# New basic color word in English **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 17, 2016, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326 "2016-02-17T11:40:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/41 "2016-02-18T10:03:50Z")
^ You already have those in the color list for resistors. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/42 "2016-02-18T11:50:10Z")
_Red and yellow and green and brown and scarlet and black and ochre and peach and ruby and olive and violet and fawn and lilac and gold and chocolate and mauve and cream and crimson and silver and rose and azure and lemon and russet and grey and purple and white and pink and orange and blue._ Those ought to be enough for anybody. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/43 "2016-02-18T14:39:37Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > _Red and yellow and green and brown and scarlet and black and ochre and peach and ruby and olive and violet and fawn and lilac and gold and chocolate and mauve and cream and crimson and silver and rose and azure and lemon and russet and grey and purple and white and pink and orange and blue._ > > Those ought to be enough for anybody. Can you throw in turquoise? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/44 "2016-02-18T15:42:37Z")
Ludwig von Drake – The Spectrum Song > **[Ludwig Von Drake Spectrum Song - Yahoo Video Search Results](https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=A0LEVxhu5cVWLawAxXpXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTByMjB0aG5zBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw--?p=Ludwig%2BVon%2BDrake%2BSpectrum%2BSong&fr=yfp-t-201#id=3&vid=f7ccad58252a0b58932e0e233105a8ad&action=view)** > > The search engine that helps you find exactly what you're looking for. Find the most relevant information, video, images, and answers from all across the Web. (From the very first episode of _Walt Disney’s Wonderful World of Color_) > **[The Spectrum Song](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spectrum_Song)** > > "The Spectrum Song" was written by the Sherman Brothers in 1961 under assignment from Walt Disney to be a signature song for the fictional character Ludwig Von Drake. Nominally about different colors in the spectrum, the song's lyrics initially consist of the repeated color names red, yellow, green and blue, but soon veer wildly off into cerise, chartreuse, ultramarine and plaid. > The song was introduced in the cartoon segment "An Adventure in Color," which first aired on September 24, 1961 as pa... Lyrics: > **[The Spectrum Song](https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/The_Spectrum_Song)** > > "The Spectrum Song" (sung by Paul Frees as Ludwig Von Drake) is a song showcasing colors featured in the first episode of Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color television series, "An Adventure in Color/Mathmagicland" and later in the DuckTales... I wanted to use this as an epigraph in my book **Zap!** , but we couldn’t get permission. I didn’t understand the last line for years. It’s a reference to the song “Lavender Blue”, sung by Burl Ives in the Disney film _So Dear to my Heart_. The movie was released in 1948, and wasn’t a huge success, while WWoC premiered 13 years later in 1961. Why they made a joke depending on a lackluster film from over a dozen years earlier I do not understand. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/45 "2016-02-18T16:01:04Z")
The problem with color words is a question of whether they’re spectral-based or historical-based. If we’re talking the spectrum then it only makes sense that we need to have cyan and magenta included. As it is, pink is largely thought of as light red, but I’ve seen pink used to describe things from almost light orange all the way through light red and light magenta to even pushing light purple. Pink is such a vague color, but it has such a prevalence in modern culture that we can’t get rid of it. To that similar extent, what is described as blue covers a huge portion of the spectrum that really should be split up to include cyan, and then on the other end orange is such a small portion of the spectrum but it gets its own name. Then again, even if it’s a small amount of the spectrum, it’s something we see enough in nature and in everyday life that it makes sense to give it it’s own name. So, in this context, I think it makes sense that if we’re going to add a color name it should be because it’s something we see a lot and find we have to clarify what we mean. That’s why orange exists and not red-yellow or yellow-red and also why pink exists. I rarely hear distinctions about a red orange, but I do often hear things called blue-green, so it would make sense to me to add cyan or some word to describe that range more than any other color. ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/46 "2016-02-18T16:14:41Z")
