# Neville Chamberlain: Misunderstood Hero **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 13, 2026, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neville-chamberlain-misunderstood-hero/1029248 "2026-04-13T18:13:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2026, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neville-chamberlain-misunderstood-hero/1029248/21 "2026-04-14T01:35:30Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > As for Churchill later making excuses for Chamberlain, it was Churchill who in '38 rightly called the Munich deal “an unmitigated disaster”. So why did he say that he would have done exactly the same thing if he were PM? There may have been some Conservatives like Churchill who would have preferred an even larger military buildup, but the Liberal and Labour parties consistently attacked Chamberlain as a warmonger, and resisted his military spending increases. There was little realistic chance of anyone who would have taken a harder line against Hitler becoming PM at that time. Note that when Chamberlain resigned, he urged the King to appoint Churchill as his successor because he thought he could be trusted to hold the line against any proposed peace deal that left the Nazi regime intact. Possibly if he had not done so, Lord Halifax, who really did underestimate the Nazi threat, would have been appointed instead. And if this author is claiming that the _French_ were eager to fight for Czechoslovakia and Chamberlain held them back…that’s just flat out crazy. Nobody with any knowledge of the period would find that claim at all plausible. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2026, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neville-chamberlain-misunderstood-hero/1029248/22 "2026-04-14T01:48:39Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > There were rumors of impending military coups throughout the entire Nazi era, and nothing ever came of them except for one assassination attempt in 1943. I find it highly implausible that the entire German High Command was actually on board with a coup attempt in 1938, but apparently all changed their minds by 1939. Forty two assassination attempts. And Canaris never changed his mind. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > . I don’t blame Chamberlain in the slightest for not wanting to bet the future of the world on Canaris’ reliability. I blame him for giving away Czechoslovakia without even inviting them to the negotiation table. Future of the world? The Allies could have clobbered the Nazis in 1938. > [@Tatterdemalion](#): > > In regard to the OP, that was pretty much Churchill’s take also. > **[A total and unmitigated defeat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_total_and_unmitigated_defeat)** > > A Total and Unmitigated Defeat was a speech by Winston Churchill in the House of Commons at Westminster on Wednesday, 5 October 1938, the third day of the Munich Agreement debate. Signed five days earlier by Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain, the agreement met the demands of Nazi Germany in respect of the Czechoslovak region of Sudetenland. > Churchill spoke for 45 minutes to criticise the government for signing the agreement and, in general, for its policy of appeasement. The speech officiall... _ **A Total and Unmitigated Defeat** _ \> was a speech by [Winston Churchill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill) in the [House of Commons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Commons_of_the_United_Kingdom) at [Westminster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_the_United_Kingdom) on Wednesday, 5 October 1938, the third day of the [Munich Agreement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement) debate. Signed five days earlier by Prime Minister [Neville Chamberlain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neville_Chamberlain), the agreement met the demands of [Nazi Germany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany) in respect of the [Czechoslovak](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czechoslovakia) region of [Sudetenland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudetenland). > Churchill spoke for 45 minutes to criticise the government for signing the agreement and, in general, for its policy of [appeasement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement). The speech officially ended Churchill’s support for the government’s appeasement policy. Churchill had hoped for a reasonable settlement of the Sudetenland issue, but he was adamant that Britain must fight for the continued independence of Czechoslovakia. Among his criticisms of the government, Churchill said that the [Soviet Union](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union) should have been invited to take part in the negotiations with [Hitler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler). Yes, afterwards, Churchill was nicer to Chamberlain. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > This buys us a year or maybe two to rearm for the inevitable war againt Nazi Germany while Hitler spends effort and treasure trying to subdue a resentful populace far from British interests. Except GB didnt really step up war production that much in the 11 months, and Germany actually got stronger, with taking over the Czech tanks and the Skoda works. