# Never Forget 9/11 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 11, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-forget-9-11/668580 "2013-09-11T16:51:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![KaylaLynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@KaylaLynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KaylaLynn)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-forget-9-11/668580/101 "2013-09-14T13:47:33Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Whatever. If holding onto hate forever is your idea of “honoring” anybody, then that’s your prerogative. I find it disgusting. I find it sad. It’s the exact same pathetic and self-harming mash-up of patriotism, parochialism, hatred and martyr-worship that leads crazies to decide to hijack planes and blow up buildings. > > You sound like a teenager who lacks any sense of perspective; “he broke up with me, and it is the worst. Thing. Ever. I am going to be sad for the rest of my life!!!1” > > You are making a conscious choice to embrace hatred forever. You know who else does that? Terrorists. And Hitler. I see we have a bunch of drama queens here. The filthy bastards declared World War Three on NYC, and I hate them. I’m not in favor of war, but I’m not going to turn the other cheek either. I do plenty to make the world a better place, and comparing me to Hitler, just tells me that you’re stupid and/or very young and naive. Maybe when they come and blow up YOUR city, you’ll get a better perspective. ---
**Author:** ![KaylaLynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@KaylaLynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KaylaLynn)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-forget-9-11/668580/102 "2013-09-14T13:52:43Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > They committed a horrendous crime. Then _we_ decided to call it a war. And as soon as we did that, we lost. See the Cracked link. They spent $500,000 and we decided to spend $5 trillion mostly killing people who had nothing to do with it. Our hate made us into losers. Yes, we lost a ton of money and plenty of soldiers. War is bad, ugly, and evil. What do you propose the President should have done, just said “oh well”, and left it at that? I’m curious, is there a “naughty chair” out there, where we could put them on a time-out until they learned not to BOMB the USA with our own planes? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-forget-9-11/668580/103 "2013-09-14T14:04:09Z")
> [@KaylaLynn](#): > > Yes, we lost a ton of money and plenty of soldiers. War is bad, ugly, and evil. > What do you propose the President should have done, just said “oh well”, and left it at that? I’m curious, is there a “naughty chair” out there, where we could put them on a time-out until they learned not to BOMB the USA with our own planes? You’re joking, right? (1) It’s only a “war” because _we_ decided to call it a war. The bombers didn’t “declare war.” Framing it as a war was to our _detriment_, not to our benefit. (2) I propose that the president should have done what we do whenever someone commits a terrible crime—_arrest and put on trial the people who were responsible_. It’s so simple a child could tell you. Instead, what we did—what we _chose_ to do, no one forced us to—was a bizarre series of policy decisions that resulted in needless death and suffering for millions of people and a tremendous cost to ourselves, in terms of money, resources, lives, and our own morality, reputation, and freedoms. _We handed victory to the terrorists voluntarily and for no good reason_. Osama bin Laden could not have dreamed of a better outcome. ---
**Author:** ![KaylaLynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@KaylaLynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KaylaLynn)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-forget-9-11/668580/104 "2013-09-14T14:09:11Z")
> [@For You](#): > > The dead are, like, done dancing, they no longer care about anything. If you genuinely want to honor their memory, do what ever you can to make the world a better place. A place where anger no longer boils up into suicidal rage and spills blood all over everyone’s table. A place where no one feels a desire to commit acts of terror. Killing or torturing people, even assholes, does not get us closer to that place. Letting your anger simmer and sputter helps no one, least of all you. Heal yourself, as a step toward getting everyone healed. Here’s a little history lesson for you. There have been wars since the beginning of time, and there will be wars until the end of time. I’m certainly not in favor of war, but I’m not in favor of forgetting what happened on 9/11. I’m in favor of learning from it, and making sure that these sick fucks never get a chance to bomb America again. As far as the hate that I feel for those who destroyed the towers and all the people in it, that’s my business. I don’t tell anyone else what to feel, so go hug them and make them cupcakes, it’s fine with me. This is just my personal opinion, to never forget or forgive, I don’t tell anyone else how to feel. Got it? Good. ---
