# Nevada Cattle Rancher v Bureau of Land Management **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 11, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nevada-cattle-rancher-v-bureau-of-land-management/685886 "2014-04-11T17:28:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nevada-cattle-rancher-v-bureau-of-land-management/685886/41 "2014-04-12T18:43:15Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > Apparently it is. On August 25, 2013 the Huffington Post published an article about the Desert Tortoise Conservation Center which was suffering from such an overload of(mostly weak or sick) desert tortoises that it had euthanized large numbers of them. I am in doubt that cattle are causing the problem and suspect that the government is flexing its muscles. They have to cull sick animals to prevent them from spreading infection to the rest of the population - that’s pretty much the opposite of a successful refuge. Apparently the BLM is [ending the roundup](http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25230368/major-development-in-bunkerville-cattle-battle-between-cliven-bundy-and-blm). ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nevada-cattle-rancher-v-bureau-of-land-management/685886/42 "2014-04-12T19:06:00Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > They have to cull sick animals to prevent them from spreading infection to the rest of the population - that’s pretty much the opposite of a successful refuge. > > Apparently the BLM is [ending the roundup](http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25230368/major-development-in-bunkerville-cattle-battle-between-cliven-bundy-and-blm). It was the “not remotely true” that I was responding to. I expect more accuracy from enginerds! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nevada-cattle-rancher-v-bureau-of-land-management/685886/43 "2014-04-12T20:55:11Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > Apparently it is. On August 25, 2013 the Huffington Post published an article about the Desert Tortoise Conservation Center which was suffering from such an overload of(mostly weak or sick) desert tortoises that it had euthanized large numbers of them. This mis-states the situation with regards to the DTCC and the reasons they have for euthanizing some tortoises. They do not have an overload of turtles such that they cannot care for them, exactly. They have lost funding, so they do not have, or soon will not have, the means to care for ANY tortoises. As such, they are returning to the wild those that are healthy enough and able enough. They cannot care for the sick tortoises because they are running out of money, not because the number of tortoises overwhelmed them. It’s not like they were prepared to care for the 10,000 remaining desert tortoises and suddenly they found 1,000,000 of them wandering around the Las Vegas valley. In any case, your cite and Mr. Bundy are both being misleading about this, as the tortoises that may have been euthanized are not from the Gold Butte area and would perhaps (likely?) not have been returned there when re-introduced to the wild. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nevada-cattle-rancher-v-bureau-of-land-management/685886/44 "2014-04-12T21:04:40Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > Apparently the BLM is [ending the roundup](http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25230368/major-development-in-bunkerville-cattle-battle-between-cliven-bundy-and-blm). Yeah, because they’ve recieved so many threats and so much bad-mouthing from the very officials who should be supporting their efforts to end this jackass’s theft that they feel they cannot guarantee the safety of their rangers and the people they have hired to conduct the operation. I’m not at all happy about this development; I need a government that refuses to let lawlessness exist within it’s borders. If I was in charge, I’d show up with about 1000 armed men and tell Bundy and his supporters to shove it: the law and the court order will be enforced. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nevada-cattle-rancher-v-bureau-of-land-management/685886/45 "2014-04-12T21:10:06Z")
Let’s go down to the quarry and throw some government down there! LOL! ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nevada-cattle-rancher-v-bureau-of-land-management/685886/46 "2014-04-12T21:22:53Z")
I’m very relieved we haven’t had another Ruby Ridge or Waco. This situation was reaching a crisis point. Calling in SWAT teams and dozens of cops only inflames the situation. The Feds don’t need any more blood on their hands. All that does is create another incident the right wing groups can rally around. A lot of times situations like this are best handled locally. People respond better and trust people they know and grew up with. The Sheriff in this case deserves a lot of credit for avoiding a tragedy. [http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25231502/breaking-news-protesters-gather-on-i15-causing-traffic-delays-cliven-bundy-blm](http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25231502/breaking-news-protesters-gather-on-i15-causing-traffic-delays-cliven-bundy-blm) > [@](#): > > Sheriff Gillespie has been negotiating with Bundy behind the scenes for months and reached a tentative agreement Friday night, though Bundy insisted the sheriff come to his ranch to finalize the arrangement face-to-face. