# New book by Jay Paterno **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 31, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-jay-paterno/697090 "2014-08-31T23:26:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-jay-paterno/697090/21 "2014-09-01T04:08:22Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > 5-8 were NEVER supposed to become public, mostly because they poison the jury pool. What the fuck does the jury pool have to do with anything? Joe Paterno wasn’t charged with a crime and was never put on trial. So why does it matter if they became public? And #7 is supposed to be a good thing about Paterno, so why is it bad if it became public? > [@](#): > > Joe did not witness a crime No one ever said he witnessed a crime. Ever, ever, ever. At no point did anyone say he saw anything in person. I don’t know why you think that’s new information. The question is whether he knew about the rapes and whether he tried to do anything about them. There was never a question of whether or not he was personally a witness. That’s why this point doesn’t matter. I don’t know who “the witness” is supposed to be in point #4. I think it’s that redheaded ex-coach, and the way I remember it, it comes down to how exactly he described an act of abuse he either saw or overheard. What exactly he said, saw, and did is probably unknowable because he contradicted himself several times. That the Penn State football program was all kinds of fucked up is beyond dispute. My guess is that that’s why you’re not disputing it. > [@etv78](#): > > Marley: if someone you loved had their name slandered, you wouldn’t do everything in your power to fight back? Maybe I would. Like I said, I do feel bad for the guy. I still think he’s an ass for trying to have this fight in public. It’s insensitive to the actual victims in this story. The reputation of a football coach really doesn’t mean shit; Paterno may have been a good coach and a good mentor but he never deserved the Holy Man bullshit that came to surround him over the years. It’s not his fault that we make heroes out of people based on their public images, but I think it is his fault that he embraced it and promoted it. And his saintly reputation arguably contributed to what happened at the school. Nobody wanted to mess with the coach or the program. > [@](#): > > Do you actually believe the family worked side by side with investigators they hired? I think the investigators they paid did what they were paid to do. That’s how that works. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-jay-paterno/697090/22 "2014-09-01T04:30:02Z")
So yes, you DO believe the family influenced the investigation? The reason I brought up the Joe committed no crime is because the narrative that emerged doesn’t reflect that. You seem hellbent on convicting Joe from beyond the grave. One last thing: Joe freely acknowledged he screwed up, should’ve done more. Unsure anyone else did. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-jay-paterno/697090/23 "2014-09-01T04:39:04Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > So yes, you DO believe the family influenced the investigation? The investigation they started and funded specifically to counter the Freeh investigation? I’ll go out on a limb and say they influenced it. The correct word would be “sponsored,” or you could say “bought and paid for,” or “bankrolled as part of a desperate attempt to whitewash a more credible and objective investigation,” or… well, you get the idea. > [@](#): > > The reason I brought up the Joe committed no crime is because the narrative that emerged doesn’t reflect that. I think the narrative generally reflects what happened. To that end I’ll correct your wording: he was never accused of committing a crime. Whether he did commit one - or whether he did something morally wrong even if he didn’t break the law - is a different dispute. And if the question is whether or not he did something wrong, the legal answer isn’t the whole answer. > [@](#): > > You seem hellbent on convicting Joe from beyond the grave. Hellbent? You started a thread based on Jay Paterno’s self-serving book and you’re defending it to the hilt, sometimes by making points that nobody ever argued against in the first place or by making statements that don’t have much bearing on anyone’s opinion. My view is that no matter what, he doesn’t come off looking very good. I don’t think that’s unreasonable. And I don’t know what it means to convict someone from beyond the grave. _He’s_ the one beyond the grave, actually. I haven’t proposed any punishment for him or said he broke the law. I’ve said that in the big picture, he played a major role in what went wrong at PSU and that there is no way to make him look good in all this and I don’t think it can be proved what his exact level of responsibility was, so the hit to his reputation is fair overall. > [@](#): > > One last thing: Joe freely acknowledged he screwed up, should’ve done more. No shit he screwed up. Everybody knew he screwed up and said so, so I can’t give him a whole lot of points for admitting the obvious. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-jay-paterno/697090/24 "2014-09-01T13:04:08Z")
Since the OP seems more interested in debating Paterno Sr’s culpability than Paterno Jr’s book, moved from Cafe Society to Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-jay-paterno/697090/25 "2014-09-01T13:59:27Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Marley: I’m probably the ONLY American poster on this board who doesn’t DEIFY the basketball and/or football coach at my favorite school/flagship home campus. I can guarantee you that you’re not the only American poster here who thinks the glory given to college sports, especially football, is a total crock. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-jay-paterno/697090/26 "2014-09-01T14:26:22Z")
I can go one further. I don’t even _know_ who the basketball or football coaches were in my colleges, and my high school didn’t even have a team. ETA: but about half the coaches I did know growing up were blowhard jerks. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-jay-paterno/697090/27 "2014-09-01T14:39:36Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I can guarantee you that you’re not the only American poster here who thinks the glory given to college sports, especially football, is a total crock. Seconded. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-jay-paterno/697090/28 "2014-09-01T14:42:05Z")