**Author:** ![KaylaLynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@KaylaLynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KaylaLynn)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-forget-9-11/668580/105 "2013-09-14T14:16:55Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > You’re joking, right? > > (1) It’s only a “war” because _we_ decided to call it a war. The bombers didn’t “declare war.” Framing it as a war was to our _detriment_, not to our benefit. > > (2) I propose that the president should have done what we do whenever someone commits a terrible crime—_arrest and put on trial the people who were responsible_. It’s so simple a child could tell you. > > Instead, what we did—what we _chose_ to do, no one forced us to—was a bizarre series of policy decisions that resulted in needless death and suffering for millions of people and a tremendous cost to ourselves, in terms of money, resources, lives, and our own morality, reputation, and freedoms. > > _We handed victory to the terrorists voluntarily and for no good reason_. Osama bin Laden could not have dreamed of a better outcome. Yes, they certainly won. I’m glad we could agree on something. However, if we put the dead terrorists who flew the planes into the towers on trial, then the message is that it’s fine and dandy to bomb the Empire State Building next, then the Statue of Liberty, then maybe the Golden Gate Bridge, just to give the West Coast a taste of what it’s like. Sadly, there is no easy answer, I don’t have one, and either do you. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-forget-9-11/668580/106 "2013-09-14T14:22:34Z")
> [@KaylaLynn](#): > > However, if we put the dead terrorists who flew the planes into the towers on trial, then the message is that it’s fine and dandy to bomb the Empire State Building next, then the Statue of Liberty, then maybe the Golden Gate Bridge, just to give the West Coast a taste of what it’s like. That’s an odd message to take away. I would think that the message would be: you will be caught, you will be tried, and you will spend the rest of your life in solitary confinement in a 9x12 cell in Florence, Colorado. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-forget-9-11/668580/107 "2013-09-14T14:35:19Z")
> [@KaylaLynn](#): > > Hating those who started a war on American soil is just something I’ll have to live with… till the day I die. I’ll never forget what I saw that day, all the people that were shoeless and covered in dust as they walked past my building like freaking shell-shocked zombies. > I honor the dead, and I honor our soldiers, so think what you like, I’ll stay “miserable”, and you can stay how you are. How’s that? Care to explain who “they” are that we’re supposed to hate? How can we tell them from innocent people? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-forget-9-11/668580/108 "2013-09-14T15:21:07Z")
> [@KaylaLynn](#): > > Yes, they certainly won. I’m glad we could agree on something. > However, if we put the dead terrorists who flew the planes into the towers on trial, then the message is that it’s fine and dandy to bomb the Empire State Building next, then the Statue of Liberty, then maybe the Golden Gate Bridge, just to give the West Coast a taste of what it’s like. > Sadly, there is no easy answer, I don’t have one, and either do you. This is a bizarre series of strawmen, fallacies, and non sequitur. I can say with confidence that what we did do was the wrong thing to do and plenty of people knew that it was wrong all along. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-forget-9-11/668580/109 "2013-09-14T16:52:45Z")
> [@KaylaLynn](#): > > I see we have a bunch of drama queens here. \ > Maybe when they come and blow up YOUR city, you’ll get a better perspective. The irony of these two sentences in the same post is quite amazing. Enjoy your hate, dear. It’s certainly not making you any more coherent. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-forget-9-11/668580/110 "2013-09-14T18:11:17Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Enjoy your hate, dear. It’s certainly not making you any more coherent. Which is exactly why “enjoy your hate” is the wrong approach. Hate makes people irrational, we have enough problems as it is without countenancing irrationality. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-forget-9-11/668580/111 "2013-09-14T21:47:06Z")
Next June 28th will be the hundredth anniversary of a bad thing that, arguably, precipitated decades of major ugliness. Perhaps we should honor those dead, by painting our hands black, or something. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-forget-9-11/668580/112 "2013-09-14T22:28:03Z")
> [@KaylaLynn](#): > > ?.. > Maybe when they come and blow up YOUR city, you’ll get a better perspective. I’m from DC and my sister worked at the Pentagon, am I entitled to an opinion? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-forget-9-11/668580/113 "2013-09-14T22:41:42Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > At least as far as I can tell, stores have not started to market 9/11 yet, using it merely as a means to sell something. I worked at a grocery store at the time, and for a short while, they stocked “United We Stand Hand Soap.” It ended up on the clearance table because people refused to buy it. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-forget-9-11/668580/114 "2013-09-15T00:57:09Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I’m from DC and my sister worked at the Pentagon, am I entitled to an opinion? Of course not. NYC is THE most important thing in the world, and The Pentagon houses the dastardly villains who coordinate the conflicts and offenses that inspired the hijackers–The Pentagon _deserved_ it. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-forget-9-11/668580/115 "2013-09-15T16:09:01Z")
