# New Attacks on Oil Tankers **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 13, 2019, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470 "2019-06-13T13:17:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/221 "2019-06-19T15:01:45Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Germany now pointing the finger at Iran: > > [https://www.dw.com/en/germany-says-there-is-strong-evidence-iran-behind-tanker-attacks/a-49248524](https://www.dw.com/en/germany-says-there-is-strong-evidence-iran-behind-tanker-attacks/a-49248524) I have trust in the Leader of the Free World, Angela Merkel. However, she said “strong evidence” rather than stating she’d reached an absolute conclusion, like the United States has. More evidence is going to be needed to be released to the public for the case to be proved. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/222 "2019-06-20T04:08:27Z")
Iran is now claiming the IRGC just shot down a US Global Hawk drone that entered their airspace. [Iran shoots down US surveillance drone, heightening tensions | AP News](https://www.apnews.com/e4316eb989d5499c9828350de8524963) US has declined to immediately comment. Probably trying to figure out just what happened, when. Not a cheap a/c; originally 60M when they came out, now upwards of 220M for the Navy’s Triton model. First guess, the a/c got GPS spoofed, a la the RQ-170 incident ([Iran–U.S. RQ-170 incident - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incident) ) and the drone actually was in Iranian airspace. Otherwise, it’s warlike to shoot down other country’s stuff in international airspace. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/223 "2019-06-20T14:07:58Z")
People keep saying that Bolton or Trump or some neocon wants war with Iran, but…for what? It won’t boost Trump’s reelection for sure, the American public is viscerally anti-Middle-East-war ever since Iraq/Afghanistan/Syria, it could only send Trump’s approval ratings into the tubes. It can’t be for oil; the U.S. is pumping out plenty of oil at home. It won’t benefit the U.S. economy for sure. Defense dollars? The Pentagon is already getting $700 billion+ defense budgets. It’s a warmonger theory with little to back it up. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/224 "2019-06-20T14:17:16Z")
Actions speak louder than theories, and every action we’ve taken since burning the nuclear agreement has moved us closer to war. Why? You’ll have to ask Trump and Co., but good luck getting a truthful answer from that bunch. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/225 "2019-06-20T14:35:34Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > People keep saying that Bolton or Trump or some neocon wants war with Iran It not that ‘people’ keep saying, it’s that Bolton himself and the neocons keep saying… and have been saying for years… that they want a war with Iran. They managed to convince Trump to tear up the treaty with Iran, and that seemed to go down well with Trump’s support base, who like to see America being macho. Why? Because they have some crazy dream of America controlling all the oil and ruling the world. > [@Velocity](#): > > It’s a warmonger theory with little to back it up. You may want to look up the definition of ‘warmonger’, because I think you meant the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/226 "2019-06-20T15:01:25Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > You may want to look up the definition of ‘warmonger’, because I think you meant the opposite. I know what the word means, I just phrased it poorly. But I stand by my point - there is nothing “in it” for the Trump administration to go to war with Iran, except risk a fiasco potentially several times worse than Iraq and guarantee a 2020 electoral defeat. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/227 "2019-06-20T15:03:12Z")
FWIW, [American oil production hit a record high recently.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/judeclemente/2019/03/01/u-s-crude-oil-production-exports-hit-record-levels/#71b91f545a78) There is absolutely no need for, or point in, a war for oil. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/228 "2019-06-20T15:06:07Z")
You are correct that war with Iran makes no sense, and that there’s no good damn reason for it. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/229 "2019-06-20T15:06:45Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > FWIW, [American oil production hit a record high recently.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/judeclemente/2019/03/01/u-s-crude-oil-production-exports-hit-record-levels/#71b91f545a78) There is absolutely no need for, or point in, a war for oil. And controlling oil to the rest of the world…? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/230 "2019-06-20T15:09:12Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > And controlling oil to the rest of the world…? The U.S. doesn’t need to control oil to the rest of the world. America is not a comic-book super-villain. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/231 "2019-06-20T15:13:39Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The U.S. doesn’t need to control oil to the rest of the world. America is not a comic-book super-villain. Tell that to Bolton. