# New Billy the Kid photo authenticated. Insured for 5 million. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 13, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-billy-the-kid-photo-authenticated-insured-for-5-million/734557 "2015-10-13T17:07:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2015, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-billy-the-kid-photo-authenticated-insured-for-5-million/734557/41 "2015-10-16T03:49:52Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > I never imagined Billy playing croquet, or wearing such stylish apparel. What would such a sweater (?) be called? He _was_ born in Brooklyn, he had an Eastern lifestyle to live up to. ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-billy-the-kid-photo-authenticated-insured-for-5-million/734557/42 "2015-10-19T14:29:23Z")
Anyone else catch the National Geographic special last night? I’ve watched about 3/4 of it so far. It was a little too stylized for my liking and I could have done without the reenactments. I wondered if some of the present-day footage was reenacted too. It seemed like Randy Guijarro expected everyone to immediately say, “Yep, that’s Billy the Kid!” So I was grateful when some of the experts were skeptical and forced him to establish some kind of provenance for the photo. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-billy-the-kid-photo-authenticated-insured-for-5-million/734557/43 "2015-10-19T14:37:07Z")
Ooof, I forgot it as I suspected I might, too much going on wrapping up the weekend and SNFootball, but I did record it so I’ll watch tonite. Thanks for the reminder and comments. I was skeptical reading the article about who’s qualified to make pronouncemenst as to its authenticity so I too will be paying added attention to that part. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-billy-the-kid-photo-authenticated-insured-for-5-million/734557/44 "2015-10-19T14:49:43Z")
I watched. They left out an important bit of history. The regulators were deputized by constable Richard M. Brewer and Deputy US Marshal Robert A. Widenmann. Legally empowered to hunt down the killers of their boss and friend John Tunstall. Sheriff Brady arrested them and after that they began breaking the law. It was as much a political struggle as a physical war. There was wanton and senseless killing on both sides. Both sides taking the law into their own hands. Seeing this group of Regulators with Billy is quite incredible. Especially since several men in that photo were dead within two years. Fascinating bit of history. Wikipedia has a very good summary. But to really understand it requires more reading. I keep trying to find the time. > **[Lincoln County War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_County_War)** > > The Lincoln County War was an Old West conflict between rival factions which began in 1878 in Lincoln County, New Mexico Territory, the predecessor of the state of New Mexico, and continued until 1881. The feud became famous because of the participation of William H. Bonney ("Billy the Kid"). Other notable participants included Sheriff William J. Brady, cattle rancher John Chisum, lawyer and businessmen Alexander McSween, James Dolan and Lawrence Murphy. > The conflict began between two factions c... > [@](#): > > The Regulators set out to apprehend the sheriff’s posse members who had murdered Tunstall. After the Regulators were deputized by the Lincoln County justice of the peace, together with Constable Martinez, they attempted to serve the legally issued warrants on Tunstall’s murderers. Sheriff Brady arrested and jailed Martinez and his deputies in defiance of their deputized status. They gained release and searched for Tunstall’s murderers. They found Buck Morton, Dick Lloyd, and Frank Baker near the Rio Peñasco. Morton surrendered after a five-mile (8 km) running gunfight on the condition that he and his fellow deputy sheriff, Frank Baker,[10] would be returned alive to Lincoln. The Regulators’ captain Dick Brewer assured them they would be taken to Lincoln, but other Regulators insisted on killing the prisoners. William McCloskey, also a friend of Morton, resisted such action. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-billy-the-kid-photo-authenticated-insured-for-5-million/734557/45 "2015-10-19T15:01:59Z")
I was getting shades of Al Capone’s vaults when it was getting down to the end and he still didn’t have anyone that would authenticate it. I didn’t understand the tag at the end when it said Randy was looking for a buyer when, just before that, it showed him turning the tintype over to Kagin. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-billy-the-kid-photo-authenticated-insured-for-5-million/734557/46 "2015-10-19T15:06:13Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > What would such a sweater (?) be called? If you mean a woollen jumper that buttons up at the front, it’s a [cardigan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardigan_%28sweater%29). If you mean that exact design with the stripes and all, I doubt it has a specific name, it’s not a style that I recognise as common (and I’m pretty well versed in Victorian menswear). ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-billy-the-kid-photo-authenticated-insured-for-5-million/734557/47 "2015-10-19T15:50:50Z")
One thing I didn’t understand. Did they say towards the end he was wearing\* the same sweater\* or _a sweater_ in both pictures? A Big difference. I’m not seeing it. that outer garment is a sweater? The same sweater? Or a different one? [![](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_the_Kid#/media/File:Billy_the_Kid_corrected.jpg) ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_the_Kid#/media/File:Billy_the_Kid_corrected.jpg) sure looks different to me. I have each photo loaded in a tab. switching back and forth. [https://kagins.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/BTKdetail.jpg](https://kagins.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/BTKdetail.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-billy-the-kid-photo-authenticated-insured-for-5-million/734557/48 "2015-10-19T17:36:38Z")
I think maybe that’s frame from a Hal Roach comedy. Look at that blown-up picture and tell me that that isn’t Carl ‘Alfalfa’ Switzer. ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-billy-the-kid-photo-authenticated-insured-for-5-million/734557/49 "2015-10-20T00:09:55Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#): > > I didn’t understand the tag at the end when it said Randy was looking for a buyer when, just before that, it showed him turning the tintype over to Kagin. Presumably Guijarro is still the official owner of the photo until it sells. I think Kagin is like an intermediary who authenticates and helps negotiate the sale. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-billy-the-kid-photo-authenticated-insured-for-5-million/734557/50 "2015-10-21T15:43:17Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > One thing I didn’t understand. Did they say towards the end he was wearing\* the same sweater\* or _a sweater_ in both pictures? A Big difference. It’s not the same sweater. The previously-known photograph shows a curved, horizontally-orientated stripe on Billy’s stomach. The sweater in the new photograph shows a sweater with vertical stripes. But the ‘croquet’ photo was taken in 1878, and the posed photo was taken in 1880. A lot can happen to outerwear in two years. We watched the show last night. Very interesting and convincing. But the manufactured drama of the ‘investigation’ footage was a bit much, and they could have trimmed the film by half. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Rhosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-billy-the-kid-photo-authenticated-insured-for-5-million/734557/51 "2015-10-25T05:59:33Z")
The famous photo of BtK actually shows him wearing a shirt (with what is guessed to be some type of nautical design), over which he wears a vest, and over that a heavy sweater. Sir Rhosis EDIT: Here is a somewhat garish colorized version of the picture (flopped the original and incorrect way). [http://tesla.liketelevision.com/liketelevision/images/lowrez/william\_bonney\_800.jpg](http://tesla.liketelevision.com/liketelevision/images/lowrez/william_bonney_800.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Rhosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-billy-the-kid-photo-authenticated-insured-for-5-million/734557/52 "2015-10-25T06:06:37Z")
A set of photos showing the original reversed image, a corrected B/W cleaned up copy, and a less garishly colored, correctly oriented copy. [![](http://photo-renovations.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/BillyTheKid-before-after-colour.png) ](http://photo-renovations.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/BillyTheKid-before-after-colour.png) ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-billy-the-kid-photo-authenticated-insured-for-5-million/734557/53 "2015-10-25T11:30:52Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > I never imagined Billy playing croquet, or wearing such stylish apparel. What would such a sweater (?) be called? The clothes we associate as cowboys clothes, are not what they actually worn back then. Back in the day they wore “Bowler” style hats, not what we associate as cowboy hats today. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-billy-the-kid-photo-authenticated-insured-for-5-million/734557.md?page=2)