# Never volunteer. Never refuse. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 12, 2011, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-volunteer-never-refuse/567315 "2011-01-12T05:55:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Oly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oly/32/8255_2.png) [@Oly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oly)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-volunteer-never-refuse/567315/1 "2011-01-12T05:55:32Z")
Has anyone else heard this maxim? I heard it once a long time ago from an Indian orthopedic surgeon, who credited it to the British Army. It has always served me well. I have at times found it useful, however, to append that if one is to violate half of the dictum, better the second than the first. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-volunteer-never-refuse/567315/2 "2011-01-12T06:20:31Z")
The only similar Britishism I have heard is supposedly the code of a gentleman: “Never complain, never explain.” ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-volunteer-never-refuse/567315/3 "2011-01-12T10:41:54Z")
Can’t say I’ve heard the saying. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-volunteer-never-refuse/567315/4 "2011-01-12T10:50:51Z")
Volunteer and refuse what? Information? Or actions? As for me, I’ve found “it’s easier to ask forgiveness than permission” to be a reliable standby. ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-volunteer-never-refuse/567315/5 "2011-01-12T11:14:35Z")
Does it mean ‘don’t put yourself forward to do anything, but if someone asks you to do it, do it’? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-volunteer-never-refuse/567315/6 "2011-01-12T12:00:42Z")
> [@sandra\_nz](#): > > Does it mean ‘don’t put yourself forward to do anything, but if someone asks you to do it, do it’? That’s my understanding of it, FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-volunteer-never-refuse/567315/7 "2011-01-12T12:29:41Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Volunteer and refuse what? Information? Or actions? For \*anything \*optional that other people suggest you might do, whether for a suicide mission spying out the Punjab or carrying half a ton of paper from one office to another. I’ve only heard of it connected to the British Army; but obviously it’s more in the line of folk wisdom than official policy from the organization suggesting you do such onorous things… ---
**Author:** ![Anonymous\_Coward](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@Anonymous\_Coward](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anonymous_Coward)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-volunteer-never-refuse/567315/8 "2011-01-12T13:36:34Z")
This is a commonly known concept in the Armed Forces usually learnt early in the boot camp process. You want to avoid being noticed by the the NCOs because getting noticed means more work. Basically by following this maxim you learn to become part of the herd and work is distributed more evenly. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-volunteer-never-refuse/567315/9 "2011-01-12T13:41:52Z")
> [@Anonymous\_Coward](#): > > This is a commonly known concept in the Armed Forces usually learnt early in the boot camp process. You want to avoid being noticed by the the NCOs because getting noticed means more work. Basically by following this maxim you learn to become part of the herd and work is distributed more evenly. But, if you do stick your neck out and suffer the resulting increased work-load, aren’t you more likely to be promoted yourself (assuming you aren’t killed)? I can’t say I fully get behind this maxim. It certainly may make for a longer and more comfortable life, but I hardly think it makes for a more virtuous one. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-volunteer-never-refuse/567315/10 "2011-01-12T13:57:16Z")
It might be the way to go if you’re living or working in a dysfunctional organization, but it’s not good advice for living because it suggests you should fly under the radar by being lazy and spineless. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-volunteer-never-refuse/567315/11 "2011-01-12T15:04:28Z")
> [@Anonymous\_Coward](#): > > This is a commonly known concept in the Armed Forces usually learnt early in the boot camp process. You want to avoid being noticed by the the NCOs because getting noticed means more work. Basically by following this maxim you learn to become part of the herd and work is distributed more evenly. Someone gave me this little gem when I was off to basic training. I considered the character of the source and promptly discarded it. I stepped forward every time volunteers were sought, and after a week was fairly completely ignored by the drill sergeants who were more focused on motivating the shiftless and teaching the joys of teamwork. But I still like the saying. It sorts the chiefs from the Indians. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-volunteer-never-refuse/567315/12 "2011-01-12T15:16:44Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It might be the way to go if you’re living or working in a dysfunctional organization, but it’s not good advice for living because it suggests you should fly under the radar by being lazy and spineless. Eagles may soar but weasles don’t get sucked into jet engines… ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-volunteer-never-refuse/567315/13 "2011-01-12T15:22:20Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Eagles may soar but weasles don’t get sucked into jet engines… Yeah but eagles are frickin’ awesome while weasels can only sigh wistfully at their relatives the mongoose. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-volunteer-never-refuse/567315/14 "2011-01-12T15:40:04Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Eagles may soar but weasles don’t get sucked into jet engines… Just wait until I finish my eagle-weasel crossbreeding program. The weagle will soar without being sucked into jet engines. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-volunteer-never-refuse/567315/15 "2011-01-12T15:41:50Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Someone gave me this little gem when I was off to basic training. I considered the character of the source and promptly discarded it. I stepped forward every time volunteers were sought, and after a week was fairly completely ignored by the drill sergeants who were more focused on motivating the shiftless and teaching the joys of teamwork. > > But I still like the saying. It sorts the chiefs from the Indians. Exactly. It’s just another way of saying "don’t show initiative.״ ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-volunteer-never-refuse/567315/16 "2011-01-12T15:43:18Z")
Down that road lies madness! Stop now lest we all succumb to the blood-lusting weagle! ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-volunteer-never-refuse/567315/17 "2011-01-12T17:08:10Z")
It seems like it would work better in a conscripted army than in a volunteer one. If you are just serving out your obligatory term, there’s not much advantage in being the best soldier in your unit. On the other hand, if you’re there because you want to be, then motivation is likely to be as rewarding as in any other career. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-volunteer-never-refuse/567315/18 "2011-01-12T18:28:08Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Just wait until I finish my eagle-weasel crossbreeding program. The weagle will soar without being sucked into jet engines. Did somebody say [weasel](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=320480)? 😃 I could do so much with weagle! But I promise not to. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-volunteer-never-refuse/567315/19 "2011-01-12T18:35:56Z")
I have heard a version of it in an \*entirely \*different context. A gentle way to wean a child is “Don’t offer, don’t refuse.” It’s a much more admirable philosophy in that context than in the military one, I suppose! ---
**Author:** ![Tamarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@Tamarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamarin)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-volunteer-never-refuse/567315/20 "2011-01-12T19:24:31Z")
I heard “don’t volunteer for anything” as boot camp advice when I was going through MEPS for Navy boot camp. It was cemented into my mind as good advice when on the first day or second day, the company commander asked for 4 volunteers…the eager girls that raised their hands were immediately assigned to laundry duty while the rest of us got to write letters and study. The “never refuse” part makes sense as well in that if our company commander came in pointed at some people and said, “you, you, and you are on laundry duty” it would not be a good idea to argue about it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/never-volunteer-never-refuse/567315.md?page=2)