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > Revisionist history aside, it was Chamberlain who refused to back up France in any confrontation with Hitler over Czechoslovakia, and resisted speeding up British rearmament after Munich. Exactly. There was no major increase in defense expenditures, and as was said here- > [@Jackmannii](#): > > The Czechs lost major defense works post-Munich, aiding Germany’s military buildup. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > So why did he say that he would have done exactly the same thing if he were PM? When? Read his speech right after the agreement. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > And if this author is claiming that the _French_ were eager to fight for Czechoslovakia and Chamberlain held them back… No, but Chamberlain more or less killed Czech defenses. They could have fought the Nazis off. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2026, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neville-chamberlain-misunderstood-hero/1029248/23 "2026-04-14T01:59:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Britain, no, but Czechoslovakia could well have defended itself- with over a million men under arms, and better tanks than the Nazis at that time. The German army had only about 700-800000 men, less than Czechoslovakia did, with pitiful Panzer2 tanks. Pz.Kpfw2 had a 20mm gun, and 5-15mm of armor. The Czech tank had a 37mm gun and 8-30mm of armor, and in fact the Nazis immediately took it over and called it the Panzerkampfwagen 38(t). So if Czechoslovakia had a bigger, better equipped army, why exactly was it Chamberlain’s fault they got occupied? You make it sound like the Czechs could have easily beaten Germany by themselves. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2026, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neville-chamberlain-misunderstood-hero/1029248/24 "2026-04-14T02:11:03Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > So if Czechoslovakia had a bigger, better equipped army, why exactly was it Chamberlain’s fault they got occupied? Have you read anything about the Munich Agreement? > **[Munich Agreement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement)** > > The Munich Agreement\[a\] was reached in Munich on 30 September 1938, by Nazi Germany, the United Kingdom, France, and Italy. The agreement provided for the German annexation of part of the First Czechoslovak Republic called the Sudetenland, where three million people, mainly ethnic Germans, lived. The pact is known in some areas as the Munich Dictate (Czech: Mnichovský diktát; Slovak: Mníchovský diktát), or the Munich Betrayal (Czech: Mnichovská zrada; Slovak: Mníchovská zrada), because of a pr... > An emergency meeting of the main European powers–not including Czechoslovakia, although their representatives were present in the town, nor the Soviet Union, an ally to France and Czechoslovakia–took place in Munich, on 29–30 September. An agreement was quickly reached on [Adolf Hitler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler)’s terms, and signed by the leaders of Germany, France, Britain, and Italy. The Czechoslovak mountainous borderland marked a natural border between the [Czech state](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Czech_lands) and the Germanic states since the early Middle Ages; it also presented a major natural obstacle to a possible German attack. Strengthened by [border fortifications](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czechoslovak_border_fortifications), the Sudetenland was of absolute strategic importance to Czechoslovakia. On 30 September, Czechoslovakia submitted to the combination of military pressure by Germany, Poland, and Hungary, and diplomatic pressure by Britain and France, and agreed to surrender territory to Germany following the Munich terms. Chamberlain gave away the heavily defended territories of Czechoslovakia- without even consulting them. He handed over key border defenses and military industrial resources. Take a look at what the Sudetenland encompassed- > **[Sudetenland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudetenland)** > > The Sudetenland (/suːˈdeɪtənlænd/ ⓘ soo-DAY-tən-land, .mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}German: \[zuˈdeːtn̩ˌlant\]; Czech and Slovak: Sudety) is the historical German name for the northern, southern, and western areas of former Czechoslovakia which were inhabited primarily by Sudeten Germans. These German speakers had predominated in the... Also by Chamberlains craven surrender, he emboldened Hitler to invade Poland, thinking the UK wouldnt do anything about that other that whine and give up. And sure, Britain was far away from Czechoslovakia- they couldnt do much in direct aid- but the same applied to Poland, yet GB declared war then. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2026, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neville-chamberlain-misunderstood-hero/1029248/25 "2026-04-14T02:18:15Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/tY8-pEwHxn4/maxresdefault.jpg "What If The Allies Declared War In 1938 Over Czechoslovakia? WW2 Would NOT HAPPEN As We Know It") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY8-pEwHxn4) ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2026, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neville-chamberlain-misunderstood-hero/1029248/26 "2026-04-14T02:24:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Chamberlain gave away the heavily defended territories of Czechoslovakia- without even consulting them. He handed over key border defenses and military industrial resources. How was he able to give all these things away? I thought they belonged to Czechoslovakia, and you appear to be making the claim that Czechoslovakia could easily have fought off the Germans by themselves. Why didn’t Czechoslovakia just do that, then? ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2026, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neville-chamberlain-misunderstood-hero/1029248/27 "2026-04-14T02:29:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > _ **A Total and Unmitigated Defeat** _ \> was a speech by [Winston Churchill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill) in the [House of Commons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Commons_of_the_United_Kingdom) at [Westminster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_the_United_Kingdom) on Wednesday, 5 October 1938, the third day of the [Munich Agreement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement) debate. Signed five days earlier by Prime Minister [Neville Chamberlain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neville_Chamberlain), the agreement met the demands of [Nazi Germany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany) in respect of the [Czechoslovak](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czechoslovakia) region of [Sudetenland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudetenland). That’s not what he said in his autobiography written after the war was over. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2026, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neville-chamberlain-misunderstood-hero/1029248/28 "2026-04-14T02:30:11Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Also by Chamberlains craven surrender, he emboldened Hitler to invade Poland, thinking the UK wouldnt do anything about that other that whine and give up. Have you ever read anything about Hitler? He had planned to start a second world war from the start. No “emboldening” was needed to persuade him to invade his neighbors. More aggressive rearmament and earlier intervention by the West might possibly have made the war shorter than it was IRL, but there was always going to be a war once Hitler came to power. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2026, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neville-chamberlain-misunderstood-hero/1029248/29 "2026-04-14T02:38:08Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > How was he able to give all these things away? I thought they belonged to Czechoslovakia, and you appear to be making the claim that Czechoslovakia could easily have fought off the Germans by themselves. Why didn’t Czechoslovakia just do that, then? > On 30 September, Czechoslovakia submitted to the combination of military pressure by Germany, Poland, and Hungary, and diplomatic pressure by Britain and France, and agreed to surrender territory to Germany following the Munich terms. The Allies promising theyd protect Czechoslovakia. And I never said " Czechoslovakia could easily have fought off the Germans by themselves". It would have been a nasty war, but Czechoslovakia could have prevailed. They had some solid natural defenses- which Chamberlain gave away. Mind you- Hitler wouldnt likely have invaded, since the fight would have been too tough, and the Generals would likely have staged a coup and assassinated Hitler had he tried. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2026, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neville-chamberlain-misunderstood-hero/1029248/30 "2026-04-14T02:41:38Z")
> [@Tatterdemalion](#): > > That’s not what he said in his autobiography written after the war was over. What title was that? His only autobiography was in 1930? > **[Winston Churchill as a writer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill_as_a_writer)** > > Winston Churchill, in addition to his careers as a military officer and politician, was a prolific writer under the variant of his full name "Winston S. Churchill". After being commissioned into the 4th Queen's Own Hussars in 1895, Churchill gained permission to observe the Cuban War of Independence and sent war reports to The Daily Graphic. He continued his war journalism in British India, at the Siege of Malakand, then in the Sudan during the Mahdist War and in southern Africa during the Se... ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2026, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neville-chamberlain-misunderstood-hero/1029248/31 "2026-04-14T02:45:49Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Mind you- Hitler wouldnt likely have invaded, since the fight would have been too tough, and the Generals would likely have staged a coup and assassinated Hitler had he tried. Of course he would have invaded. Hitler both WANTED and EXPECTED Britain and France to declare war over Czechoslovakia. He was severely disappointed that Chamberlain didn’t allow that to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2026, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neville-chamberlain-misunderstood-hero/1029248/32 "2026-04-14T02:47:10Z")