> [@KaylaLynn](#): > > I wish I could forget, but I never will, and I’ll never stop hating those who want to see America destroyed. ( You sound like those people who cannot be happy unless they are pissed off. It is not healthy for you or for the world. Your attitude leads to generations after generations of hate and war. It leads to children being miserable because their parents thought it was more important to hate than to make a better world for their children. And, “those who want to see America destroyed”? Who are they exactly? Because the attackers of 9/11/2001 were private individuals whose complaint against America was that American forces were stationed and meddling in Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern countries. Germany and Japan attacked the United States some years ago. Do you still hate those countries? The damage they did to America was infinitely greater than what was done in 9/11. Do you still hate them? If not why not? In the last sixty years America has not been attacked by any country and yet it has been attacking and subverting other countries pretty much continously. The killings and the damage done by America to other peoples is much, much greater than anything America has suffered. Does it surprise you that many people around the world hate what America does to them? What do you think gives America the right to kill others around the world and yet be immune from retaliation? It is irrational people like you who have taken America down a very ugly and evil path. The unjustified wars with all the killing and misery are orders of magnitude more evil than anything America has suffered. The tortures, the abuse of Human Rights, the erosion of civil rights and liberties, these are not the acts of a free people who believe in their principles, they are the acts of a cowardly and terrified country that has lost all reason and is just thrashing around in the hope of spreading the misery they feel they are experiencing without realizing America is still a privileged country in every way possible. The land of the brave? In Spanish we say “Tell me what you boast and I’ll tell you what you lack”. Look at other countries. Look at the terrorist attacks in London or Madrid. Did those people lose their grip and go crazy like America did?. No. It was Keep Calm. Carry on. Stiff upper lip. Catch the perpetrators and afford them a trial with all the protections of the law. No torture. No secret suspension of rights. No hate or curtailing of rights of minorities. That is valor. That is showing and proving what your values and principles really are. America talks nice but other countries are the ones doing the right thing while America ditches everything it says it stands for. If I were an American I would be ashamed of what my country was doing. As a Spaniard I am very proud to say Spain did the right thing by catching the criminals and putting them on trial and not taking shortcuts with due process which was fully guaranteed to all. America can only talk about behaving like this but when the time comes all principles go out the window. And there has been no significant anti-Muslim feeling or rhetoric in Spain. America boasts principles which it does not abide or respect while other countries are doing the right thing and do not feel the need to boast about it. America needs to keep repeating to itself that they are the best because they know very well it is not so. America has become what it said it was fighting against. Some years ago the government in Spain took some extra-legal measures to fight terrorists and killed some terrorists in a “dirty war”, with no judicial process. It is to the credit of Spain and its people that when this was exposed the government officials who had broken the law were prosecuted, found guilty and sentenced to jail. Because the people of Spain believe in Human Rights and in the rule of law for everybody, including terrorists. Now, that is true valor and not just shitting your pants and demanding the government “do something” no matter how illegal or repugnant. > [@](#): > > Lots of you are a heckuva lot smarter than I am You got that right. People with your attitude set back civilization. If your attitude is that America should go around the world killing people and sowing misery than don’t be surprised if some of those people hate you and want to do you harm. Mostly they do not want to “destroy America”, mostly they want America to stop imposing itself on them and leave them alone. But if you live by the sword you better be prepared to die by the sword. ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-forget-9-11/668580/116 "2013-09-15T17:36:03Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > You sound like those people who cannot be happy unless they are pissed off. It is not healthy for you or for the world. Your attitude leads to generations after generations of hate and war. It leads to children being miserable because their parents thought it was more important to hate than to make a better world for their children. > > And, “those who want to see America destroyed”? Who are they exactly? Because the attackers of 9/11/2001 were private individuals whose complaint against America was that American forces were stationed and meddling in Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern countries. > > Germany and Japan attacked the United States some years ago. Do you still hate those countries? The damage they did to America was infinitely greater than what was done in 9/11. Do you still hate them? If not why not? > > In the last sixty years America has not been attacked by any country and yet it has been attacking and subverting other countries pretty much continously. The killings and the damage done by America to other peoples is much, much greater than anything America has suffered. Does it surprise you that many people around the world hate what America does to them? What do you think gives America the right to kill others around the world and yet be immune from retaliation? > It is irrational people like you who have taken America down a very ugly and evil path. The unjustified wars with all the killing and misery are orders of magnitude