# New Ape Species? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 22, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-ape-species/203111 "2003-09-22T15:57:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-ape-species/203111/1 "2003-09-22T15:57:14Z")
Is there a [New Ape Species](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=624&ncid=624&e=1&u=/ap/20030922/ap_on_sc/mystery_apes) out there? I’ve seen some pretty shady articles about these apes in the past but this looks very credible. Does anyone have links to more detailed articles? If they turn out to be gorilla/chimp hybrids, that could have enormous implcations to he classifaction of humans and chimps (and gorillas) and might even imply that a human/chimp hybrid could be possible. ---
**Author:** ![j.c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@j.c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j.c)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-ape-species/203111/2 "2003-09-22T16:20:43Z")
Are you telling me that scientists are collecting my poop!! Look, I am not an ape - my back is just a bit stiff today so I’m walking funny. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-ape-species/203111/3 "2003-09-22T17:12:54Z")
There’s significantly more detailed information [here](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/04/0414_030314_strangeape.html), at National Geographic. If this thing co-occurs with chimps, but not gorillas, a recent hybrid origin seems unlikley. If it co-occurs with regular chimps, it sounds like it must be a new species (possibly closely related to chimps) rather than a subspecies of chimp. I might mention that Paul du Chaillu, who collected the first specimens of the gorilla in Gabon in the 1850s, mentioned local tales of other species of apes besides gorillas and chimps. However, this was remote from the area of the present discovery. Since many of the differences between a chimp and a gorilla skull are due to allometry, one would expect the skull of a “giant” chimp to be much like that of a gorilla. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-ape-species/203111/4 "2003-09-22T17:16:59Z")
This site has a link to an article about Karl Amman’s search for the animal, which he thinks are gorillas: [http://www.brookfieldzoo.org/pagegen/pretemp4.asp?pageid=801&template=4&title=Ape%20Conference%20-%20Field%20Research&bgtype=BgColor&bg=&uni=0&motifid=7&form=0&nsection=&nlinkid=&anchor=#](http://www.brookfieldzoo.org/pagegen/pretemp4.asp?pageid=801&template=4&title=Ape%20Conference%20-%20Field%20Research&bgtype=BgColor&bg=&uni=0&motifid=7&form=0&nsection=&nlinkid=&anchor=#) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-ape-species/203111/5 "2003-09-22T17:20:51Z")
And more from Karl Amman’s own web site: [http://karlammann.com/bondo.html](http://karlammann.com/bondo.html) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-ape-species/203111/6 "2003-09-22T17:28:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Colibri \* > \*\*This site has a link to an article about Karl Amman’s search for the animal, which he thinks are gorillas: > > [http://www.brookfieldzoo.org/pagegen/pretemp4.asp?pageid=801&template=4&title=Ape%20Conference%20-%20Field%20Research&bgtype=BgColor&bg=&uni=0&motifid=7&form=0&nsection=&nlinkid=&anchor=#](http://www.brookfieldzoo.org/pagegen/pretemp4.asp?pageid=801&template=4&title=Ape%20Conference%20-%20Field%20Research&bgtype=BgColor&bg=&uni=0&motifid=7&form=0&nsection=&nlinkid=&anchor=#) \*\* Sorry, on reading Ammann’s own website it is clear he thinks that the animals are chimps, and not likely even a new subspecies but perhaps a population with some unusually large individuals. And he thinks that Williams is a lying publicity-hound. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_E\_Dec\_Esq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/48db29/32.png) [@Francis\_E\_Dec\_Esq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_E_Dec_Esq)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-ape-species/203111/7 "2003-09-22T17:34:16Z")
Tarzan fans, we gotta organize a movement to name the new apes “mangani”! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-ape-species/203111/8 "2003-09-22T17:40:56Z")
Colibri: Thanks for the links. Sure looks like a chimp to me from the pictures. Other than the larger size, I don’t see any gorilla characteristics. It will be interesting to see what the new tests show. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-ape-species/203111/9 "2003-09-22T18:15:07Z")
Actually, “mangani” was the word used for humans by the unidentified “anthropoid apes” that raised Tarzan. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-ape-species/203111/10 "2003-09-22T22:14:12Z")
You owe me a Coke and a new keyboard, **Francis**. 😃 So…for the record, exactly how much larger than “normal” chimps are we talking, here? ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_E\_Dec\_Esq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/48db29/32.png) [@Francis\_E\_Dec\_Esq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_E_Dec_Esq)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-ape-species/203111/11 "2003-09-22T22:52:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dogface \* > \*\*Actually, “mangani” was the word used for humans by the unidentified “anthropoid apes” that raised Tarzan. \*\* No, no. “Mangani” was the apes’ word for themselves. Tarzan would also sometimes refer to them as “mangani” when speaking to other humans since there was no common term like chimp or gorilla for them. Europeans like Tarzan the apes called “tarmangani”, white ape, tar meaning “white.” (“tarzan” meant “white-skin”.)