# (Never) Shuffling the Deck at Casinos... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 16, 2017, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-shuffling-the-deck-at-casinos/786749 "2017-05-16T14:41:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-shuffling-the-deck-at-casinos/786749/1 "2017-05-16T14:41:54Z")
I went to a casino about ten years ago. I guess I can tell you the whole story. They had opened up a casino in Windsor, Canada, across the Detroit River, opposite Detroit. (Detroiters were first opposed to a casino in Detroit. Crime corruption and all that. But then they got jealous of Windsor’s. So now we have one in Detroit too. I digress.) Anyways, one thing I noticed in Windsor–and just about any other place that has a casino, is they never shuffle the deck. They typically take it out of a wooden box. Why? I actually have this theory, if you want to hear it. I think the dealer memorizes the order of the deck, so the game is essentially always rigged in the casino’s favor. You don’t make money in a casino folks. The casino is the one that makes all the money. Sad, but true. Yeah, those dealers, even in Canada, looked a little shady too, I noticed. Slicked back hair, and with that certain look in their eye, if you know what I mean. I know, FWIW, I did hear on TV, slot machines are clearly rigged. In fact they are made to look like you are always coming ever so close to winning. But you almost never do. Oh, once in a great while there is a pay-out. But have you ever been to a casino? The finest marble, the choicest brass fixtures. They plainly know what they are doing. And they take advantage of people’s greed–and desperation, sometimes. Anyone else ever noticed what I just said. We got educate people about this, so they know. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-shuffling-the-deck-at-casinos/786749/2 "2017-05-16T14:46:55Z")
I’m going to assume that the smiley face means that you are saying this tongue-in-cheek. You can’t be serious. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-shuffling-the-deck-at-casinos/786749/3 "2017-05-16T15:00:47Z")
All casinos are “rigged” by this definition. The odds are set so that the casino always makes more on average than any winners. But no dealers are memorizing cards. You don’t need to. You only have to know the odds. They don’t shuffle decks because they only use them once and then toss them out (actually they sell the used decks in the gift shop). ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-shuffling-the-deck-at-casinos/786749/4 "2017-05-16T15:03:26Z")
I’ve played a lot of games in a lot of different casinos and have never seen them deal one hand and then throw the deck away. Of course the decks are shuffled. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-shuffling-the-deck-at-casinos/786749/5 "2017-05-16T15:06:35Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > All casinos are “rigged” by this definition. The odds are set so that the casino always makes more on average than any winners. But no dealers are memorizing cards. You don’t need to. You only have to know the odds. > > They don’t shuffle decks because they only use them once and then toss them out (actually they sell the used decks in the gift shop). Also, while I can’t speak for poker, it’s my understanding that in blackjack the dealer doesn’t get to choose when to hit and when to stay. House rules dictate that. So even if the dealer wanted to count cards (from a six deck shoe) it wouldn’t matter. This is, of course, assuming a dealer isn’t helping a player cheat. That would be different. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-shuffling-the-deck-at-casinos/786749/6 "2017-05-16T15:07:49Z")
I am shocked — shocked ! ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-shuffling-the-deck-at-casinos/786749/7 "2017-05-16T15:10:57Z")
The games themselves are not rigged. The way casinos make money is based on the payouts. For example, a bet on a single number in roulette usually pays 35:1 if you win. However, there are 38 spaces hence a 1:38 chance of winning. Even with a perfectly balanced wheel, the casino will come out far ahead of its patrons in the long run because of this difference. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-shuffling-the-deck-at-casinos/786749/8 "2017-05-16T15:19:43Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > I went to a casino about ten years ago. I guess I can tell you the whole story. They had opened up a casino in Windsor, Canada, across the Detroit River, opposite Detroit. (Detroiters were first opposed to a casino in Detroit. Crime corruption and all that. But then they got jealous of Windsor’s. So now we have one in Detroit too. I digress.) There are THREE casinos in Detroit; Greektown, Motor City, and MGM. They’re all pretty close together, too. > [@](#): > > Anyways, one thing I noticed in Windsor–and just about any other place that has a casino, is they never shuffle the deck. They typically take it out of a wooden box. They are removing the cards from an auto shuffler, which is next to the table. The autoshuffler holds two full shoes of cards (usually six decks.) When they’re done with a shoe, the cards are put into the auto shuffler and shuffled, and that shoe is left there while the other shoe is played. When the shoe being played is done, a box is removed from the auto shuffler and the cards taken out, and the used up cards are put into the auto shuffler. ---
