# New allegation: Trump tried to use NSA, DNI to reign in FBI investigation **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 23, 2017, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-allegation-trump-tried-to-use-nsa-dni-to-reign-in-fbi-investigation/787278 "2017-05-23T14:24:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-allegation-trump-tried-to-use-nsa-dni-to-reign-in-fbi-investigation/787278/1 "2017-05-23T14:24:48Z")
And in today’s news: [Trump asked DNI, NSA to deny evidence of Russia collusion](http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/22/politics/donald-trump-intelligence-community/): > [@](#): > > President Donald Trump asked two of the government’s top intelligence chiefs to publicly deny evidence of cooperation between his campaign and Russia during the 2016 election, multiple current and former US officials confirmed to CNN Monday. > > Trump spoke to Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats and National Security Agency Director Adm. Michael Rogers after then-FBI Director James Comey revealed in March that the bureau had launched a probe into alleged collusion. > Both Coats and Rogers were uncomfortable with the nature of the President’s request and refused to comply, the sources with knowledge of the situation told CNN. If proven, this is very serious. This was one of the allegations made against Nixon: [that he tried to get the CIA to stop the FBI investigation into the Watergate burglary](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_scandal#.E2.80.9CSmoking_Gun.E2.80.9D_tape). It formed part of the basis for the [first Article of Impeachment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_process_against_Richard_Nixon#Articles_of_impeachment) passed by the House committee, alleging obstruction of the investigation. Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-allegation-trump-tried-to-use-nsa-dni-to-reign-in-fbi-investigation/787278/2 "2017-05-23T14:41:52Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > And in today’s news: [Trump asked DNI, NSA to deny evidence of Russia collusion](http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/22/politics/donald-trump-intelligence-community/): > > If proven, this is very serious. This was one of the allegations made against Nixon: [that he tried to get the CIA to stop the FBI investigation into the Watergate burglary](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_scandal#.E2.80.9CSmoking_Gun.E2.80.9D_tape). It formed part of the basis for the [first Article of Impeachment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_process_against_Richard_Nixon#Articles_of_impeachment) passed by the House committee, alleging obstruction of the investigation. > > Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it, etc. If proven, this _would_ be very serious _if_ Republicans had any morals, a sense of shame, patriotism, etc. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-allegation-trump-tried-to-use-nsa-dni-to-reign-in-fbi-investigation/787278/3 "2017-05-23T14:43:21Z")
We’re gonna need a bigger forum… ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-allegation-trump-tried-to-use-nsa-dni-to-reign-in-fbi-investigation/787278/4 "2017-05-23T14:53:59Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > And in today’s news: [Trump asked DNI, NSA to deny evidence of Russia collusion](http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/22/politics/donald-trump-intelligence-community/): > > If proven, this is very serious. This was one of the allegations made against Nixon: [that he tried to get the CIA to stop the FBI investigation into the Watergate burglary](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_scandal#.E2.80.9CSmoking_Gun.E2.80.9D_tape). It formed part of the basis for the [first Article of Impeachment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_process_against_Richard_Nixon#Articles_of_impeachment) passed by the House committee, alleging obstruction of the investigation. > > Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it, etc. ISTM that you cite (& similar cites that I’ve seen) does not support your claim. The reporting here is not that Trump said to these agencies “stop the FBI from investigating”, which is the title of this thread. The reporting says that Trump wanted these people to communicate to the public that there was no evidence of collusion. These are not remotely the same thing. I’m surprised that you would conflate the two. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-allegation-trump-tried-to-use-nsa-dni-to-reign-in-fbi-investigation/787278/5 "2017-05-23T14:59:40Z")
**Rein** in. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-allegation-trump-tried-to-use-nsa-dni-to-reign-in-fbi-investigation/787278/6 "2017-05-23T15:22:20Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > **Rein** in. > > 😃 Well, maybe Trump DID try and get the NSA and DNI to rule them all, or at least in the FBI’s investigation. 😛 Trump seems to be the master of inserting foot into mouth. At this point, the last thing he needs to do is to be seen trying to apply pressure to government agencies or directors to assert that there is nothing going on behind the curtain, move along, move along. What an idiot! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-allegation-trump-tried-to-use-nsa-dni-to-reign-in-fbi-investigation/787278/7 "2017-05-23T15:26:25Z")
What Trump DID was inappropriate and very stupid, but it’s a million miles from asking the CIA to actively interfere. Trump does stupid and inappropriate things every week. It will start getting significant when there is solid evidence he did something illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-allegation-trump-tried-to-use-nsa-dni-to-reign-in-fbi-investigation/787278/8 "2017-05-23T15:36:14Z")
