# Neutrinos and black holes **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 24, 2000, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neutrinos-and-black-holes/6519 "2000-01-24T00:15:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Pasta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@Pasta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pasta)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neutrinos-and-black-holes/6519/221 "2012-10-12T22:58:39Z")
> [@Gin\_Bell](#): > > Could someone explain why it is that if you believe in Santa Claus you are cute, but if you belief in Jesus you’re a nutcase? Cite for that claim that an adult believing in Santa Claus is **not** a nutcase? ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neutrinos-and-black-holes/6519/222 "2012-10-12T23:27:34Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > This is like saying the hole was created for the puddle because the puddle fits perfectly into the hole. Without getting into the no it isn’t yes it is - this **is** a nice way of summarising the Strong Anthropic Principle. Like I wrote above, understanding the difference between the strong and weak versions is pretty important. Working out where you sit on the belief scale is up to you, but it is worth looking at the effort that has gone into understanding the nature of the various beliefs. It isn’t as if this is a new question 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gin\_Bell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4af34b/32.png) [@Gin\_Bell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gin_Bell)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neutrinos-and-black-holes/6519/223 "2012-10-13T00:00:45Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > … it is worth looking at the effort that has gone into understanding the nature of the various beliefs. It isn’t as if this is a new question 😃 Recently [I was reading](http://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.html) that at least one of the following propositions must be true: (1) the human species is very likely to go extinct before reaching a “posthuman” stage (2) any posthuman civilization is extremely unlikely to run a significant number of simulations of their evolutionary history (or variations thereof) (3) we are almost certainly living in a computer simulation. It follows that the belief that there is a significant chance that we will one day become posthumans who run ancestor-simulations is false, unless we are currently living in a simulation. I was like dude!!! Gimme some 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cynthia\_Harris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Cynthia\_Harris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cynthia_Harris)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neutrinos-and-black-holes/6519/224 "2012-10-13T00:57:59Z")
We rather believe for human kind to be in a simulation opposed to it being extinct. Just because there may be a simulation doesn’t necessarily mean we’re actually it. ---
**Author:** ![Gin\_Bell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4af34b/32.png) [@Gin\_Bell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gin_Bell)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neutrinos-and-black-holes/6519/225 "2012-10-13T01:44:17Z")
Maybe, it sounds like a strong argument though: A technologically mature “posthuman” civilization would have enormous computing power. Based on this empirical fact, the simulation argument shows that at least one of the following propositions is true: (1) The fraction of human-level civilizations that reach a posthuman stage is very close to zero; (2) The fraction of posthuman civilizations that are interested in running ancestor-simulations is very close to zero; (3) The fraction of all people with our kind of experiences that are living in a simulation is very close to one. If (1) is true, then we will almost certainly go extinct before reaching posthumanity. If (2) is true, then there must be a strong convergence among the courses of advanced civilizations so that virtually none contains any relatively wealthy individuals who desire to run ancestor-simulations and are free to do so. If (3) is true, then we almost certainly live in a simulation. In the dark forest of our current ignorance, it seems sensible to apportion one’s credence roughly evenly between (1), (2), and (3). Unless we are now living in a simulation, our descendants will almost certainly never run an ancestor-simulation. ---
**Author:** ![Gin\_Bell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4af34b/32.png) [@Gin\_Bell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gin_Bell)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neutrinos-and-black-holes/6519/226 "2012-10-13T02:30:59Z")
> [@Pasta](#): > > Cite for that claim that an adult believing in Santa Claus is **not** a nutcase? but it’s still cute ---
**Author:** ![Gin\_Bell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4af34b/32.png) [@Gin\_Bell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gin_Bell)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neutrinos-and-black-holes/6519/227 "2012-10-13T02:35:31Z")
Btw, it appears there are few religious people on here. Is there any specific reasons for that I am missing? ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neutrinos-and-black-holes/6519/228 "2012-10-13T12:18:16Z")
Trying to avoid making a fool of myself in much more illustrious company. > [@AaronX](#): > > Since general relativity says gravity can be interpreted as acceleration, is there anything that isn’t affected by gravity? Not really. > [@](#): > > I mean, if you fire a massless spinless chargeless particle Pedanticly there is no such particle. But you could pick a photon and your question should remain valid. > [@](#): > > in a vacuum in an accelerating lift, how can the particle accelerate with the lift? It’ll continue on its original path and so be affected by gravity, right? The point is that it doesn’t accelerate with the lift. You, as the observer in the lift see this. That is why gravity is indistinguishable from acceleration. In all cases a moving particle simply follows the shortest path through space. If space is not flat the shortest path to the particle may not be the shortest path to you. If you are accelerating you will see behaviour identical to that as if space is curved by gravity. The moving particle always moves along what it sees as a straight line though space. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neutrinos-and-black-holes/6519/229 "2012-10-13T12:31:18Z")
> [@Gin\_Bell](#): > > I was like dude!!! Gimme some 😃 About the best answer you could give. The logic is so flaky it is well into the category of not making enough sense to even be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Gin\_Bell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4af34b/32.png) [@Gin\_Bell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gin_Bell)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neutrinos-and-black-holes/6519/230 "2012-10-13T19:04:48Z")