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-shuffling-the-deck-at-casinos/786749/9 "2017-05-16T15:28:39Z")
My experience in Nevada casinos is that the dealers want the customer to win. When the customer wins, they sometimes give tips to the dealers. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-shuffling-the-deck-at-casinos/786749/10 "2017-05-16T15:56:40Z")
(Correction: I went to the Casino in Windsor about **20 years ago**. Yeah, my family and I were there to see the Detroit-Windsor fireworks. We had a great time too, I remember. Carry on:).) ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-shuffling-the-deck-at-casinos/786749/11 "2017-05-16T16:06:27Z")
I agree that what the OP is missing is the auto-shuffler. Many years ago, dealers would have to take breaks and shuffle the cards. That means several minutes when there is no money being wagered. Now, the auto-shufflers shuffle one (or more) decks while play is going on. There is no downtime, which means more bets per hour, which means more revenue for the house. You can still find one- or two-deck blackjack tables where the cards are shuffled and dealt the old-fashioned way, but they are becoming fairly rare. Dealers do not know the order of the cards, or what is coming next. As mentioned, the dealers like when players win, so they get tips. But they don’t cheat one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-shuffling-the-deck-at-casinos/786749/12 "2017-05-16T16:33:00Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > I actually have this theory, if you want to hear it. I think the dealer memorizes the order of the deck, so the game is essentially always rigged in the casino’s favor. What game was this? Blackjack? In Blackjack, it doesn’t matter if the dealer has the cards memorized. Is there any casino game where it would be advantageous to the house if the dealer knew the order of the deck? I don’t know all the games, but in blackjack and poker it wouldn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-shuffling-the-deck-at-casinos/786749/13 "2017-05-16T16:38:53Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > What game was this? Blackjack? > > In Blackjack, it doesn’t matter if the dealer has the cards memorized. > > Is there any casino game where it would be advantageous to the house if the dealer knew the order of the deck? I don’t know all the games, but in blackjack and poker it wouldn’t matter. Nor in Mississippi Stud or Three Card Poker, either. Or War (yes the children’s game - I played it once in a casino). I can’t think of a game where the dealer has discretion. They are subject to game rules, which makes everything more consistent and reliable and fair. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-shuffling-the-deck-at-casinos/786749/14 "2017-05-16T16:42:59Z")
if they shuffle all these decks of cards together, how come I never get a hand of four ace of spades? ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-shuffling-the-deck-at-casinos/786749/15 "2017-05-16T16:47:23Z")
> [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](#): > > if they shuffle all these decks of cards together, how come I never get a hand of four ace of spades? It does happen. Most people don’t pay attention to suits when playing blackjack, but if you are playing with a 4- or 6-deck shoe, it can certainly happen. I also have to amend my previous post. I was confusing automatic shufflers and continuous shufflers. Automatic shufflers have been used for many years, but continuous shufflers are relatively new and allow continuous play with no breaks. [http://www.readybetgo.com/blackjack/strategy/blackjack-shufflers-2819.html](http://www.readybetgo.com/blackjack/strategy/blackjack-shufflers-2819.html) > **[Blackjack - Shuffling - Wizard of Odds](https://wizardofodds.com/ask-the-wizard/blackjack/shuffling/)** > > The Wizard of Odds answers readers' questions about Blackjack. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-shuffling-the-deck-at-casinos/786749/16 "2017-05-16T17:47:33Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > They are subject to game rules, which makes everything more consistent and reliable and fair. Boring, too. MBAs like boring. MBAs are remarkably like toddlers: They enjoy shiny things, not sharing their toys, and a comfortable routine. Naps and snacks probably figure somewhere in there, too; I know programmers enjoy those. A good casino is Disneyland: A well-oiled machine with a thin veneer of branding, running according to established rules with as little variation as humanly possible. They both run on mathematical and psychological models, casinos more than Disneyland, and they’re both geared towards somewhat irresponsible people, with Disneyland being built for small children and casinos being built for drunk adults. Keeping large numbers of addled individuals from tearing up the place is a delicate dance which requires planning and smooth execution. Criminality, beyond the Enron-style book-cooking and other white-collar offenses, would just introduce chaos into a stable and well-planned system. Cheating is a bad risk, that’s all, and completely unnecessary from a simple mathematical perspective. Besides, card-counters could command commensurate compensation, cutting the casino’s corporate cashflow. And it would take a lot of c-notes to keep them quiet about the scam, too.