_The Second World War?_ Six volumes? Very famous. Not exactly an autobiography, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2026, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neville-chamberlain-misunderstood-hero/1029248/33 "2026-04-14T02:51:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > What title was that? His only autobiography was in 1930? I am referring to this autobiography of his time as Prime minister during WWII. Specifically Book 1 “The Gathering Storm” > **[The Second World War: The Nobel Prize-Winning History of World War II:...](https://www.amazon.com/Second-World-War-Winston-Churchill/dp/039541685X)** > > The Second World War: The Nobel Prize-Winning History of World War II \[Churchill, Winston S.\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. The Second World War: The Nobel Prize-Winning History of World War II He states that while he would have preferred that Chamberlain be more aggressive, he didn’t think, from intelligence reports, that Britain could win a war against Germany at that time. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2026, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neville-chamberlain-misunderstood-hero/1029248/34 "2026-04-14T03:28:37Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Well, Hitler certainly didn’t seem to think so. On the other hand, he was insane, so the fact that he was furious about having to wait another year to start the war doesn’t necessarily mean anything. Political leaders have often thought that wars would be a walkover even though their generals knew otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2026, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neville-chamberlain-misunderstood-hero/1029248/35 "2026-04-14T03:34:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > However, the Cambridge Five- Kim Philby et al, who were secretly working for the Soviets (allied to Germany at that time), told the Government this was nothing but a Nazi trick. That doesn’t seem to make sense. As you noted, the Cambridge five were Soviet agents. The Soviets wouldn’t have been trying to convince Britain to appease Germany - especially with offers to allow Germany to occupy territory in Eastern Europe. The Soviets would have liked to have seen Germany get into a war with Britain and France while the Soviets stood by watching on the sidelines. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2026, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neville-chamberlain-misunderstood-hero/1029248/36 "2026-04-14T04:43:56Z")
That’s quite true, the Soviet-German alliance wasn’t agreed until 1939. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2026, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neville-chamberlain-misunderstood-hero/1029248/37 "2026-04-14T07:26:13Z")
> [@Tatterdemalion](#): > > That’s not what he said in his autobiography written after the war was over. And after Chamberlain was dead. Churchill was, like many people, not ‘speaking ill of the dead’. And easier to do after the Allies have won the war. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2026, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neville-chamberlain-misunderstood-hero/1029248/38 "2026-04-14T10:10:29Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > [@DrDeth](#): > > > > However, the Cambridge Five- Kim Philby et al, who were secretly working for the Soviets (allied to Germany at that time), told the Government this was nothing but a Nazi trick. > > That doesn’t seem to make sense Indeed. And more to the point, they weren’t in a position to be taken seriously as a source/conduit for information or misinformation about the highest levels of Nazi policymaking: Philby and Blunt weren’t employed in intelligence agencies until 1940, and in 1938 Maclean barely had his feet under the table as a junior diplomat in the Embassy in Paris. At the very least any such story coming from any of them would either have aroused suspicion - how would they have known anything about such matters? I remember a TV interview with a senior FO official of the time who said the overtures weren’t taken seriously - if they meant to overthrow Hitler, why would they need Britain’s blessing? Why not just do it? And if they had tried and (very likely failed), then it would all be presented as a British plot. Moreover, AIUI they were also asking for Britain to agree to their replacement regime getting pretty well everything Hitler was asking for anyway. ---
**Author:** ![yendis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ed8c4c/32.png) [@yendis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yendis)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2026, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neville-chamberlain-misunderstood-hero/1029248/39 "2026-04-14T10:30:45Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s true that Britain and France did some re-arming in the period between September 1938 and May 1940. But Germany was re-arming at a much faster rate. So any delay favored Germany not Britain and France. That delay was the only reason the RAF had enough planes, and more importantly an industrial base building more, and a training scheme for pilots, to stand any chance in the Battle of Britain. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2026, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neville-chamberlain-misunderstood-hero/1029248/40 "2026-04-14T11:02:42Z")
I was responding to you. My point was that Chamberlain’s attempt to manipulate them may nit have worked if he told them he was manipulating them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neville-chamberlain-misunderstood-hero/1029248.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neville-chamberlain-misunderstood-hero/1029248.md?page=3)