# New Attacks on Oil Tankers **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 13, 2019, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470 "2019-06-13T13:17:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/181 "2019-06-17T01:11:06Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes, the consequences of Iran starting a war will be utterly catastrophic. Given Iran’s past calls for the destruction of the US this is a real concern. So you’re afraid that Iran is going to… destroy the US? Iran? Destroy the US? The scariest thing about conservative fearmongering is the persistent idea that some mid-tier actor halfway around the world is going to bomb 123 Elm Street in Kenosha WS. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/182 "2019-06-17T01:29:51Z")
I see that American-led peace meeting in Bahrain starts next week. The Israelis will attend, but the Palestinians & Iranians will not. I supposed this is connected to that is a way I do not understand. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/183 "2019-06-17T01:53:12Z")
An American led peace meeting would be better introduced with the reduction in recently imposed sanctions, and a gluing back together of the nuclear deal that we alone tore up. But such a thing would imply that America seeks peace, so don’t count on it. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/184 "2019-06-17T07:34:35Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > I see that American-led peace meeting in Bahrain starts next week. Technically, it’s an “economic workshop”. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/185 "2019-06-17T11:30:07Z")
Iran to Trump: Hey, since you tore up our agreement… > **[Iran says it will break internationally-agreed limit on uranium levels in 10...](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/17/iran-says-it-will-break-internationally-agreed-limit-on-uranium-levels-in-10-days.html)** > > Iran will surpass the internationally agreed levels of its low-enriched uranium levels in 10 days, the country's atomic energy body said Monday. “Iran will surpass the internationally agreed limit on its low-enriched uranium stockpiles in 10 days, the country’s atomic energy body said Monday.” “Tehran has threatened to roll back its obligations under the nuclear deal a year after the Trump administration withdrew from it and reimposed punishing sanctions on the Iranian economy, most significantly its oil sector, the country’s largest source of revenue.” ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/186 "2019-06-17T12:55:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Sounds like evidence (possibly, depending on the specifics of the video) that Iranians tried to pull an unexploded mine off a vessel from another country. Which actually sounds like a pretty nice thing to do – I hope that countries will take mines off of ships when they have the capability and opportunity. Removing an unexploded mine from a ship like that is not something you do unless you know how to “safe” it - which wouldn’t be something you know how to do unless you’re the one who deployed it in the first place. Besides which, if they were trying to do a nice thing, don’t you think they’d be scrambling to take credit for doing so? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/187 "2019-06-17T13:11:27Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Versus a country that repeatedly threatens to sink ships and shut down the Straight of Hormuz? Actualy, as I pointed out earlier, Iran did not threaten to shut down the Strait of Hormuz out of the blue; they were reacting to a threat by the US; the US threatened them first. Can you show us that Iran [del]often[/del]ever threatens to shut down the Strait of Hormuz without provocation? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/188 "2019-06-17T13:16:22Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Removing an unexploded mine from a ship like that is not something you do unless you know how to “safe” it - which wouldn’t be something you know how to do unless you’re the one who deployed it in the first place. You’re saying explosives technicians are unable to disarm explosives manufactured in other countries? That’s a hell of a claim. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/189 "2019-06-17T13:18:41Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > You’re saying explosives technicians are unable to disarm explosives manufactured in other countries? That’s a hell of a claim. He is a **Machine Elf**. Maybe that’s halfway between an Explosives Elf and the traditional toy/cookie Elf? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/190 "2019-06-17T15:02:41Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > You’re saying explosives technicians are unable to disarm explosives manufactured in other countries? That’s a hell of a claim. I’ll admit to not being an official expert in ordnance disposal. But AIUI, mass-produced limpet mines are designed with anti-tamper features, and ISTM that only the people who deployed it would know how to quickly/easily get around such features. If you’re working with unknowns on ordnance deployed by an enemy, you don’t rush, and you try to maintain a steady hand. If the Iranian effort to remove unexploded ordnance was legit, why would they work on it from such a dangerously unsteady platform? Wouldn’t they climb onto the tanker and hang a platform over the side, so they’re nice and stable while they take their time to pick through its defenses? More to the point, if Iran is indeed innocent in all of this, why would they rush in unbidden to remove an unexploded mine from a ship that isn’t even theirs? Why would they keep silent about such an altruistic feat? Why would they not share photos and other details of the recovered mine that could show the world who might have actually deployed the mine in the first place? If any of that has been covered in the press, I’ve missed it, and I’ll welcome a cite of facts surrounding this incident that casts Iran in a more favorable light. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/191 "2019-06-17T15:21:56Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > I’ll admit to not being an official expert in ordnance disposal. But AIUI, mass-produced limpet mines are designed with anti-tamper features, and ISTM that only the people who deployed it would know how to quickly/easily get around such features. If you’re working with unknowns on ordnance deployed by an enemy, you don’t rush, and you try to maintain a steady hand. If the Iranian effort to remove unexploded ordnance was legit, why would they work on it from such a dangerously unsteady platform? Wouldn’t they climb onto the tanker and hang a platform over the side, so they’re nice and stable while they take their time to pick through its defenses? So you aren’t an expert. And you don’t know if that was a limpet mine, a drone smeared with superglue or a cannonball, because none of us knows. But you have lots of suspicions. > [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > More to the point, if Iran is indeed innocent in all of this, why would they rush in unbidden to remove an unexploded mine from a ship that isn’t even theirs? Why would they keep silent about such an altruistic feat? Why would they not share photos and other details of the recovered mine that could show the world who might have actually deployed the mine in the first place? “Unbidden”? I thought they were responding to a distress call. Are you saying that you have information showing that the Iranians just “showed up” at that ship? Or are you using a meaning for “unbidden” that I am not aware of? > [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > If any of that has been covered in the press, I’ve missed it, and I’ll welcome a cite of facts surrounding this incident that casts Iran in a more favorable light. Have you read any news stories about this? Or just the headlines? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/192 "2019-06-17T15:23:25Z")
