# New Attacks on Oil Tankers **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 13, 2019, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470 "2019-06-13T13:17:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/21 "2019-06-13T17:44:51Z")
As is often the case, the logical starting point for murky international incidents like this is “who benefits”? Who benefits, in the short, medium, and long term, from the attacks on these assets? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/22 "2019-06-13T17:47:12Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The CT is that the tanker attacks today were a false flag operation. That idea is laced throughout the CNN piece (at the time that he provided the link, the top content was “Iran will get the blame, but the Gulf of Oman truth is likely a lot murkier” Analysis from CNN’s Nick Paton Walsh, which is now a bit farther down the page): That is a completely loopy interpretation. What you quoted is merely displaying caution about blaming Iran, not a false flag inference. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/23 "2019-06-13T17:47:50Z")
Bear in mind that talking about “national interests” in this region is kind of pointless, because none of the countries are particularly monolithic. I mean, the Iranian Army and Council of Guardians may not give the order to sink oil tankers, but what about the Revolutionary Guard? Same thing in SA - MBS may not be stupid enough to attempt a false flag operation, but there are other Sauds out there with their own agendas. We just don’t know yet. ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/24 "2019-06-13T18:03:25Z")
A lot of people are already following the money, so I’m going to follow the weapons. Torpedoes from a surface ship would have been computer tracked back to that ship already. Torpedoes from a sub might not. A carrier group in the area could send up some Hawkeyes or Seahawks to hunt it down. (I could have sworn some carriers had P3-Orions for ASW, which are nearly perfect for this duty, but evidently that’s wrong.) * * * Look, I know its gruesome, but if you can track back the weapons used, you can track them back to what fired them… which tells you who ordered them fired. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/25 "2019-06-13T18:13:50Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I mean, the Iranian Army and Council of Guardians may not give the order to sink oil tankers, but what about the Revolutionary Guard? That seems to me an unusual way to run a country. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/26 "2019-06-13T18:21:15Z")
Oh, look. There’s Mike Pompeo on the tee vee already attributing the attack to Iran. Funny thing; I don’t see him offering any proof. Just rhetoric, as usual. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/27 "2019-06-13T18:31:35Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Oh how nice, CNN is pushing conspiracy theories now. What 'chu Tonkin 'bout, Willis? ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/28 "2019-06-13T18:32:57Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > That’s your idea of pushing a “false-flag operation”? > > OK And a CT? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/29 "2019-06-13T18:45:38Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > MBS may not be stupid enough to attempt a false flag operation I disagree, I think he is. He’s certainly reckless enough to, anyway. I think he’s one of the most dangerous national leaders in the world, and he’s only 33 years old, so is going to be on the world stage for many decades to come. I’m not saying he’s responsible for these attacks, but I wouldn’t rule it out. I think that he would love to go to war against Iran along with the U.S., as it could secure Saudi dominance in the region for many years. For this to happen, the time is now, with this U.S. Administration. In a couple of years, the opportunity may have passed. ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/30 "2019-06-13T18:47:46Z")
Way too much data to sift through to jump to a conclusion yet. I mean, if you want to spin the props on tinfoil hats, wasn’t it about 2 weeks ago that a P8 crossing the Med to get to the region was unsafe intercepted 3 times? Can’t a P8 pull ASW duty extremely well? Wasn’t one of the ships sunk by torpedoes? Could it be that there is a Russian sub floating in that area? Russians don’t like the US or the Saudis… and selling weapons to Iran for oil might appeal to them. ( See? Data is all over the place. It’s too early to say who did what yet. We need more hard evidence. ) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/31 "2019-06-13T18:49:08Z")
75,000 tons of methanol has got to have some impact on the sea environment… ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/32 "2019-06-13T18:52:50Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Oh, look. There’s Mike Pompeo on the tee vee already attributing the attack to Iran. Funny thing; I don’t see him offering any proof. Just rhetoric, as usual. This is one of those rare occasions when having an administration that routinely spins, dissembles and fabricates, headed by a man who brazenly lies dozens (if not hundreds) of times a day about matters both momentous and inconsequential. disinclines one to immediately take anything they say at face value. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/33 "2019-06-13T18:53:34Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > I disagree, I think he is. He’s certainly reckless enough to, anyway. I think he’s one of the most dangerous national leaders in the world, and he’s only 33 years old, so is going to be on the world stage for many decades to come. I’m not saying he’s responsible for these attacks, but I wouldn’t rule it out. I think that he would love to go to war against Iran along with the U.S., as it could secure Saudi dominance in the region for many years. For this to happen, the time is now, with this U.S. Administration. In a couple of years, the opportunity may have passed. The Big Power Grab is all the rage right now, eh. And yeah, this is a limited time offer, so people have to act now! ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/34 "2019-06-13T19:02:29Z")
> [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](#): > > …Wasn’t one of the ships sunk by torpedoes? … So we’re not even sure if one of the ships has sunk, or it it’s still floating, but Pompeo is certain who did it. Yup. Sounds about right. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/35 "2019-06-13T19:06:06Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The CT is that the tanker attacks today were a false flag operation. That idea is laced throughout the CNN piece (at the time that he provided the link, the top content was “Iran will get the blame, but the Gulf of Oman truth is likely a lot murkier” Analysis from CNN’s Nick Paton Walsh, which is now a bit farther down the page): In order for it to be a “false flag” attack, doesn’t there have to be a flag? No one has claimed responsibility, have they? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/36 "2019-06-13T19:18:33Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > In order for it to be a “false flag” attack, doesn’t there have to be a flag? No one has claimed responsibility, have they? [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag) describes it thus: > [@](#): > > A false flag is a covert operation designed to deceive; the deception creates the appearance of a particular party, group, or nation being responsible for some activity, disguising the actual source of responsibility. The “smoking gun” evidence being cited for Iranian involvement is that limpet mines were used, and Iranians have used limpet mines in the past. However, if it _was_ a false flag operation, then whoever did it would surely have used limpet mines to implicate Iran. So better evidence is going to be needed to provide proof beyond a reasonable doubt. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/37 "2019-06-13T19:22:46Z")
I say we start by counting how many ships are still floating there, and comparing that to the number of ships that we expect to find, which is two. Just as a starting point. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/38 "2019-06-13T19:37:32Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > This is one of those rare occasions when having an administration that routinely spins, dissembles and fabricates, headed by a man who brazenly lies dozens (if not hundreds) of times a day about matters both momentous and inconsequential. disinclines one to immediately take anything they say at face value. Perfectly true and perfectly said. I agree with the U.N. Let’s establish facts before attributing responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/39 "2019-06-13T19:40:03Z")
One of the tankers involved in [today’s incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_2019_Gulf_of_Oman_incident) was the Japanese-owned _Kokuka Courageous_. Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is [currently in Iran](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-48578314), hoping to ease tensions between Iran and the US. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470/40 "2019-06-13T19:42:42Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > So we’re not even sure if one of the ships has sunk, or it it’s still floating, but Pompeo is certain who did it. > Yup. Sounds about right. The media has conflicting reports. I generally suspect Secretary Pompeo has more concrete intel than the media, and I doubt this matter is an exception. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-attacks-on-oil-tankers/835470.md?page=3)