# New basic color word in English **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 17, 2016, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326 "2016-02-17T11:40:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/21 "2016-02-17T16:11:39Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Really? I’m four decades removed from regular interactions with crayons, but I remember my Crayola boxes having purple _and_ violet. Which I thought odd, even at five, since they were basically the same color. IIRC, and I may not, the violet crayon was slightly more blue than the purple. Crayola Crayon geek here, I have documentation of all color names used by Crayola. Right now it’s at a bit over 720. I have actual crayons in all but about 20 of the known color names. A crayon name purple and did not include violet too was used in the early days of the Crayola line. The [Crayon Collecting](http://www.crayoncollecting.com/index.htm)website show the name purple was not used as a primary crayon color between 1914 and 1990, it was only used in Mexico after 1990. The only Crayola crayon I have that is purple without the violet is from a set of crayons from about 1910. My 1903 set of crayons just has a violet without the purple in parentheses. There is also a crayon color named “The Color Purple”, Oprah Winfrey was given a box of crayons with that special moniker. Each guest in her audience that day was give an 8 pack that that crayon replacing the violet crayon. But alas, it is not violet or purple, it is the same color as the violet-blue crayon. That box of crayons cost me $400, I consider worth every penny. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/22 "2016-02-17T16:18:36Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > That Cyan is between Blue and Green. Indigo is between Blue and Violet. Calling what is now called “Indigo” by the name “Cyan” would leave us with a still-indistinguishable-from-blue color, only now it would be called “cyan”. > > Newton didn’t think his extra color belonged between blue and green. He was building his case on the ratios of what we would call wavelengths (only Newton didn’t believe in the wave theory\*) of light and those of the do-re-me musical scale. “ti” worked perfectly as violet and “sol” as blue. He needed a color for his “la”. What we call “cyan” would have to fit between Green = “fa” and Blue = “sol”, and he didn’t need a color there, as there was no gap. I forget my footnote: \*Even though Newton didn’t believe the Wave Theory of Light, he did associate a certain characteristic length with each color. He obtained these from his measurements and calculations for the phenomenon we call “Newton’s Rings” (This phenomenon might also have suggested the analogy between colors and musical tones, as well – The colors repeat in different “octaves” after one another, just as the notes in a scale do, for instance, on a piano keyboard). The gap between the lower plane glass surface and the upper spherical glass surface has a certain size, and red re-appeared when this gap distance was a multiple of its first appearance. To me, that characteristic length would be strong evidence to re-examine my stand on light being a wave phenomenon, because it strongly suggests “wavelength”. But Newton’s convictions were stronger than mine, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Macca26](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Macca26](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macca26)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/23 "2016-02-17T16:24:29Z")
I, too, would vote for cyan. It’s established in printing media so it’s not an unknown color, and I feel that it is distinct from “blue” and “green”. However, as one person mentioned, light blues start to get pretty iffy in that spectrum and a light cyan may not seem very distinct from a blue. I have always understood violet to denote a color using close or exactly 50% red and 50% blue. Purple, on the other hand, could be any mix of the two and usually falls a little more on the blue side. There is something back in my memory with a teacher saying to the class, “Now, if you ask for violet at the paint store, you’ll always get a 50/50 mix. But if you ask for purple you could get anything” ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/24 "2016-02-17T16:29:44Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > That Cyan is between Blue and Green. Indigo is between Blue and Violet. Calling what is now called “Indigo” by the name “Cyan” would leave us with a still-indistinguishable-from-blue color, only now it would be called “cyan”. > > Newton didn’t think his extra color belonged between blue and green. He was building his case on the ratios of what we would call wavelengths (only Newton didn’t believe in the wave theory\*) of light and those of the do-re-me musical scale. “ti” worked perfectly as violet and “sol” as blue. He needed a color for his “la”. What we call “cyan” would have to fit between Green = “fa” and Blue = “sol”, and he didn’t need a color there, as there was no gap. Good discussion and thanks for all you are discussing **Cal**. Ignorance fought. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/25 "2016-02-17T17:01:23Z")