Personally, I’m not so sure you would remove an unexploded limpet mine while on an unsteady platform even if it was placed there by your own covert ops team. That’s why I’m not entirely positive that’s what happened in the video. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/193 "2019-06-17T15:24:24Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Removing an unexploded mine from a ship like that is not something you do unless you know how to “safe” it - which wouldn’t be something you know how to do unless you’re the one who deployed it in the first place. Cite? > [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Besides which, if they were trying to do a nice thing, don’t you think they’d be scrambling to take credit for doing so? And the US responses to that would be different than the current response how? Do you think Iran doesn’t know that anything they say other than “we did it” will be painted as lies by the US and it’s unofficial state propaganda machine? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/194 "2019-06-17T15:37:01Z")
Doesn’t it seem peculiar that a country that wants to sink a ship would try to save it? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/195 "2019-06-17T15:44:04Z")
“And don’t forget how suspicious it is that they just sent the crew of the _Front Altair_ to Dubai! If they weren’t hiding something, they’d have felt emboldened enough to detain them for days or weeks. Iran’s clear willingness to aid them in returning home is obviously an indicator of guilt!” ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/196 "2019-06-17T15:46:13Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Setting aside the issue of who actually did it, I get the unsettling impression that a significant number of people actually \*\*\*want \*\*\*the U.S. (or an American ally) to be the true culprit behind all of this. Are you talking about people in this thread?? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/197 "2019-06-17T16:16:37Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Doesn’t it seem peculiar that a country that wants to sink a ship would try to save it? Not if “try to save it” amounts to tampering / disposing of evidence that they tried to sink it in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/198 "2019-06-17T16:23:26Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Not if “try to save it” amounts to tampering / disposing of evidence that they tried to sink it in the first place. There’s an inherent assumption in there that the people an Iranian would consider the “authorities” they would turn over an explosive device to are the people an American would consider ‘criminals disposing of evidence.’ It’s not that there’s something wrong with the assumption, more that it should be labeled as an assumption. Imagine, for a moment, that a Houthi rebel group did this without telling their Iranian paymasters in the hopes of escalating the Yemeni War. Who would the Iranians send to collect the explosives and figure out the culprit? Would those people be considered illegitimate by Americans watching a video of it? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/199 "2019-06-17T17:25:53Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > There’s an inherent assumption in there that the people an Iranian would consider the “authorities” they would turn over an explosive device to are the people an American would consider ‘criminals disposing of evidence.’ > > It’s not that there’s something wrong with the assumption, more that it should be labeled as an assumption. Imagine, for a moment, that a Houthi rebel group did this without telling their Iranian paymasters in the hopes of escalating the Yemeni War. Who would the Iranians send to collect the explosives and figure out the culprit? Would those people be considered illegitimate by Americans watching a video of it? That’s my guess too; it’s neither the US nor Iran, but some other bunch of assholes who are trying to bring the US in and/or hurt Iran by doing this stuff. It doesn’t make sense(to me) that the US would go to the trouble to gin up such a lame casus belli, and I’m not seeing why the Iranian government would do this- they just stand to lose overall if the US starts using force. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/200 "2019-06-17T18:08:57Z")
> [@bump](#): > > It doesn’t make sense(to me) that the US would go to the trouble to gin up such a lame casus belli, and I’m not seeing why the Iranian government would do this- they just stand to lose overall if the US starts using force. I think the theory goes that Iran is working to drive a wedge between the hardline U.S./Saudi policies and the more moderate European/rest of world policies. Since the US is not only sanctioning Iran, but countries that do business with Iran under the nuclear agreement, those sanctions have (a) been hurting Iran’s economy quite a lot; (b) bolstering the hands of hardliners in Iran that opposed the nuclear deal because the US couldn’t be trusted; and (c) pissing off our allies for having Trump threaten sanctions on them for deals that are specifically allowed by the nuclear agreement that is viewed favorably by everyone who isn’t Trump or Netanyahu. So Iran may think that they can stir up a bunch of shit and get the US and everyone else on even less of the same page, without wanting to start a war with the US which will be painful for Iran. I think there’s an awful lot of logic to this thinking: the point isn’t to sink a bunch of ships, it’s to stir the pot to make the US and Saudi look like they are itching for a war when nobody else wants to go that way. Plus, the shit-stirring may serve domestic purposes as well, as the economy in Iran [could use some distracting from.](https://www.ft.com/content/f0ee2e32-8cf2-11e9-a1c1-51bf8f989972) I still consider Iran the number one suspect, far and away, but of course we shouldn’t do anything rash. War with Iran should be avoided at all costs — but we shouldn’t pretend that some dangerous things going on are more likely an inside job. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470.md?page=11)