# New book by two Dopers - the truth about vaccines **URL:** \ **Category:** Marketplace\ **Created:** [August 16, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-two-dopers-the-truth-about-vaccines/631631 "2012-08-16T00:43:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4bbf92/32.png) [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heart_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-two-dopers-the-truth-about-vaccines/631631/61 "2012-08-22T14:46:23Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Nice review of the book on the Parents Magazine website Awesome. What bugs me about that review, though, is that she then says: [QUOTE=Kristen Kemp, Parents] This book is not for parents who agree with Jenny McCarthy. [/QUOTE] I think that’s _exactly_ who this book is for, along with people who are uninformed or on the fence. People like me who are already pro-vaccine might well enjoy the book, but it’s kind of preaching to the choir. I wish she would have said something like, “Parents who agree with Jenny McCarthy (that there is a link between vaccines and autism) will find a wealth of information in this book that challenges those ideas.” ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-two-dopers-the-truth-about-vaccines/631631/62 "2012-08-22T15:00:38Z")
The problem is that, in my experience, people do not come to the conclusion that vaccines cause autism through logic and reason and therefore, logic and reason have little to no effect on their opinions. Do you know what Wakefield’s study was about? He hypothesized that the MMR vaccine was causing gastrointestinal problems in children and that was what was causing the autism symptoms. Now, there’s nothing to support this view in his study and later studies found a similar lack of evidence. So what happened? The anti-vaxxers transferred their fear to thimerosal and since vaccines have been thimerosal-free for many years, they find other chemicals to fear or simply state that there’s not enough info to come to an informed decision, despite the wealth of evidence on the CDC’s side. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-two-dopers-the-truth-about-vaccines/631631/63 "2012-08-22T16:13:08Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > My kid is autistic. Diagnosed etc. Unmistakably. Yet if you see him on playground, you will see him interacting (somewhat) with other kids, running over to me and talking with me (you’d have to stand close to hear the speech problems such as mixing pronouns and formulaic speech). Ditto - it’s definitely a broad spectrum of symptoms, and RyJae’s daughter is more severely impaired than my son (or yours). Whether it’s truly growing, or better / more accurate diagnosis, or whatever, is hard to say; I haven’t done the research. I do know that my own family is pretty hard hit (4 out of 6 biological cousins have significant issues, 2 of them autism). For Kolga and LavenderBlue: In your research, have you stumbled across _any_ health issues that seem to be tied to vaccination? By that I mean things that appear to have an autoimmune tie (e.g. the increase in allergies, any other disorders). We never subscribed to the whole Wakefield thing, but kept an open mind about a possible autoimmune component, mainly because my nephew’s symptoms _seemed_ to improve somewhat when he was on high-dose steroids for a while. So, my kids have been fully vaccinated, but we _did_ take a slower approach than the official plan (e.g. never more than 2 at a time, waited longer than average between 'em, never got a new vaccine within a year or two of its being introduced etc.). In our judgment, this posed minimal additional risk while ultimately offering acceptable protection. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-two-dopers-the-truth-about-vaccines/631631/64 "2012-08-22T17:27:33Z")
> [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Awesome. What bugs me about that review, though, is that she then says: > I think that’s _exactly_ who this book is for, along with people who are uninformed or on the fence. People like me who are already pro-vaccine might well enjoy the book, but it’s kind of preaching to the choir. I wish she would have said something like, “Parents who agree with Jenny McCarthy (that there is a link between vaccines and autism) will find a wealth of information in this book that challenges those ideas.” I agree. We were aiming for two kinds of parents: those who don’t know much about this subject and those who do. We wanted to provide the latter with the means to help combat the nutters. Both of us have spent hours and hours and hours arguing about this issue on various message boards. We approached the book from the POV of what the hell are the anti-vaccine arguments and how can we show they’re wrong. Many people who are pro-vaccine can find themselves confronted by anti-vaxxers and find themselves unsure about how to respond to their arguments. We wanted to help provide people with the tools to confront them effectively. **Inner Stickler** , We’re not aiming for the true believers. I have and so has Allison. At one point I spent three days of my time at the anti-vax forum over at the now defunct **Mothering Magazine** boards. The boards still exist unforunately but the magazine has stop publication. I got one thank you note from an on the fencer and approximately fifty allegations of pHARMAshill, baby killing, crazy liar. I try not to poke my toes in the crazy unless I have absolutely have to. **Mama Zappa** , We did not see any autoimmune links from vaccines. We found no [evidence](http://blogs.webmd.com/child-health-411/2010/05/no-benefit-in-delaying-vaccines-only-risk.html) of a decrease in side effects from spacing out or delaying vaccines. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-two-dopers-the-truth-about-vaccines/631631/65 "2012-08-22T18:44:47Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > … > I try not to poke my toes in the crazy unless I have absolutely have to. Heh - yeah, that can NOT have been pleasant. > [@](#): > > **Mama Zappa** , > > We did not see any autoimmune links from vaccines. We found no [evidence](http://blogs.webmd.com/child-health-411/2010/05/no-benefit-in-delaying-vaccines-only-risk.html) of a decrease in side effects from spacing out or delaying vaccines. Thanks - I’ll read up on that later. In our situation (this was mostly 10-15 years ago), we had to try to juggle the whole disease-prevention thing and the family concerns, and come up with a compromise. Plus I just thought it was _mean_ when they tried to jab my kid 3 times in a single visit 😉 (I brought her back for the 3rd one a month or so later). ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-two-dopers-the-truth-about-vaccines/631631/66 "2012-08-22T19:16:47Z")