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nevada-cattle-rancher-v-bureau-of-land-management/685886/47 "2014-04-12T22:33:30Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m very relieved we haven’t had another Ruby Ridge or Waco. This situation was reaching a crisis point. Calling in SWAT teams and dozens of cops only inflames the situation. The Feds don’t need any more blood on their hands. All that does is create another incident the right wing groups can rally around. > > A lot of times situations like this are best handled locally. People respond better and trust people they know and grew up with. The Sheriff in this case deserves a lot of credit for avoiding a tragedy. > > [http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25231502/breaking-news-protesters-gather-on-i15-causing-traffic-delays-cliven-bundy-blm](http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25231502/breaking-news-protesters-gather-on-i15-causing-traffic-delays-cliven-bundy-blm) Fuck Gillespie. He’s been a shitty sheriff and this just shows the nation that Nevada (or at least Las Vegas) law enforcement is a joke. We don’t negotiate with terrorists, remember? I’d also like to know why 100 cattle are about to be released. [ > [@](#): > > The bureau also will release 100 of the seized cattle under a deal announced after protesters, some of them armed with handguns and rifles, headed for a corral outside Mesquite in an attempt to free all of the seized cattle, the Las Vegas Review-Journal reported. The bureau did not immediately return calls to The Associated Press. ]([http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US\_RANGE\_SHOWDOWN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-04-12-18-18-15](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_RANGE_SHOWDOWN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-04-12-18-18-15)) ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nevada-cattle-rancher-v-bureau-of-land-management/685886/48 "2014-04-12T22:49:51Z")
How many cattle did they take? ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nevada-cattle-rancher-v-bureau-of-land-management/685886/49 "2014-04-12T23:35:46Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m very relieved we haven’t had another Ruby Ridge or Waco. This situation was reaching a crisis point. Calling in SWAT teams and dozens of cops only inflames the situation. The Feds don’t need any more blood on their hands. All that does is create another incident the right wing groups can rally around. Another Ruby Ridge or Waco is just a matter of time, and when the BLM lets armed thugs prevent them from enforcing federal law and executing valid court orders they’re just speeding up the clock. > [@](#): > > A lot of times situations like this are best handled locally. People respond better and trust people they know and grew up with. The Sheriff in this case deserves a lot of credit for avoiding a tragedy. The cattle are on federal land and it’s a federal court order. It’s _not_ a local issue, and there’s no reason to handle it locally. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Fuck Gillespie. He’s been a shitty sheriff and this just shows the nation that Nevada (or at least Las Vegas) law enforcement is a joke. We don’t negotiate with terrorists, remember? > > I’d also like to know why 100 cattle are about to be released. > > [url=[http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US\_RANGE\_SHOWDOWN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-04-12-18-18-15](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_RANGE_SHOWDOWN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-04-12-18-18-15)] No shit. At this point, I’d be happy if the BLM just shot all 900 trespassing cattle from helicopters. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nevada-cattle-rancher-v-bureau-of-land-management/685886/50 "2014-04-13T00:44:04Z")
May have been a better approach to seize the rancher’s financial assets instead of his herd of cattle. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nevada-cattle-rancher-v-bureau-of-land-management/685886/51 "2014-04-13T02:53:39Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > May have been a better approach to seize the rancher’s financial assets instead of his herd of cattle. He might not have much in the way of financial assets. A lot of ranchers poor basically all their money into their herds. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nevada-cattle-rancher-v-bureau-of-land-management/685886/52 "2014-04-13T03:25:47Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > Another Ruby Ridge or Waco is just a matter of time, and when the BLM lets armed thugs prevent them from enforcing federal law and executing valid court orders they’re just speeding up the clock. Yep. All this does is empower the militia groups, the freemen, etc. Now they know that as long as they don’t back down, the government will. How long until that “knowledge” leads to actual shots fired? It’ll be interesting to see, eh. > [@Little\_Pig](#): > > May have been a better approach to seize the rancher’s financial assets instead of his herd of cattle. The cattle are his financial assets. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nevada-cattle-rancher-v-bureau-of-land-management/685886/53 "2014-04-13T03:26:23Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > This mis-states the situation with regards to the DTCC and the reasons they have for euthanizing some tortoises. They do not have an overload of turtles such that they cannot care for them, exactly. They have lost funding, so they do not have, or soon will not have, the means to care for ANY tortoises. As such, they are returning to the wild those that are healthy enough and able enough. They cannot care for the sick tortoises because they are running out of money, not because the number of tortoises overwhelmed them. It’s not like they were prepared to care for the 10,000 remaining desert tortoises and suddenly they found 1,000,000 of them wandering around the Las Vegas valley. > > In any case, your cite and Mr. Bundy are both being misleading about this, as the tortoises that may have been euthanized are not from the Gold Butte area and would perhaps (likely?) not have been returned there when re-introduced to the wild. As I understand the government has no intention of using that land at present. And probably rightly so if they weren’t actually rescuing tortoises off it in the first place. But where did you find the quote about where the tortoises came from? I had wondered about that and couldn’t find one. