trying to dig up dirt. There was no dramatic article praising her. She just came to live with her son at the end of her life and no one cared. Peter Morgan wants to hit the big events but from the beginning he looked for little stories in the royal history that might make good drama. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-s-the-crown-s5-open-spoilers/947968.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netflix-s-the-crown-s5-open-spoilers/947968.md?page=4)