> [@racer72](#): > > Crayola Crayon geek here, I have documentation of all color names used by Crayola. Right now it’s at a bit over 720. I have actual crayons in all but about 20 of the known color names. A crayon name purple and did not include violet too was used in the early days of the Crayola line. The [Crayon Collecting](http://www.crayoncollecting.com/index.htm)website show the name purple was not used as a primary crayon color between 1914 and 1990, it was only used in Mexico after 1990. The only Crayola crayon I have that is purple without the violet is from a set of crayons from about 1910. My 1903 set of crayons just has a violet without the purple in parentheses. There is also a crayon color named “The Color Purple”, Oprah Winfrey was given a box of crayons with that special moniker. Each guest in her audience that day was give an 8 pack that that crayon replacing the violet crayon. But alas, it is not violet or purple, it is the same color as the violet-blue crayon. That box of crayons cost me $400, I consider worth every penny. Now I know that Crayola collecting is a thing. How on earth did a crayon survive since 1903 with so many small children and blank walls in the world? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/26 "2016-02-17T18:28:07Z")
I’d probably vote for magenta ahead of a lot of things; it at least is a reasonably well known word and has a clear definition. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/27 "2016-02-17T18:40:31Z")
> [@racer72](#): > > Crayola Crayon geek here, I have documentation of all color names used by Crayola. Right now it’s at a bit over 720. I have actual crayons in all but about 20 of the known color names. A crayon name purple and did not include violet too was used in the early days of the Crayola line. The [Crayon Collecting](http://www.crayoncollecting.com/index.htm)website show the name purple was not used as a primary crayon color between 1914 and 1990, it was only used in Mexico after 1990. The only Crayola crayon I have that is purple without the violet is from a set of crayons from about 1910. My 1903 set of crayons just has a violet without the purple in parentheses. There is also a crayon color named “The Color Purple”, Oprah Winfrey was given a box of crayons with that special moniker. Each guest in her audience that day was give an 8 pack that that crayon replacing the violet crayon. But alas, it is not violet or purple, it is the same color as the violet-blue crayon. That box of crayons cost me $400, I consider worth every penny. So my memory played me false. Well, as I said, it’s forty years out-of-date. Collecting Crayola crayons, eh? That’s…really really cool. I bet your house smells _wonderful_. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/28 "2016-02-17T18:52:51Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I’d probably vote for magenta ahead of a lot of things; it at least is a reasonably well known word and has a clear definition. But how often do you run into something magenta? And besides, if we’re already counting pink, that’ll have you covered in a pinch. Cyan is more useful. Edit: Plus, cyan is a spectral color. Magenta is only in your mind. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/29 "2016-02-17T19:27:12Z")
How about salmon? It’s not really pink and it’s not really orange. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/30 "2016-02-17T19:42:34Z")
The Master’s column is titled “Could early man only see three colors?” It may be amusing to look at [Calvin and Hobbes’ take on this issue](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CWM1zDcmWXs/TroD0VsX4WI/AAAAAAAAAVA/Jc5bN5xSTkc/s1600/ch930919.gif). ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/31 "2016-02-17T20:40:07Z")
I, myself, find myself using “teal” often. It’s not readily visible in a spectrum, but teal occupies a significant patch of [one basic linguistic-research color chart](https://www1.icsi.berkeley.edu/wcs/images/jrus-20100531/wcs-chart-4x.png). ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/32 "2016-02-17T21:21:26Z")
[QUOTE=Macca26] I, too, would vote for cyan. It’s established in printing media so it’s not an unknown color, and I feel that it is distinct from “blue” and “green”. However, as one person mentioned, light blues start to get pretty iffy in that spectrum and a light cyan may not seem very distinct from a blue. [/QUOTE] Then we need to add magenta as a basic color word as it’s equally important in four-color process printing. At least we already have yellow and black. But, aside from an anthropological curiosity, what’s the purpose of trying to pin down only a dozen or so “basic” colors? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/33 "2016-02-17T22:25:39Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Just to be clear, these are the 11? > > 1. Black > 2. White > 3. Red > 4. Blue > 5. Green > 6. Yellow > 7. Orange > 8. Brown > 9. Purple > 10. Pink > 11. Gray Exactly right. > [@kayaker](#): > > First, get rid of taupe and eggshell. Done! And puce too, while we’re at it. > [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Aqua is getting quite a bit of usage as a light blue-green (or green-blue). For some reason I just never got a good feeling for what shades aqua represents. Perhaps it’s because I learned aqua means “water” in Latin, and that confused me. I’ll take your word that that’s what people mean. > [@jjimm](#): > > Italian uses azzurro for light greeny-blue. I was going by what I read on the interwebs about Italian having a word for light blue. Sounds like that’s the word they meant and it includes some