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nevada-cattle-rancher-v-bureau-of-land-management/685886/54 "2014-04-13T03:34:15Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > As I understand the government has no intention of using that land at present. And probably rightly so if they weren’t actually rescuing tortoises off it in the first place. The idea isn’t to “rescue” endangered and/or threatened species by removing them from their natural habitat; the idea is for people and their domestic animals to stop tearing up the natural habitat of endangered and/or threatened species. > [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > But where did you find the quote about where the tortoises came from? I had wondered about that and couldn’t find one. In the article you referenced. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nevada-cattle-rancher-v-bureau-of-land-management/685886/55 "2014-04-13T03:40:31Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > No shit. At this point, I’d be happy if the BLM just shot all 900 trespassing cattle from helicopters. Does Nellis Air Force Base need a new bombing range? I bet the area’s birds of prey would love some roast beef. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nevada-cattle-rancher-v-bureau-of-land-management/685886/56 "2014-04-13T03:44:45Z")
I wish common sense would have prevailed and they just let the guy finish out his career. I think they said he’s 67? He probably won’t be ranching in 15 years. We’re talking about unused land with little value anyway. When he dies the feds can claim the estate for back land lease fees, interest etc. He’ll be the last generation in the family to ranch there. He makes a good point that several generations have ranched that land. That’s getting pretty rare these days. Fed bureaucracy like BLM and other agencies are one reason we’re losing this way of life. Passing on a farm or a ranch to your kids just doesn’t happen as much anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nevada-cattle-rancher-v-bureau-of-land-management/685886/57 "2014-04-13T03:47:59Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > In the article you referenced. Thank you. This story gets more involved by the minute. I just read in “U. S. Finance Post,” and confirmed by Reuters, that Harry Reid is involved. His son, Rory, is a representative of a Chinese energy company which wants to build a solar plant on that land. ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nevada-cattle-rancher-v-bureau-of-land-management/685886/58 "2014-04-13T04:12:19Z")
This is the same tired nonsense that goes on throughout Nevada every now and then when people who have been take advantage of the general public for a long time get called on it and they fall back on their theories of “historical grazing rights” to justify the fact they are using land which everybody owns but for which they have to pay to use for business. Grazing laws in the Western US are well established. Every rancher out there knows the laws and the majority adhere to them whether they think those laws are “fair” or not. A few don’t and they cause a commotion which eventually dies down or out when the public stops paying attention. What is really lame about this protest is that a pair of Native American sisters (the Dann sisters) in Northern Nevada in the 1990s undertook a similar protest and there weren’t the armed right-wing crackpots blocking highways and spouting off to assist them. Wonder why not? Reference: > **[Mary Dann and Carrie Dann](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Dann_and_Carrie_Dann)** > > The Dann Sisters, Mary Dann (1923–2005) and Carrie Dann (1932–2021), were Western Shoshone elders who were spiritual leaders, ranchers, and cultural, spiritual rights and land rights activists. They challenged the federal government over uses of their tribe's traditional land, in a case that reached the United States Supreme Court as U.S. v. Dann. > In 1993 the Dann sisters received the Right Livelihood Award for "exemplary courage and perseverance in asserting the rights of indigenous people to t... ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nevada-cattle-rancher-v-bureau-of-land-management/685886/59 "2014-04-13T04:36:34Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > Thank you. > > This story gets more involved by the minute. I just read in “U. S. Finance Post,” and confirmed by Reuters, that Harry Reid is involved. His son, Rory, is a representative of a Chinese energy company which wants to build a solar plant on that land. Is there a reason that you continue to post referencing a story you read but don’t offer a link to said story? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nevada-cattle-rancher-v-bureau-of-land-management/685886/60 "2014-04-13T04:41:30Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I wish common sense would have prevailed and they just let the guy finish out his career. I think they said he’s 67? He probably won’t be ranching in 15 years. We’re talking about unused land with little value anyway. When he dies the feds can claim the estate for back land lease fees, interest etc. He’ll be the last generation in the family to ranch there. > > He makes a good point that several generations have ranched that land. That’s getting pretty rare these days. Fed bureaucracy like BLM and other agencies are one reason we’re losing this way of life. Passing on a farm or a ranch to your kids just doesn’t happen as much anymore. Except if I’m not mistaken, he has an adult son that also ranches cattle there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nevada-cattle-rancher-v-bureau-of-land-management/685886.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nevada-cattle-rancher-v-bureau-of-land-management/685886.md?page=4)