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/232 "2019-06-20T15:28:08Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > FWIW, [American oil production hit a record high recently.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/judeclemente/2019/03/01/u-s-crude-oil-production-exports-hit-record-levels/#71b91f545a78) There is absolutely no need for, or point in, a war for oil. Not for America. Given the effects of the sanctions on Iran’s economy, they might have an interest in increasing the price of oil. Both for their own coffers, as well as pushing the rest of the world to get the US to reduce or remove the sanctions. IOW, there is increased risk for oil moving thru the Gulf - except if that oil comes from Iran. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/233 "2019-06-20T15:38:24Z")
> [@Trump](#): > > Iran did do it. > > They’re in deep, deep trouble. [The Latest: Putin: US attack on Iran would be catastrophic](https://news.yahoo.com/latest-us-official-says-iranian-062916490.html) [Trump says attacks on oil tankers ‘very minor’](https://news.yahoo.com/trump-says-attacks-oil-tankers-very-minor-150157691.html) If I were a cynical person, I just might suspect our president is taking orders from our greatest adversary. . ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/234 "2019-06-20T16:14:43Z")
[Iranian Foreign Minister](https://twitter.com/JZarif): > [@Javad Zarif](#): > > The US wages #EconomicTerrorism on Iran, has conducted covert action against us & now encroaches on our territory. > > We don’t seek war, but will zealously defend our skies, land & waters. > > We’ll take this new aggression to #UN & show that the US is lying about international waters ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/235 "2019-06-20T16:24:36Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > There were a number of private security firms involved with investigating the DNC server hack. I’m only aware of one, CrowdStrike. If someone hires a cyber security firm, you take that as proof that there was a cyber attack? That doesn’t make sense. If a private intelligence firm concluded Iran was behind the attacks, would that increase your confidence level? > [@](#): > > Add to that “Russian hackers” has come to be as much a common phrase as “Swiss bankers” well before 2016, and it’s fairly believable. So you are biased to believe that Russian hackers do things against the US, but do not extend the bias to Iran carrying out attacks in its neighborhood. Well, okay. > [@](#): > > But the bar to cross here is much higher, as military action is a real possibility. I agree, this is a very important distinction. But it generally sounds like there’s no likely level of corroboration that the US government could provide that would lead you to the conclusion that Iran carried out the attacks. If France, UK, and Germany agreed that Iran was behind them, would that change your mind? ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/236 "2019-06-20T16:25:02Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The U.S. doesn’t need to control oil to the rest of the world. America is not a comic-book super-villain. The US didn’t need to invade Iraq either, and yet it did (control of the region’s oil being a red herring, elusive in any invasion, Iraq or Iran.) ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/237 "2019-06-20T16:30:44Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > The US didn’t need to invade Iraq either, and yet it did (control of the region’s oil being a red herring, elusive in any invasion, Iraq or Iran.) Boy howdy. Watching this all unfold is as much fun as watching a cranky baby play with a loaded gun in his crib. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/238 "2019-06-20T16:49:27Z")
[ABC News](https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1141744229410115585): > [@](#): > > JUST IN: Asked whether he would strike Iran in retaliation for downing a US drone, Pres. Trump says: “You’ll soon find out.” He didn’t say “we’ll see what happens”, which is what he normally says when he doesn’t have any idea about what he’s doing or going to do next, which might suggest that something could be in the offing. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/239 "2019-06-20T16:50:33Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > But it generally sounds like there’s no likely level of corroboration that the US government could provide that would lead you to the conclusion that Iran carried out the attacks. If France, UK, and Germany agreed that Iran was behind them, would that change your mind? That’s pretty much what I said. I know the Iranians are reasonably considered prime suspects but I won’t accept American finger pointing without outside corroboration. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/240 "2019-06-20T17:10:26Z")
[CBS News](https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1141749528762171393): > [@](#): > > Trump says he found it “hard to believe it was intentional” for Iran to shoot down U.S. drone [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470.md?page=13)