shades that are not exacty light blue. There’s nothing wrong with that; a 12th color word will not necessarily correspond to just being a {light|dark}{orther color}. > [@](#): > > Azure was good enough for Shakespeare, and it works for me too. Yes, but does it immediately roll off the tongue if you have to describe a light blue object? It sure doesn’t for me. And that’s pretty much the definition of a basic color word. > [@panache45](#): > > I’m an artist, and work with color all the time. When you actually look at an array of colors, e.g. a “color wheel,” the biggest gap is between yellow and green. That is, there’s a tremendous contrast between those two, and they beg for an intermediate color. So I nominate yellow-green, or chartreuse. I agree on the yellow-green. That’s why I suggested lime in the OP, short for lime-green. And you see it all the time. Visibility vests worn by utility/road workers and many bicyclists’ jackets are lime. Chartreuse would work too, but if it’s going to be a basic color word, we’ll have to settle on just one of them. > [@bordelond](#): > > I, myself, find myself using “teal” often. It’s not readily visible in a spectrum, but teal occupies a significant patch of [one basic linguistic-research color chart](https://www1.icsi.berkeley.edu/wcs/images/jrus-20100531/wcs-chart-4x.png). I always think of teal as being a brilliant blue-green, pretty much exactly the shade of the duck, but not just any shade of blue-green. (The green teal duck, that is; there are other teal ducks that don’t have that color.) I learned turquoise as a color before I found out it was a mineral, so I tend to think of it as just any blue-green. So my thinking on these two are influenced by how I learned about them. YMMV. You can also find the words bleen and grue used for blue-green. Doubt if they’ll ever catch on. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/34 "2016-02-17T23:00:13Z")
> [@Macca26](#): > > I have always understood violet to denote a color using close or exactly 50% red and 50% blue. Purple, on the other hand, could be any mix of the two and usually falls a little more on the blue side. There is something back in my memory with a teacher saying to the class, “Now, if you ask for violet at the paint store, you’ll always get a 50/50 mix. But if you ask for purple you could get anything” I would have thought it was the other way around, with violet being bluer since violets are bluer: [![](https://i.pinimg.com/564x/45/ff/de/45ffde286444f8b1a7e1c9ac2a1b103b.jpg) ](https://i.pinimg.com/564x/45/ff/de/45ffde286444f8b1a7e1c9ac2a1b103b.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/35 "2016-02-17T23:50:26Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Yes, but does it immediately roll off the tongue if you have to describe a light blue object? It sure doesn’t for me. And that’s pretty much the definition of a basic color word. > > You can also find the words bleen and grue used for blue-green. Doubt if they’ll ever catch on. Well, how about _sky_? It’s short, basic, and, like _orange_, _violet_ and _lime_, has a physical referent. As to _grue_ and _bleen_, I don’t think they’re “real” color words - I’ve only encountered them in a thought experiment that described a logical paradox. _Grue_, IIRC, was the color of a stone that was green until midnight on December 31, 1999, and blue thereafter. _Bleen_ was the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/36 "2016-02-18T02:04:54Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Well, how about _sky_? It’s short, basic, and, like _orange_, _violet_ and _lime_, has a physical referent. Yes, that might work. Or perhaps _powder_. But note that having a physical referent is a not a requirement for a basic color word. In fact, if it has one (as orange and pink do), it has to be shown that it’s “outgrown” the referent. > [@](#): > > As to _grue_ and _bleen_, I don’t think they’re “real” color words - I’ve only encountered them in a thought experiment that described a logical paradox. _Grue_, IIRC, was the color of a stone that was green until midnight on December 31, 1999, and blue thereafter. _Bleen_ was the opposite. Hadn’t run across that one before. But you can find other uses of them on the infobahn. How about we just merge them into _gruebleen_ for that color… ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/37 "2016-02-18T05:06:42Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Yes, that might work. Or perhaps _powder_. But note that having a physical referent is a not a requirement for a basic color word. In fact, if it has one (as orange and pink do), it has to be shown that it’s “outgrown” the referent. _Powder_ suggests white, to me. As in, baking powder, or Bolivian Marching Powder, or “Twelve inches of fresh powder at Telluride! Grab your snowboard, dude!” ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/38 "2016-02-18T09:16:43Z")
Good point. I was thinking of _powder blue_, but without the “blue” part of it, it gets a different connotation. So scratch that one. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/39 "2016-02-18T09:46:10Z")
Another vote for cyan. It’s as good a word as any for a light, brilliant blue. Magenta a close second, but with purple/violet and pink already on the table, I’d rather cyan make the grade. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/40 "2016-02-18T09:50:40Z")
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