# New, better, Social Security No. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 25, 2000, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-better-social-security-no/26712 "2000-07-25T00:48:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![popokis5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@popokis5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/popokis5)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2000, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-better-social-security-no/26712/1 "2000-07-25T00:48:15Z")
I got a letter in the mail a while back that said since Social Security numbers are only required to be used for employment and taxes, that (for a small fee) you can aquire a brand new shiny SS#. As long as you use your original # for work and taxes, this is supposedly perfectly legal for credit, etc. Has anyone else ever heard of this or received literature on this? Who knows, maybe there is some obscure allowence somewhere for this kind of thing. Brand new credit–oh the thinks you can think. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2000, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-better-social-security-no/26712/2 "2000-07-25T01:50:50Z")
I seriously doubt the legality. When applying for credit, they ask for your SSN. They assume you will be putting down the same number the IRS uses. If you give them a different number, no matter how official looking (and I believe the Social Security Administration is the only people who can give an SSN), it’s probably fraud. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2000, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-better-social-security-no/26712/3 "2000-07-25T01:52:09Z")
I don’t know… I know there are a lot of scams to get other SS numbers for yourself and all illeagle. also the older cards state on them number not to be used for identification purposes - or something to that effect. that has been long removed ---
**Author:** ![tcburnett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@tcburnett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tcburnett)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2000, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-better-social-security-no/26712/4 "2000-07-25T09:25:40Z")
This has been used since SS numbers were invented and more so in the 60s (and after) to obtain ‘new identities’. New identities used to be pretty easy, but not anymore. Don’t get caught doing it. If you want to be pretty safe, switch your first and middle name on applications and transpose the last 4 digits of your SSN. The government will have a hard time proving you did it on purpose and it will serve the same purpose. You didn’t hear that from me, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2000, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-better-social-security-no/26712/5 "2000-07-25T10:12:09Z")
Good answer tcburnett, If that _is[/_ your _real_ name… ---
**Author:** ![popokis5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@popokis5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/popokis5)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2000, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-better-social-security-no/26712/6 "2000-07-25T13:23:12Z")
I know it sounds illegal- Chuck, just because credit is assuming that the number is the same as the IRS uses, does that mean it is illegal? I mean, the IRS doesn’t give out information, it’s the credit information swap cartel. tc, I know what you’re saying but I don’t believe that this is a new identity thing. But you know, that old switcharooni thing that I didn’t hear from you sounds interesting… ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2000, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-better-social-security-no/26712/7 "2000-07-25T18:45:48Z")
Oy vey! Vat a mess! 1. SSN is NOT required for employment. It is required for the employer to withhold taxes from your salary. If you report your own taxes and can otherwise verify your citizenship status, the employer has no “right” to your SSN. 2. Only the Social Security Administration can issue an SSN. They only issue one per person, period. Possessing more than one SSN is illegal, period. 3. The people who send letters/emails offering a new SSN (or offering to “clear your credit reports”) are con artists. They can legally do neither, but they can and will take your money, sucker. If they do anything at all, it usually involves a TIN (Taxpayer Identification Number) which is the business equivialent of an SSN. The number sequence for an SSN is XXX-XX-XXXX, a TIN is XX-XXXXXXX. No credit grantor will accept a TIN for individual credit. 4. The “credit information swap cartel” exists for a reason. If you screwed up your credit, live with the conequences. It will only last 7-10 years, tops. If there is an error on your credit report, you have legal recourse to fix it - do so. 5. Your intent sounds like obtaining credit using false information. That’s fraud, and also illegal. 6. Credit reporting agencies WILL catch name swaps and SSN transpositions, either through “name mismatch” or “SSN not valid”. They ain’t stupid, you know. Consider whether that car loan or credit card is worth multiple felonies. ---
