# New airline restrictions, oy. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 27, 2009, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-airline-restrictions-oy/522683 "2009-12-27T06:34:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-airline-restrictions-oy/522683/101 "2009-12-29T04:13:04Z")
So to go back in history and to review threats to our national security, first there was the bomber gap, and then the missile gap, and now there is a humor gap. You’ve utterly convinced me. We must stop at nothing to cease the chuckles of murderous fanatics. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-airline-restrictions-oy/522683/102 "2009-12-29T04:13:24Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Missed this in my other post. > > The person who wrote this in that newspaper is an idiot. > > The purpose of terrorism is to use unconventional, violent means to force a country to change policies that in some way affect those who carry out the violence. I think the theory is sound, as long as you’re willing to give the author the benefit of the doubt and assume he knew he was talking about the _intermediate_ goal. The purpose of terrorism is to force the country to change policies. The unconventional, violent means are just that, a means to an end. If their unconventional, violent means results in self-destructive paranoia which _then_ forces the country to change policies, I’m sure they’d be just as happy. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-airline-restrictions-oy/522683/103 "2009-12-29T04:34:00Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > I think the theory is sound, as long as you’re willing to give the author the benefit of the doubt and assume he knew he was talking about the _intermediate_ goal. The purpose of terrorism is to force the country to change policies. The unconventional, violent means are just that, a means to an end. If their unconventional, violent means results in self-destructive paranoia which _then_ forces the country to change policies, I’m sure they’d be just as happy. [For want of a nail?](http://www.love-poems.me.uk/childrens_nursery_rhymes_for_want_of_a_nail.htm) Or do you mean, for want of listening to an iPod 45 minutes before landing, Palestine was freed? Give me a break. Scores of soldiers coming home in bodybags can change a country’s policies, as happened in Vietnam for the US and Afghanistan for the Soviets. Paying an extra $9.50 in security fees per airline ticket, having plastic knife en route, and being forced to buy bottled water from airport vendors at $4 a pop doesn’t have jack shit to do with ending imperialism. I’d eat my hat if the weather doesn’t have a bigger impact on this whole war on terrorism thing than does taking off one’s shoes at the airport. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-airline-restrictions-oy/522683/104 "2009-12-29T04:59:07Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You’ve utterly convinced me. We must stop at nothing to cease the chuckles of murderous fanatics. Yes, sucking billions of dollars out of the economy and inconveniencing (and worse) millions of passengers isn’t the ultimate goal of the terrorists. It is one of the battles along the road to victory for them. And given how little it has cost them to accomplish this task, I’m sure they are quite happy with the results. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-airline-restrictions-oy/522683/105 "2009-12-29T05:21:18Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Yes, sucking billions of dollars out of the economy and inconveniencing (and worse) millions of passengers isn’t the ultimate goal of the terrorists. It is one of the battles along the road to victory for them. And given how little it has cost them to accomplish this task, I’m sure they are quite happy with the results. Perhaps you can quote the part of Bin Laden’s fatwa where he talks about killing infidels, and then goes on to talk about preventing the American devil from peeing in the last 60 minutes of an international flight? Is it somewhere around the point where UBL asks Mullah Fang to fetch the comfy pillow? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-airline-restrictions-oy/522683/106 "2009-12-29T05:28:36Z")
If Usama could win his war by making it difficult for you to have a pillow, he’d do it. If he didn’t have to kill a single infidel, he’d probably do it. If he caused the US to collapse because they spend all their time and money worrying about pillows on planes, he’d do it. There are many ways to accomplish goals other than by what Usama says. I’m quite sure he knows that, too. ---
**Author:** ![fusoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecccb3/32.png) [@fusoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fusoya)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-airline-restrictions-oy/522683/107 "2009-12-29T06:26:32Z")
Well shit. Does anyone know if there’s an effective way to get between Taiwan and the USA without flying? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-airline-restrictions-oy/522683/108 "2009-12-29T07:13:24Z")
> [@fusoya](#): > > Well shit. Does anyone know if there’s an effective way to get between Taiwan and the USA without flying? Sometimes it’s possible to book passage on a cargo freighter. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-airline-restrictions-oy/522683/109 "2009-12-29T08:14:43Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > As the parent of small children, all I can do is to laugh in horror as I consider the prospect of driving 3,000 miles across the country rather than face the nightmarish possibility of trying to keep 3 small children entertained in the final hour of an already-long flight, with no books, toys, or other entertainment to keep them occupied. Yeah, that’s not happening. They rescind the rule or we’re driving to Seattle next time, and that’s a promise. And people wonder why I like to take the train. I’ve never been subject to any inspection of my luggage or carry-on, even though I have [a huge-ass backpack](http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/3804/packsideit6.jpg) that I wear onto the train and shove into the overhead bin, that - if filled with C4 - could destroy the train and the building the train passes under on it’s way out of Chicago’s Union Station. The [lower part of my backpack is a cooler](http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/7492/packbacksl9.jpg) that I load up with food and drinks for the trip - bought at local stores, not at an airport. All things being equal, the 7 hours I spend traveling from downtown Chicago to downtown Kansas City works out to be only two hours longer than the plane flight, when you actually count all the travel to and from airports, waiting for luggage, all the security bullshit and Southworst Airline’s boarding policies. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-airline-restrictions-oy/522683/110 "2009-12-29T10:47:22Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > I think the theory is sound, as long as you’re willing to give the author the benefit of the doubt and assume he knew he was talking about the _intermediate_ goal. The purpose of terrorism is to force the country to change policies. The unconventional, violent means are just that, a means to an end. If their unconventional, violent means results in self-destructive paranoia which _then_ forces the country to change policies, I’m sure they’d be just as happy. so how the hell is forcing us to drive going to make us turn muslim? ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-airline-restrictions-oy/522683/111 "2009-12-29T10:59:31Z")