Not a Trump fan, but my understanding is that Coates in the broadcast today, implied this was not correct. I didn’t see it myself (watching Brennan), though, only others commenting on it. Nor do I know anything about Coates. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-allegation-trump-tried-to-use-nsa-dni-to-reign-in-fbi-investigation/787278/9 "2017-05-23T15:36:47Z")
The original WaPo story contained this: \*"In addition to the requests to Coats and Rogers, senior White House officials sounded out top intelligence officials about the possibility of intervening directly with Comey to encourage the FBI to drop its probe of Michael Flynn, Trump’s former national security adviser, according to people familiar with the matter. The officials said the White House appeared uncertain about its power to influence the FBI. “Can we ask him to shut down the investigation? Are you able to assist in this matter?” one official said of the line of questioning from the White House.\* ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-allegation-trump-tried-to-use-nsa-dni-to-reign-in-fbi-investigation/787278/10 "2017-05-23T16:40:30Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > What Trump DID was inappropriate and very stupid, but it’s a million miles from asking the CIA to actively interfere. It all comes back to whether or not there was actual collusion. If there wasn’t, then asking the CIA or NSA to say something to the effect of “We intercepted no evidence of collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign” is wholly appropriate. If there was collusion, then this is not kosher. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-allegation-trump-tried-to-use-nsa-dni-to-reign-in-fbi-investigation/787278/11 "2017-05-23T16:42:51Z")
> [@treis](#): > > It all comes back to whether or not there was actual collusion. If there wasn’t, then asking the CIA or NSA to say something to the effect of “We intercepted no evidence of collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign” is wholly appropriate. If there was collusion, then this is not kosher. Even if there is zero collusion and Trump et al are pure as the driven snow (:dubious:) it’s a stupid thing to do at this time and place. It LOOKS like he’s trying to hide and cover up. It’s simply more stupid if there isn’t any collusion than if there is, but either way, we are into pretty epic stupidity levels at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-allegation-trump-tried-to-use-nsa-dni-to-reign-in-fbi-investigation/787278/12 "2017-05-23T16:51:50Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Even if there is zero collusion and Trump et al are pure as the driven snow (:dubious:) it’s a stupid thing to do at this time and place. It LOOKS like he’s trying to hide and cover up. It’s simply more stupid if there isn’t any collusion than if there is, but either way, we are into pretty epic stupidity levels at this point. To add to this why would someone even ask for this? If there is no collusion and you know there is no collusion and the investigating agencies have found no collusion there is no need to ask them to say there is no collusion. They will do that on their own in the normal course of events. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-allegation-trump-tried-to-use-nsa-dni-to-reign-in-fbi-investigation/787278/13 "2017-05-23T16:54:39Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > The original WaPo story contained this: > > \*"In addition to the requests to Coats and Rogers, senior White House officials sounded out top intelligence officials about the possibility of intervening directly with Comey to encourage the FBI to drop its probe of Michael Flynn, Trump’s former national security adviser, according to people familiar with the matter. The officials said the White House appeared uncertain about its power to influence the FBI. > > “Can we ask him to shut down the investigation? Are you able to assist in this matter?” one official said of the line of questioning from the White House.\* But that is not asking the CIA for help shutting it down. That’s merely some behind the scenes lead up to the already reported private chat Trump and Comey had. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-allegation-trump-tried-to-use-nsa-dni-to-reign-in-fbi-investigation/787278/14 "2017-05-23T16:59:11Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > To add to this why would someone even ask for this? > > If there is no collusion and you know there is no collusion and the investigating agencies have found no collusion there is no need to ask them to say there is no collusion. They will do that on their own in the normal course of events. Because it takes a long time for these investigations to run their course, and meanwhile you’re twisting in the wind, and having your agenda opposed and your political opponents strengthened and your allies weakened. And if your name happens to be Trump, your ego being threatened is also a yuuuugge part of the equation. So if you’re convinced that it’s much ado about nothing, driven by your political opponents, and you also happen to be ignorant about politics, then you think to yourself “_these intelligence guys know it’s all baloney, why don’t they just say so and tamp down some of this hysteria?_”, and then you ask them this very question. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-allegation-trump-tried-to-use-nsa-dni-to-reign-in-fbi-investigation/787278/15 "2017-05-23T17:04:33Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > **Rein** in. > > 😃 [Thank you!](http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/reign-rein-and-rain) [This has been bothering me too.](https://www.nathanielward.net/2011/04/reign-in-vs-rein-in-a-visual-guide) ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-allegation-trump-tried-to-use-nsa-dni-to-reign-in-fbi-investigation/787278/16 "2017-05-23T17:53:26Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > **Rein** in. > > 😃 I dunno, from here it sure looks like he’s trying to reign. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-allegation-trump-tried-to-use-nsa-dni-to-reign-in-fbi-investigation/787278/17 "2017-05-23T18:23:11Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > To add to this why would someone even ask for this? > > If there is no collusion and you know there is no collusion and the investigating agencies have found no collusion there is no need to ask them to say there is no collusion. They will do that on their own in the normal course of events. Trump is stupid, and the only thing he knows anything about is self promotion. He’s in way, way, way over his head. The sort of user-car-salesman self promotion and denials and blather he’s engaging in works at one thousandth the scale of the Presidency, I guess. And that’s about a good estimation of the ratio. Trump’s fame has always been much greater than his fortune. The nuances and rules of governance, still like “don’t ask a law enforcement agency to do things to your advantage,” are things that every other President knew because every other President we’ve ever seen was a governor, or a senator, or a vice president, or what have you, and they weren’t stupid and had learned that a conflict of interest is bad even if it just LOOKS bad. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-allegation-trump-tried-to-use-nsa-dni-to-reign-in-fbi-investigation/787278/18 "2017-05-23T18:24:23Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > What Trump DID was inappropriate and very stupid, but it’s a million miles from asking the CIA to actively interfere. Maybe not Trump directly but we have this: > [@](#): > > ``` > In addition to the requests to Coats and Rogers, senior White House officials sounded out top intelligence officials about the possibility of intervening directly with Comey to encourage the FBI to drop its probe of Michael Flynn, Trump’s former national security adviser, according to people familiar with the matter. The officials said the White House appeared uncertain about its power to influence the FBI. > > “Can we ask him to shut down the investigation? Are you able to assist in this matter?” one official said of the line of questioning from the White House. > > ``` This may not be exactly the same as “asking the CIA to actively interfere” but it’s not a million miles away either. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-allegation-trump-tried-to-use-nsa-dni-to-reign-in-fbi-investigation/787278/19 "2017-05-23T18:36:48Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > What Trump DID was inappropriate and very stupid, but it’s a million miles from asking the CIA to actively interfere. Agreed. > [@](#): > > Trump does stupid and inappropriate things every week. It will start getting significant when there is solid evidence he did something illegal. Is there some point where enough inappropriate and stupid actions amount to something illegal or reasonably impeachable? ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-allegation-trump-tried-to-use-nsa-dni-to-reign-in-fbi-investigation/787278/20 "2017-05-23T18:49:05Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > But that is not asking the CIA for help shutting it down. That’s merely some behind the scenes lead up to the already reported private chat Trump and Comey had. Maybe I’m interpreting it incorrectly but I think they actually were asking intelligence officials to help. It’s worded oddly, “sounded out” could mean the white house staff spitballed the possibility amongst themselves, but I believe “sounded out intelligence officials [about intervening]” means they ran the idea by intelligence officials. I believe the word “official” from there on refers to intelligence officials. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-allegation-trump-tried-to-use-nsa-dni-to-reign-in-fbi-investigation/787278.md?page=2)