**Mama Zappa** , I understand. I hate needles myself. The only thing that got us through the shots was nursing. My girls love to nurse so I let them when being jabbed. Scientists are working on needless shots right now: > **[Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos](https://www.yahoo.com/)** > > Latest news coverage, email, free stock quotes, live scores and video are just the beginning. Discover more every day at Yahoo! Maybe one day our grandkids will be able to get shots without needles. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-two-dopers-the-truth-about-vaccines/631631/67 "2012-08-22T20:17:51Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Scientists are working on needless shots right now: Arrgh! _Needleless!_ ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-two-dopers-the-truth-about-vaccines/631631/68 "2012-08-22T20:30:20Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Arrgh! _Needleless!_ You don’t want to know how I spelled Hippocrates in the rough draft. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-two-dopers-the-truth-about-vaccines/631631/69 "2012-08-23T13:13:04Z")
I just read this since I almost never go into this section. Awesome work guys! You should be interviewed on Skeptic’s Guide to the Universe podcast or something. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-two-dopers-the-truth-about-vaccines/631631/70 "2012-08-23T13:24:40Z")
Marvelous. Add me to the list of parents with autistic children who will be eagerly digesting this book. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-two-dopers-the-truth-about-vaccines/631631/71 "2012-08-24T15:35:38Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > The problem is that, in my experience, people do not come to the conclusion that vaccines cause autism through logic and reason and therefore, logic and reason have little to no effect on their opinions. Do you know what Wakefield’s study was about? He hypothesized that the MMR vaccine was causing gastrointestinal problems in children and that was what was causing the autism symptoms. Now, there’s nothing to support this view in his study and later studies found a similar lack of evidence. So what happened? The anti-vaxxers transferred their fear to thimerosal and since vaccines have been thimerosal-free for many years, they find other chemicals to fear or simply state that there’s not enough info to come to an informed decision, despite the wealth of evidence on the CDC’s side. Had a discussion with my anti-vax sister the other day. Pointed out that vaccinations have helped reduce diseases once common, she replies “Polio was already on its way out when the vaccine was developed” I walked out and slammed the door. Later on when I cooled down we talked more. She tries and makes peace by saying “we’ll never really know” which made me even madder as I tried to explain that yes, we will know, because we can look at statistics of people who did and did not get vaccines of various types. The concept seemed to escape her: her thought was that if a kid develops autism after a vaccination it may have been caused by that, even if the statistics over a large population do not support it. Absolutely pointless to argue, she can go to dozens of web sites supporting her view and any that disagree with her are just part of the pharma conspiracy. The only thing that gave her slight pause was when I pointed out that Wakefield was working for a pharma company himself trying to push an alternate vaccine. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-two-dopers-the-truth-about-vaccines/631631/72 "2012-08-24T22:02:45Z")
I just found this thread and even though you are preaching to the choir here, I too will purchase the book. Congratualtions. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-two-dopers-the-truth-about-vaccines/631631/73 "2012-08-27T15:46:42Z")
Thanks again for all the support and all of the kind words, guys! > [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > You should be interviewed on Skeptic’s Guide to the Universe podcast or something. We have a Skype interview set up for the “Skeptically Speaking” podcast on September 23. I don’t know what the air date is, but we’ll keep you posted 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-two-dopers-the-truth-about-vaccines/631631/74 "2012-09-05T01:57:10Z")
I’ll be at the [Words Bookstore](http://wordsbookstore.com/) in Maplewood, NJ for a book signing and q and a session on October 21st at 2 p.m. The independent book store aims to help employees and patrons with autism. I’m both excited and a little scared. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-two-dopers-the-truth-about-vaccines/631631/75 "2012-09-06T18:47:27Z")
Thanks so much for writing this book! Mrs Piper has already posted a link to her Facebook page for her mommy friends to see. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-two-dopers-the-truth-about-vaccines/631631/76 "2012-09-06T21:09:57Z")
[Lovely](http://autismum.com/2012/09/05/your-babys-best-shot/) review of the book from a blogger who writes about her son’s autism. I think one of the very worst things the anti-vax nuts do is try and make parents who vax feel guilty if their child winds up autistic. I have seen quite a bit of cruelty directed towards mothers of children with autism who don’t tow the vacccines equal autism line. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-two-dopers-the-truth-about-vaccines/631631/77 "2012-09-06T21:45:35Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > [Lovely](http://autismum.com/2012/09/05/your-babys-best-shot/) review of the book from a blogger who writes about her son’s autism. I think one of the very worst things the anti-vax nuts do is try and make parents who vax feel guilty if their child winds up autistic. I have seen quite a bit of cruelty directed towards mothers of children with autism who don’t tow the vacccines equal autism line. Autismum is a great blogger - congrats on getting a review from her (P.S. “toe the line”) ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-two-dopers-the-truth-about-vaccines/631631/78 "2012-09-06T22:04:23Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Autismum is a great blogger - congrats on getting a review from her > > (P.S. “toe the line”) Thank you. I need to stop posting on the days when Youngest is getting up three times a night. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-two-dopers-the-truth-about-vaccines/631631/79 "2012-09-08T17:02:08Z")
Posted to my Facebook page as well. Most of my friends have kids who are older, but there are friends of friends and all that. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-two-dopers-the-truth-about-vaccines/631631/80 "2012-09-08T17:41:05Z")
> [@lorene](#): > > Posted to my Facebook page as well. > Most of my friends have kids who are older, but there are friends of friends and all that. Within 20 minutes a friend of mine posted that she is buying herself a copy and one to lend! Yay! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-two-dopers-the-truth-about-vaccines/631631.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-book-by-two-dopers-the-truth-about-vaccines/631631.md?page=5)