Watching CNN some idiot US “expert” going on about how suspicious it was the ticket from Lagos (bought in Ghana) was paid in cash. Jaysus, it’s fucking West Africa. People pay in cash all the time. Either that or cheques, but who the hell accepts out of country cheques from Nigerian nationals? ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-airline-restrictions-oy/522683/112 "2009-12-29T11:23:37Z")
Can you tell me the name of that expert? I have a large amount of money that I need to get out of Nigeria but I need him to send me a small advance fee first. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-airline-restrictions-oy/522683/113 "2009-12-29T11:48:25Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Can you tell me the name of that expert? I have a large amount of money that I need to get out of Nigeria but I need him to send me a small advance fee first. Didn’t catch it. A ret’d colonel I think. I’m sure he’ll accept Nigerian cheques or “credit cards.” ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-airline-restrictions-oy/522683/114 "2009-12-29T13:58:55Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > If Usama could win his war by making it difficult for you to have a pillow, he’d do it. If he didn’t have to kill a single infidel, he’d probably do it. If he caused the US to collapse because they spend all their time and money worrying about pillows on planes, he’d do it. There are many ways to accomplish goals other than by what Usama says. I’m quite sure he knows that, too. You are making stuff up. You don’t know what you are talking about. He quite specifically endorsed violence – not cyber-warfare, not annoyances, not other means – to attack Americans and our supporters in order to force us out of his part of the world. [Cite.](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1998.html) > [@](#): > > All these crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on God, his messenger, and Muslims. And ulema have throughout Islamic history unanimously agreed that the jihad is an individual duty if the enemy destroys the Muslim countries. . . . The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies – civilians and military – is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque from their grip . . . . We – with God’s help – call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God’s order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan’s U.S. troops and the devil’s supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-airline-restrictions-oy/522683/115 "2009-12-29T14:16:04Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You are making stuff up. You don’t know what you are talking about. Idiot. In your own quote he specifically stated other means of defeating the enemy. I’ll bold the important parts for you.: > [@](#): > > God’s order to kill the Americans **and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it**. And further on: > [@](#): > > We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan’s U.S. troops and the devil’s supporters allying with them, **and to displace those who are behind them** so that they may learn a lesson. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-airline-restrictions-oy/522683/116 "2009-12-29T14:25:29Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > And people wonder why I like to take the train. > … > All things being equal, the 7 hours I spend traveling from downtown Chicago to downtown Kansas City works out to be only two hours longer than the plane flight, when you actually count all the travel to and from airports, waiting for luggage, all the security bullshit and Southworst Airline’s boarding policies. I disagree with you about SWA’s boarding policies. I wholeheartedly agree with you about train travel being far better than air travel over certain distances. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-airline-restrictions-oy/522683/117 "2009-12-29T14:39:47Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Idiot. In your own quote he specifically stated other means of defeating the enemy. I’ll bold the important parts for you.: > > And further on: Well done, sir. Plundering and displacing are secret Muslim code for victory through annoying wait times at the airport. Clearly plundering doesn’t mean theft by force, and displacing doesn’t mean running some out of their home. I guess I don’t own that Internet Message Board Decoder Ring which allows any word to be redefined to suit an uninformed viewpoint. I’m such an idiot to think that words mean things according to their definitions! Thanks for correcting my error. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-airline-restrictions-oy/522683/118 "2009-12-29T14:52:27Z")
I’d suggest you get your ring as it makes you look stupid to think that wars are only fought between people with guns. Hey, believe what Usama says completely. Heaven forbid he’d say one thing to misdirect you down one path while he takes another. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-airline-restrictions-oy/522683/119 "2009-12-29T15:55:44Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Hey, believe what Usama says completely. Heaven forbid he’d say one thing to misdirect you down one path while he takes another. Yeah, Bin Laden didn’t really mean that whole fatwa thing. What with telling people to go kill Americans and all, we really should have ignored it. > [@](#): > > … it makes you look stupid to think that wars are only fought between people with guns. They must have some primo shit available in Yemen, because you’re experiencing hallucinations in this debate. I never said or implied anything on the subject of what is a war, one way or another. But if you want to play a game of “make up bizarre strawmen,” I’d say it makes you look stupid when you say that colorless green ideas sleep furiously. You retard! ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-airline-restrictions-oy/522683/120 "2009-12-29T15:59:11Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Yeah, Bin Laden didn’t really mean that whole fatwa thing. What with telling people to go kill Americans and all, we really should have ignored it. Maybe he meant killing us _softly_. You know, with his song. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-airline-restrictions-oy/522683.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-airline-restrictions-oy/522683.md?page=7)