> [@Catamount](#): > > Now I know that Crayola collecting is a thing. How on earth did a crayon survive since 1903 with so many small children and blank walls in the world? Crayola crayons were originally sold as an artist’s item, not something for children to use. It wasn’t till the teens that Crayola started marketing crayons to children. Even then, Crayola still market a variety of crayons for the adults. Most of these were pressed crayons, molded under pressure and were much harder than regular crayons. Also broke a lot easier too. They were also sold under other names such as Besco. I recently scored a 24 count set of crayons from about 1907, all unused in mint condition. Most of the color names used back then are not in use any more. Some of the crayons colors from then are Chrome Green, light and Madder Lake. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/47 "2016-02-18T17:44:20Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > English, like many languages, has 11 basic color words. No where in the column cited does it say that English only has 11 basic color words. It says that across 98 languages studied they had words for these colors in common. > [@dtilque](#): > > Maybe lime or turquoise. These are already words that are colors. You disproved your OP in your OP. > [@BigT](#): > > But we tend to consider violet and purple to be the same. Maybe you do but not all of us do. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/48 "2016-02-18T18:49:51Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I didn’t understand the last line for years. It’s a reference to the song “Lavender Blue”, sung by Burl Ives in the Disney film _So Dear to my Heart_. The movie was released in 1948, and wasn’t a huge success, while WWoC premiered 13 years later in 1961. Why they made a joke depending on a lackluster film from over a dozen years earlier I do not understand. It’s an old nursery rhyme [Lavender's Blue - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavender%27s_Blue) and references colors – makes sense they’d throw it in there. I remember it from the 80s hit by Marillion. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/49 "2016-02-18T20:04:00Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > It’s an old nursery rhyme [Lavender's Blue - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavender%27s_Blue) and references colors – makes sense they’d throw it in there. > > I remember it from the 80s hit by Marillion. Yes, but von Drake was almost certainly referencing the Burl Ives song. Makes sense, because _So Dear to my Heart_ was, after all, a Disney film. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/50 "2016-02-18T23:20:30Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > No where in the column cited does it say that English only has 11 basic color words. It says that across 98 languages studied they had words for these colors in common. OK, Cecil doesn’t give the concept of Basic Color Words (BCW) a very good description. The idea is not that there’s only 11 color words in English or any other language. Rather, the BCW are words that are generally used when describing the color of a random object. So the BCW will cover pretty much the entire color space. > [@](#): > > These are already words that are colors. You disproved your OP in your OP. Did nothing of the kind. Those are not BCW, they’re secondary color words, of which English has a plethora. Secondary color words are generally subsumed under one of the BCW. For instance, _cardinal_ and _scarlet_ are considered shades of _red_. But nothing is considered a shade of scarlet nor is red considered a shade of anything else. I suggested turquoise and lime because they sort of fall along the boundaries of two fo the BCW. And there seems to be somewhat of a consensus here that a color in the blue-green area is likely to be the next BCW. Or maybe they just feel there’s a need for such a color. But is it going to be cyan, turquoise, teal, or aqua? Personally, I didn’t encounter the word _cyan_ until some time in adulthood (like in my 30s), so it’s not a color word that easily comes to mind. Younger people may have a different experience. Another possibility for #12, in a different part of the color space, is _maroon_. Does anyone think that it’s a distinct color different than purple? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/51 "2016-02-18T23:24:39Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Another possibility for #12, in a different part of the color space, is _maroon_. Does anyone think that it’s a distinct color different than purple? Maroon is a shade of red, and not purple at all. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/52 "2016-02-18T23:28:11Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Maroon is a shade of red, and not purple at all. It’s also a useful Bugs Bunny insult. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2016, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/53 "2016-02-20T00:29:57Z")
