# New Coke **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2001, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-coke/63928 "2001-05-01T04:51:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Philosophocles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Philosophocles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philosophocles)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2001, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-coke/63928/1 "2001-05-01T04:51:27Z")
Was “New Coke” really a flop, or was it one of the most clever marketing ploys ever? Consider the following piece that I found at some Max Headroom site: "The New Coke campaign of the early 80’s was considered one of the biggest marketing failures ever. Well, perhaps not. It may have been one of the most brilliant and immoral marketing strategies in history. Just look on any can of Coke. In the 1980’s when Bill Cosby declared that Coke would change it’s formula, was it just a huge scam to save Coke money? Maybe the Coca-Cola corporation never really cared if consumers bought into the New Coke fad or not. Some say what they wanted was to release a substitute Coke product with a noticeably different taste. That they kept the New Coke on the market until all of the old Coke was sold and people couldn’t buy it anymore. Eventually, Coca-Cola claimed (quite rightly) that people missed old Coke and demanded it’s return. As a consequence, Coke vowed to re-release the original Coke as Coke Classic. They never did. What they did do was bring back the original recipe, but with (significantly cheaper) corn syrup instead of sugar. Everyone would have noticed if they had just made the switch directly. Coke would have been forced to return to the original, more expensive, product. But since Classic Coke tasted passably similar to old Coke, people just assumed it was the same, since no one had had any in so long. So now you can only get original Coke in the US on Passover (look for Kosher for Passover Coke from about mid March, it will either say KP, or just look for Hebrew letters). Since corn is not kosher for Passover, they release the true original formula with sugar. In Europe and Mexico, Coke is still made with real sugar." Perhaps just a Max Headroom fan trying to rationalize? Or maybe Max truly was at the vanguard of American consumerism? ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2001, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-coke/63928/2 "2001-05-01T05:21:14Z")
I may be wrong, but I seem to recall Old Coke and other soft drinks being made with corn syrup long before then. There’s a town near here which sells Dr. Pepper made with real sugar. I know people who will drive an hour and a half to get some. I can barely tell the difference. ---
**Author:** ![headshok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@headshok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/headshok)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2001, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-coke/63928/3 "2001-05-01T05:57:34Z")
According to Snopes, [New Coke](http://www.snopes2.com/cokelore/newcoke.htm) was not a clever marketing ploy, and Coke had already begun the switch to corn syrup long before New Coke was introduced. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2001, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-coke/63928/4 "2001-05-01T20:14:18Z")
The Snopes page didn’t have my _favorite_ rumor about New Coke: After the partial core meltdown at the Three Mile Island nuclear power plant, there was great concern over the radioactive water produced by the event. But after New Coke hit the stores, you never heard anything about radioactive water from Three Mile Island anymore. _Now we know what New Coke was flavored with!!_ (And why did a famous Washington restaurant first introduce “Chicken Kiev” after those people fried in the Chernobyl disaster? Hmmm? :eek: ) ---
**Author:** ![Grok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Grok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grok)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2001, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-coke/63928/5 "2001-05-01T21:20:46Z")
> [@](#): > > There’s a town near here which sells Dr. Pepper made with real sugar. I know people who will drive an hour and a half to get some. I can barely tell the difference. \*\* Please tell me you live near New York… ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2001, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-coke/63928/6 "2001-05-01T21:38:55Z")
Wasn’t “New Coke” renamed as “crack”? Or are we talking about different cokes? ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2001, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-coke/63928/7 "2001-05-02T03:45:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Grok \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > There’s a town near here which sells Dr. Pepper made with real sugar. I know people who will drive an hour and a half to get some. I can barely tell the difference. \*\* > > Please tell me you live near New York… \*\* Sorry, Richardson, TX (a suburb of Dallas). The town is Dublin, TX. You should be able to find it in NY, though, esp. around Passover. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2001, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-coke/63928/8 "2001-05-02T17:07:06Z")
Blame Archer Daniels Midland and their intense lobbying to increase the taxes on imported sugar. As a result, sugar, which is quite a bit cheaper on the world market than it is in the US, costs more than the corn syrup ADM produces. Food companies, of course, go with whatever’s cheapest. Were it not for ADM, we’d all be savoring the sharp, clean taste of soft drinks made with real sugar rather than coagulated corn phlegm. ---
**Author:** ![krong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a88e4f/32.png) [@krong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/krong)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2001, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-coke/63928/9 "2001-05-02T18:29:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Philosophocles \* > \*\* > Since corn is not kosher for Passover, they release the true original formula with sugar. \*\* Why isn’t corn kosher for passover? And isn’t anything that’s kosher kosher all the time? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2001, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-coke/63928/10 "2001-05-02T21:42:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by krong \* > \*\*Why isn’t corn kosher for passover? > > And isn’t anything that’s kosher kosher all the time? \*\* I found the answer [here](http://www.jewmich.com/askthe.htm). Turns out, there’s a difference between “kosher” and “kosher for Passover”: > [@](#): > > Q. Why are Sefardic Jews allowed to eat Rice on Passover? > A. The question is the other way around: Why can’t Ashkenasic Jews (of European descent) eat Rice, which is not included in the Torah or Talmud’s definition of Chametz? The answer to that is, \*\*European Rabbis of more than a millenium ago, unanimously added Rice (beans, and corn) to the list of (Rabbinically) forbidden foods on Passover, because they too can be ground up as a flour and made into bread \*\*(we consumers of ready made processed foods may not realize the concern). The Rabbis of the Sefardic communities (Mediteranean lands) never adopted this Rabbinic decree, so it never became their tradition. > > Q. Why does Coke need to be Kosher for Pesach, is there leaven in there? > A. All kosher foods, especially for Passover require reliable kosher certification, due to a multitude of reasons including flavors, additives and equipment. Reading the label is never enough. But Coke has a different problem. All year long Coke uses Corn Syrup and/or Sugar. Corn Syrup is not permitted for Jews of Ashkenasic descent (see above question). So for Passover, Coke specifically substitutes all the Corn Syrup with regular Cane Sugar. I can’t tell the difference, but Coke mavens will assure you that the Kosher for Passover runs of Coke taste sweeter. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-coke/63928/11 "2001-05-03T19:43:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Max Torque \* > \*\*Blame Archer Daniels Midland and their intense lobbying to increase the taxes on imported sugar. As a result, sugar, which is quite a bit cheaper on the world market than it is in the US, costs more than the corn syrup ADM produces. Food companies, of course, go with whatever’s cheapest. Were it not for ADM, we’d all be savoring the sharp, clean taste of soft drinks made with real sugar rather than coagulated corn phlegm. \*\* But look on the bright side! “Coagulated corn phelgm,” according to [http://www.orst.edu/food-resource/sugar/hfcs.html](http://www.orst.edu/food-resource/sugar/hfcs.html), breaks down as follows:[ul][li]14% fructose[/li][li]43% dextrose[/li][li]31% disaccharides[/li][li]12% other[/ul]… whereas “real sugar” breaks down like this:[ul]100% disaccharides[/ul][/li]Just think of all the extra monosaccharides you’re getting by drinking corn-syrup-sweetened Coke! Not to mention all that “other” you’re getting! Mmmmm… ---
**Author:** ![SunSawed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@SunSawed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunSawed)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2001, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-coke/63928/12 "2001-05-13T08:21:58Z")
Wise observation! I noticed in Mexico and Italy how much better the Coke was. There is an intense sugar lobby in the United States which virtually bars the import of any foreign sugar. When they were drafting NAFTA there were intense last minute negotiations that upheld the foreign sugar ban while virtually every other product had to face competition. The ban depresses the economies of Mexico and the West Indies. A lift of the sugar ban would greatly benefit the hemisphere. West Indies economy’s are now tied to tourism which is treatened by the crime and blight that exist because no other segment of the economy can flourish. It is ironic that we are willing to spend millions to put troops in Haiti and try to get democracy to flourish there and at the same time we refuse their main export, hurting the consumer at home and forcing American companies like Coca-Cola to prostrate to ADM. Of course corn farmers have had their voice in Washington as well, producing a glut of Federally subsidized corn syrup which ends up in way to many products. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2001, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-coke/63928/13 "2001-05-14T19:16:11Z")
So cut your Coke with a teaspoon of sugar. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2001, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-coke/63928/14 "2001-05-14T19:40:51Z")
So cut your Coke with a teaspoon of sugar. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2001, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-coke/63928/15 "2001-05-14T21:56:08Z")
It wouldn’t be so bad if “High Fructose” Corn Syrup really did derive most of its sweetening power from fructose, like its name implies. As you can tell from that little list I posted a couple messages back, the plurailty of sugars in “High-Fructose” Corn Syrup (affectionately nicknamed “coagulated corn phlegm”) are dextrose, with disaccharides [sucrose] coming in a close second. High-Fructose Corn Syrup is only considered “high fructose” in relation to normal corn syrup, which I guess is practically fructose-free or something. Fructose doesn’t go straight into the blood the way glucose [dextrose] does. Glucose, when absorbed, becomes “blood sugar” almost immediately, but fructose has to make a pit stop at the liver to get turned into glucose and so raises your blood sugar level much more slowly. Each disaccharide sucrose molecule quickly breaks down into a fructose molecule and a glucose molecule, the latter of which is, of course, instant blood sugar. Some people have gone so far as to say that switching the primary sugar in the American diet from sucrose to fructose would drastically reduce the number of Type II Diabetes cases, but the evidence for that is still spotty. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2001, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-coke/63928/16 "2001-05-15T06:18:55Z")
High fructose corn sweetener is dozens of times sweeter than regular cane sugar. Without sugar to provide texture and mouthfeel, liquids are thickened with ester of wood rosin and brominated vegetable oils. It is one of many reasons that modern soft drinks taste like chilled dishwater. Try any of the new **Boyland** sodas or the superb Aussie **Bundaberg** lemon lime bitters. The Italian **Pellegrino** sparklers are quite good too. According to legend, the reason that Coca Cola introduced the New Coke recipe was to eliminate the most expensive ingredient, the Madagascar vanilla bean pods. They switched to an inferior grade in a phyrric attempt to save a few pennies. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2001, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-coke/63928/17 "2001-05-15T15:39:23Z")
Wait a minute … I thought all the flavoring ingredients in Coca-Cola were supposed to be a closely-guarded secret. Zenster, how do you know that Coca-Cola in fact **has** Madagascar vanilla bean pods in it? ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2001, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-coke/63928/18 "2001-05-17T00:39:03Z")
Tracer, It’s not the ingredients per say, it’s the proportions of each and how they are mixed and processed.