Anyways, pretty cool stuff… What’s up with these people anyways writing papers of this kind and then passing them off as science just because nobody is able to prove the contrary. If anything, this is just causing confusion. Which reminds me of another cool invention, [the God helmet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet)! Supposedly it will disturb brain activity which causes disturbed self awareness. People have reported a presence outside of their body, but logically there is no way to ever prove this. Still, I would give it a try if I had one 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Gin\_Bell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4af34b/32.png) [@Gin\_Bell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gin_Bell)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neutrinos-and-black-holes/6519/231 "2012-10-14T03:13:50Z")
Is there evidence that ants/ bees really have telepathy? ---
**Author:** ![Gin\_Bell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4af34b/32.png) [@Gin\_Bell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gin_Bell)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neutrinos-and-black-holes/6519/232 "2012-10-14T03:20:09Z")
Ants…I know that they are great telepaths for I have been talking to them for years. Oh! i do not give a whit, that this sounds flaky! Maybe I am flaky… but when dealing with ants… I have often spoken to them as a scientific experiment of my very own… what resulted was very interesting to me! > **[Scientists: Ants have internal pedometer](https://phys.org/news/2006-07-scientists-ants-internal-pedometer.html)** > > German researchers have discovered that desert ants appear to have an internal pedometer that guides them back to their nests. ---
**Author:** ![Gin\_Bell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4af34b/32.png) [@Gin\_Bell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gin_Bell)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neutrinos-and-black-holes/6519/233 "2012-10-14T03:30:24Z")
Given that ants are prolific where I live, and that I was practicing spiritual dynamics, i was led by my own heart to try the test i have mentioned. Here is what occurred. I would see them on countertops amongst various places when needing to clean there… I began to tap on the area… usually countertop. They usually ran away (some of them would stop). I then would announce telepathically (sometimes aloud too) that I am coming with the sponge, you guys better get lost. In time I would give them time limits like in five minutes I WILL BE BACK! I worked with this method over the years in various houses and with whatever sort of ants were local to the area. Well do you know that it worked out really amazingly? It was not as if every ant would run off, but the majority would always be gone in a heartbeat. The tapping was left off and the telepathic explored after time… This lessened verbal dialog to see if just mental forces would get similar results… (funny housewife I was). It always worked. Maybe this is not pure science but I think the results for me were amazing and it is something anyone may try without too much difficulty if there are ants in your neighborhood. We hardly have any around here, though last week my brother came to visit for several days with my family and all of a sudden we had ants for a couple of days too. Now that was very strange to me because they seemed to go away again when he did. That makes me wonder about the power of belief too, but in another way. Did he believe that there would be ants around here and then as a result there were? I told my daughter Sarah. Look we have ants all of a sudden! Must be Uncle Finn had ants in his pants when he showed up! (smile) - I just never figured they would stop hanging around when he left. Now this is really odd!! ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neutrinos-and-black-holes/6519/234 "2012-10-15T05:17:54Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > Trying to avoid making a fool of myself in much more illustrious company. > Not really. > Pedanticly there is no such particle. But you could pick a photon and your question should remain valid. > > The point is that it doesn’t accelerate with the lift. You, as the observer in the lift see this. That is why gravity is indistinguishable from acceleration. > > In all cases a moving particle simply follows the shortest path through space. If space is not flat the shortest path to the particle may not be the shortest path to you. If you are accelerating you will see behaviour identical to that as if space is curved by gravity. The moving particle always moves along what it sees as a straight line though space. So is it possible to have particles that aren’t affected by gravity? Because I’m reading your “not really” = it’s possible, but your explanation seems to say it’s impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neutrinos-and-black-holes/6519/235 "2012-10-15T08:40:14Z")
> [@AaronX](#): > > So is it possible to have particles that aren’t affected by gravity? Because I’m reading your “not really” = it’s possible, but your explanation seems to say it’s impossible. Just plain no AFAIK. ---
**Author:** ![Gin\_Bell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4af34b/32.png) [@Gin\_Bell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gin_Bell)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neutrinos-and-black-holes/6519/236 "2012-10-15T19:15:50Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > The moving particle always moves along what it sees as a straight line though space. It’s the same as when I go binge drinking and the copper tells me to get out of my car and walk the line. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neutrinos-and-black-holes/6519/237 "2012-10-15T20:47:36Z")
> [@Gin\_Bell](#): > > It’s the same as when I go binge drinking and the copper tells me to get out of my car and walk the line. Like alcohol, gravity distorts your measurements of space and time. Unlike alcohol, gravity never distorts your measurement of how attractive the person at the end of the bar is. ---
**Author:** ![Gin\_Bell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4af34b/32.png) [@Gin\_Bell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gin_Bell)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neutrinos-and-black-holes/6519/238 "2012-10-15T21:14:34Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Unlike alcohol, gravity never distorts your measurement of how attractive the person at the end of the bar is. Obviously alcohol is way cooler. 🆒 Btw, did you guys see this [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yjmnE1VwoA) in the news up there? What do you think would have happened if some girls would have pulled this in a MI church? Freedom of speech or disorderly conduct? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neutrinos-and-black-holes/6519/239 "2012-10-15T23:13:03Z")
This one has lived past it’s “Use by” date. Closed. **samclem** , moderator [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neutrinos-and-black-holes/6519.md?page=11)