For future reference - the legendary pit thread: [**It’s time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=630580) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-jay-paterno/697090/29 "2014-09-01T14:53:29Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Marley: I’m probably the ONLY American poster on this board who doesn’t DEIFY the basketball and/or football coach at my favorite school/flagship home campus. Not by a long shot. I am a casual sports fan and I don’t know the name of the coach at my favorite team off the top of my head and even in my younger years where I was a fairly rabid sports fan, I didn’t even admire the head coach let alone deify him. What an incredibly ignorant thing to say. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-jay-paterno/697090/30 "2014-09-01T20:57:02Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > For future reference - the legendary pit thread: > > [**It’s time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=630580) Ugh. Every time I throw away an empty cardboard tube, I think of that thread. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-jay-paterno/697090/31 "2014-09-01T23:41:41Z")
Everything that is good and bad about the Dope is on full display in that thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-jay-paterno/697090/32 "2014-09-02T01:21:21Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Ugh. Every time I throw away an empty cardboard tube, I think of that thread. Oh Fuck, did you have to remind me!😉 ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-jay-paterno/697090/33 "2014-09-02T02:14:30Z")
Can we please let the cardboard tube thing die. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-jay-paterno/697090/34 "2014-09-02T03:06:27Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > One last thing: Joe freely acknowledged he screwed up, should’ve done more. Unsure anyone else did. Okay. And therefore, he deserves a spotless reputation? I mean, by your words, he admitted to screwing up in a situation that resulted in the rape of multiple children. But that shouldn’t impact his reputation because…? Or maybe his reputation\* took exactly the hit it deserved. - Reputation. Not his freedom, not his innocence (or guilt) of any crime. Just his reputation. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-jay-paterno/697090/35 "2014-09-02T03:32:19Z")
Jay and Sue Paterno need to have Joe’s reputation restored because they don’t have anything else. They are entirely dependent on Penn State, and Jay, in particular, has traded on his father’s name and reputation for so long that he cannot possibly be his own man. He’s tainted and he knows it; any defense of his father is a self-serving attempt to salvage his own identity. Anything else about this horrible, sordid affair doesn’t matter here. It’s just Jay doing the only thing Jay knows how to do: milk his last name for all he can. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-jay-paterno/697090/36 "2014-09-02T04:11:03Z")
I’m waiting for the movie. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-jay-paterno/697090/37 "2014-09-02T11:27:17Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > Jay and Sue Paterno need to have Joe’s reputation restored because they don’t have anything else. They are entirely dependent on Penn State, and Jay, in particular, has traded on his father’s name and reputation for so long that he cannot possibly be his own man. He’s tainted and he knows it; any defense of his father is a self-serving attempt to salvage his own identity. Anything else about this horrible, sordid affair doesn’t matter here. It’s just Jay doing the only thing Jay knows how to do: milk his last name for all he can. Absolutely. If you haven’t done so, have a look at the news article I linked upthread. It talks about his (wholly specious) lawsuit against PSU, and agrees with your assessment pretty much 100%. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-jay-paterno/697090/38 "2014-09-02T13:03:12Z")
I know this is a painful request, but I don’t have time to go through 6,500+(!!!) posts. In two sentences or less - the cardboard tube?? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-jay-paterno/697090/39 "2014-09-02T13:27:24Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > Jay and Sue Paterno need to have Joe’s reputation restored because they don’t have anything else. They are entirely dependent on Penn State, and Jay, in particular, has traded on his father’s name and reputation for so long that he cannot possibly be his own man. He’s tainted and he knows it; any defense of his father is a self-serving attempt to salvage his own identity. Anything else about this horrible, sordid affair doesn’t matter here. It’s just Jay doing the only thing Jay knows how to do: milk his last name for all he can. One has to pity - not sympathize with, but pity - Jay Paterno. Frankly, the guy was doomed. He was raised in a family where football was everything, living in a place where football was everything, where his father was basically the God of football, to the point that people turned a blind eye to child rape to keep the football going, and even when they could not, tried to play down the child rape because football football football. He was raised in, breathed the air of, a situation that looked fine most of his life but turned out to be toxic and horrible. He’s a product of all that. Is it any wonder he is but a pathetic shadow of his father? Can any of us say for sure that raised in the same situation we wouldn’t be like Jay Paterno? What does he have except a gianty vulture of history sitting on his shoulders? He isn’t very bright - if you read anything he writes, you realize he would not excel in a high school writing class. He knows little aside from what his father did for a living. He either rehabilitates his father’s name, and thus his own, or he has to go work in a Best Buy, and I’m not sure he’s ever held an actual job. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-jay-paterno/697090/40 "2014-09-02T13:45:04Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > I know this is a painful request, but I don’t have time to go through 6,500+(!!!) posts. > > In two sentences or less - the cardboard tube?? A poster suggested that it was physically impossible for a grown man the height of Sandusky to rape a pre-adolescent boy while standing, and suggested that this can be “proven” by placing a cardboard tube at the height of a pre-adolescent boy’s special place, and trying to, well… you get the picture. It didn’t go well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-jay-paterno/697090.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-jay-paterno/697090.md?page=3)