Teal is an (the?) obvious choice. It’s already a basic color in Chinese tradition, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2016, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/54 "2016-02-20T00:46:30Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > I would have thought it was the other way around, with violet being bluer since violets are bluer: > > [https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/45/ff/de/45ffde286444f8b1a7e1c9ac2a1b103b.jpg](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/45/ff/de/45ffde286444f8b1a7e1c9ac2a1b103b.jpg) That is a weird color wheel. Normally in pigment mixing one would use cyan, yellow, & magenta, \*not \*blue, red, & yellow. And of course in electronic displays we use red, green, & blue. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2016, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/55 "2016-02-20T03:39:23Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > That is a weird color wheel. > > Normally in pigment mixing one would use cyan, yellow, & magenta, \*not \*blue, red, & yellow. And of course in electronic displays we use red, green, & blue. Nothing weird about that color wheel. There are lots of different ways to represent human color vision in a 2D wheel, all equally (in-)accurate. Actually pigment mixing _is_ typically represented with RBY. CYM(K) is used by printers where subtractive colors are mixed in a different way (e.g. you can make a lighter color by just increasing the space between dots…it’s not the same thing that painters do) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2016, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/56 "2016-02-20T05:52:35Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > But how often do you run into something magenta? Well, the T-Mobile and Deutsche Telekom logos. I’ve always kind of joked that that’s the only place in the wild where that color exists. As somebody who grew up with a Commodore VIC-20, I would go with cyan, as well. Looking at the rainbow or a chart of the [visible spectrum](http://www.chm.davidson.edu/vce/coordchem/spectrum.jpg), it seems odd to me that cyan should be a basic color. Not as obvious, there’s also that chartreuse region between green and yellow and that amber region between orange and yellow (like with yellow traffic lights–they’re not really yellow; they’re not quite orange; they’re amber.) ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2016, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/57 "2016-02-20T08:09:37Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Maroon is a shade of red, and not purple at all. I suppose, but I’ve seen colors that seemed more purplish than reddish called maroon. For example, the first time I recall encountering the color/word was on the uniforms of some little league team which everyone was calling maroon. But the color was actually more of a reddish purple than a brownish red. I want to note that people in this thread are getting hung up on the wrong thing. This is mostly a linguistics question, not one of light, the spectrum/rainbow, color wheels, additive/subtractive colors, or primary/secondary colors. Think about it this way: Is there some word that people use fairly often (although it doesn’t have to be the majority of the time) instead of one of the 11 BCW for some section of the color space? I doubt if cyan is used all that often, except in technical uses. Maroon, turquoise, teal, and aqua may qualify. Maybe some other word: olive, peach, tan, beige, something else? ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2016, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/58 "2016-02-20T11:24:41Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > That is a weird color wheel. > > Normally in pigment mixing one would use cyan, yellow, & magenta, \*not \*blue, red, & yellow. And of course in electronic displays we use red, green, & blue. Aren’t cyan and magenta different shades of red and blue? So even printers use a version of RBY, just lighter/brighter. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2016, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/59 "2016-02-20T13:57:37Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > I suppose, but I’ve seen colors that seemed more purplish than reddish called maroon. Sure. All these terms are fuzzily open to interpretation, I was just putting mine out there. Even “black” and “white” are surprisingly soft, IME. > [@dtilque](#): > > I want to note that people in this thread are getting hung up on the wrong thing. This is mostly a linguistics question … Is there some word that people use fairly often (although it doesn’t have to be the majority of the time) instead of one of the 11 BCW for some section of the color space? I doubt if cyan is used all that often, except in technical uses. Maroon, turquoise, teal, and aqua may qualify. Maybe some other word: olive, peach, tan, beige, something else? Right. I bet “tan” and/or “beige” turn up a lot in common conversation. How about a multiple-choice poll? Which ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2016, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326/60 "2016-02-20T14:12:37Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > it seems odd to me that cyan should be a basic color. That should be “it seems odd to me that cyan should not be a basic color.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-basic-color-word-in-english/746326.md?page=4)