**Author:** ![Rusalka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecd19e/32.png) [@Rusalka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rusalka)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2000, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-better-social-security-no/26712/8 "2000-07-25T18:51:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tcburnett \* > \*\*This has been used since SS numbers were invented and more so in the 60s (and after) to obtain ‘new identities’. New identities used to be pretty easy, but not anymore. Don’t get caught doing it. If you want to be pretty safe, switch your first and middle name on applications and transpose the last 4 digits of your SSN. The government will have a hard time proving you did it on purpose and it will serve the same purpose. You didn’t hear that from me, by the way. \*\* I’ve always wondered about this. Actually I use this trick (changing one number) for places that “require” a ssn number for ID purposes and who I think have no biz knowing my SSN. However, once when I tried this with my new health insurance company it caused more problems because the number I used was ALREADY used by another person in their database, so after a lot of hassle I had to use my real number anyway. (It was Blue Cross Blue Shield, btw) O.K. So this brings me to another question. Doesn’t the credit card cartel know everyone’s SSN? In other words, if you use your correct name and transpose the numbers of your SSN, don’t they see that right away? Don’t they have a database that says: “111-22-3333 belongs to Jane Doe”? ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2000, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-better-social-security-no/26712/9 "2000-07-25T19:14:27Z")
> [@](#): > > **SSN is NOT required for employment** I think we need to send the jury back out on that one. In every job I have ever had I was asked by the personnel dept for my ss# so they could verify my US citizenship & know that I am eligible to work in this country. I suppose I could have shown them my birth certificate and accomplished the same thing, but you’d think that personnel depts in fortune-50 companies would know better than to ask for something they’re not required to have. My neighbor had to show her ss card to her employer because she is a German citizen and her brand-new ss card was the only proof she had that she was granted the right to work in the US. Her EAD (employment authorization document) was still a few months away in the mail… damn INS. Her ss card actually has “valid for work authorization only” printed right on it- I saw it with my very own eye balls. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2000, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-better-social-security-no/26712/10 "2000-07-25T19:23:22Z")
If you don’t want to give your own SSN on a form, just give 'em Richard Nixon’s. It’s 567-68-0515, according to the George Hayduke book _Getting Even_. ---
**Author:** ![Alphagene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Alphagene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alphagene)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2000, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-better-social-security-no/26712/11 "2000-07-25T19:31:56Z")
[Are social security numbers recycled? What do the numbers mean?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_315.html) ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2000, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-better-social-security-no/26712/12 "2000-07-25T20:30:33Z")
Opus notes: > [@](#): > > In every job I have ever had I was asked by the personnel dept for my ss# so they could verify my US citizenship & know that I am eligible to work in this country. I suppose I could have shown them my birth certificate and accomplished the same thing, but you’d think that personnel depts in fortune-50 companies would know better than to ask for something they’re not required to have. The problem is that an SSN is by far the easiest way to verify citizenship/work status. Virtually everyone either knows their SSN or carries their card. SSN’s, by virtue of being a unique identifier of each US citizen, have taken on roles for which they were never intended (let alone mandated). I have no doubt that the vast majority of companies would not hire you without an SSN but that is company policy, not law. Small solice, maybe, but we’re picking nits here! You have the right to keep your SSN private, but merchants and employers have the right to turn you away as well. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2000, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-better-social-security-no/26712/13 "2000-07-25T20:33:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Max Torque \* > If you don’t want to give your own SSN on a form, just give 'em Richard Nixon’s. It’s 567-68-0515, according to the George Hayduke book _Getting Even_. That may be true. According to the [Social Security Death Index](http://ssdi.genealogy.rootsweb.com/), SSN 567-68-0515 belongs to a “Richard Nixon” and some yahoo posted a little note to the effect that is, indeed, the SSN of the late president of the USa. ---
**Author:** ![KeithB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/48db29/32.png) [@KeithB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KeithB)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2000, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-better-social-security-no/26712/14 "2000-07-25T20:48:12Z")
When you start to work you must: 1. Establish that you have the legal right to work in the US. 2. Provide a SSN for tax-witholding purposes. A SSN card does both. When I started a new job a few years ago, I had been without a SSN card for about 10 years, since I had worked at one place for a long time. My passport worked fine to establish my right to work in the US, and they took my word for my SSN, so no SSN card was required. ---
**Author:** ![popokis5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@popokis5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/popokis5)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2000, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-better-social-security-no/26712/15 "2000-07-25T22:45:00Z")
Wait, wait, Dr. J- I was just curious about this letter. I have have no intention of committing a felony! I didn’t send money! I know if it sounds too good to be true it usually is! But sometimes you never know…i.e. homesteading in the U.S. Opus-the last job I got I didn’t know where my SS card was and I showed them my passport. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecccb3/32.png) [@Lord\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2000, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-better-social-security-no/26712/16 "2000-07-25T22:56:59Z")
Just curious, isn’t an employer required by law to report earnings to the IRS? How would they do that without an SSN? Jim