more evil than anything America has suffered. > > The tortures, the abuse of Human Rights, the erosion of civil rights and liberties, these are not the acts of a free people who believe in their principles, they are the acts of a cowardly and terrified country that has lost all reason and is just thrashing around in the hope of spreading the misery they feel they are experiencing without realizing America is still a privileged country in every way possible. > > The land of the brave? In Spanish we say “Tell me what you boast and I’ll tell you what you lack”. > > Look at other countries. Look at the terrorist attacks in London or Madrid. Did those people lose their grip and go crazy like America did?. No. It was Keep Calm. Carry on. Stiff upper lip. Catch the perpetrators and afford them a trial with all the protections of the law. No torture. No secret suspension of rights. No hate or curtailing of rights of minorities. That is valor. That is showing and proving what your values and principles really are. America talks nice but other countries are the ones doing the right thing while America ditches everything it says it stands for. If I were an American I would be ashamed of what my country was doing. As a Spaniard I am very proud to say Spain did the right thing by catching the criminals and putting them on trial and not taking shortcuts with due process which was fully guaranteed to all. America can only talk about behaving like this but when the time comes all principles go out the window. And there has been no significant anti-Muslim feeling or rhetoric in Spain. America boasts principles which it does not abide or respect while other countries are doing the right thing and do not feel the need to boast about it. America needs to keep repeating to itself that they are the best because they know very well it is not so. America has become what it said it was fighting against. > > Some years ago the government in Spain took some extra-legal measures to fight terrorists and killed some terrorists in a “dirty war”, with no judicial process. It is to the credit of Spain and its people that when this was exposed the government officials who had broken the law were prosecuted, found guilty and sentenced to jail. Because the people of Spain believe in Human Rights and in the rule of law for everybody, including terrorists. Now, that is true valor and not just shitting your pants and demanding the government “do something” no matter how illegal or repugnant. > You got that right. People with your attitude set back civilization. > > If your attitude is that America should go around the world killing people and sowing misery than don’t be surprised if some of those people hate you and want to do you harm. > > Mostly they do not want to “destroy America”, mostly they want America to stop imposing itself on them and leave them alone. > > But if you live by the sword you better be prepared to die by the sword. Quoted in it’s entirety because maybe, just maybe if it’s read/said over and over and fucking over it might sink in. Nah… ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-forget-9-11/668580/117 "2013-09-15T17:45:05Z")
More kudos for \*\*sailor \*\*there. Great post. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-forget-9-11/668580/118 "2013-09-15T18:13:44Z")
Another thumbs up to **sailor** for that excellent post. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-forget-9-11/668580/119 "2013-09-16T09:31:59Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > At least as far as I can tell, stores have not started to market 9/11 yet, using it merely as a means to sell something. At least not so much in the U.S. But South Korea has [its own 9/11](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.glennbeck.com/publish/uploads/2011/12/mvrdv-towers2.jpeg&imgrefurl=http://www.glennbeck.com/2011/12/09/the-most-offensive-building-ever-south-koreas-911/&h=348&w=474&sz=30&tbnid=11Kn8u22Z5r7jM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=123&zoom=1&usg=__Rl6dZ7FTzqE6BkYSkdkB4s5DoH4=&docid=D1D8k3Vz_wp4uM&sa=X&ei=Ts82UuidFKnW2wX53ICICA&ved=0CDAQ9QEwAA&dur=116). It’s even causing me to agree with Glenn Beck. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-forget-9-11/668580/120 "2013-09-16T10:23:08Z")
> [@KaylaLynn](#): > > Maybe when they come and blow up YOUR city, you’ll get a better perspective. I live in London. I was on the Underground 15 minutes before the bombs went off on July 7, 2005, one of which was about a mile from where I am right now. And when I first moved here from America in 1996, the IRA were still bombing the city too. A bomb went off outside the building across the street from where I am right now, killing two people. Another went off on a bus I regularly took. The police foiled a plan to commit a series of firebombings down the street where I was living. So I think I have a _little_ perspective on this. And my perspective is this: the way to fight terror is not to be afraid or angry. _Because that’s what the terrorists want._ They don’t really expect the entirety of Western civilization to collapse from a few explosions; what they want is for us to be scared and angry and irrational and to do the exact sort of stupid shit that America did in the aftermath of 9/11. When you let the terrorists live in your head, they win. The better response is, as **sailor** said, to keep calm, don’t react in fear or anger, carry on with day-to-day life as much as possible and send the message back to the evildoers “Hey, fuck you, bad guys - I’m having tea!”. Thus do **we** win. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-forget-9-11/668580.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-forget-9-11/668580.md?page=7)