# New Congresscritter calls for end to war; Pubs boo and walk out **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 11, 2008, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-congresscritter-calls-for-end-to-war-pubs-boo-and-walk-out/444914 "2008-04-11T16:52:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-congresscritter-calls-for-end-to-war-pubs-boo-and-walk-out/444914/1 "2008-04-11T16:52:24Z")
In her [maiden speech](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/04/10/BARA103CHG.DTL) as the newest member of the HoR, Jackie Speer said: > [@](#): > > “The process to bring the troops home must begin immediately,” Speier told a packed House presided over by Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-San Francisco. “The president wants to stay the course and a man who wants to replace him suggests we could be in Iraq for 100 years. But Madam Speaker, history will not judge us kindly if we sacrifice four generations of Americans because of the folly of one.” > > While Democrats applauded, Republicans began a chorus of low boos. Some Republicans who had congratulated her just moments before, including Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Vista (San Diego County), walked out of the hall in protest. > > Speier’s 13-year-old daughter, Stephanie, who was watching from the House gallery, asked, “Why are they booing my mom?” Why, indeed? Pubs, when did it become unacceptable just to listen to **speeches,** on the **House floor,** that say what you don’t want to hear? If I had known the game is played like that, I would have written my Congresscritter to organize a nationally-televised Dem walkout during each of the last five SOTU addresses. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-congresscritter-calls-for-end-to-war-pubs-boo-and-walk-out/444914/2 "2008-04-11T17:00:39Z")
I’ve always thought the House of Representatives should be more like the parliaments of other countries, where the members are constantly booing, grunting loudly, shouting over one another, chugging beer, and occasionally engaging in brawls. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-congresscritter-calls-for-end-to-war-pubs-boo-and-walk-out/444914/3 "2008-04-11T17:16:37Z")
[QUOTE=friedo] I’ve always thought the House of Representatives should be more like the parliaments of other countries, where the members are constantly booing, grunting loudly, shouting over one another, chugging beer, and occasionally engaging in brawls. [/QUOTE] Me, too. I’d like that. (If both/all sides felt equally free to do it.) But walking out is even less mature behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-congresscritter-calls-for-end-to-war-pubs-boo-and-walk-out/444914/4 "2008-04-11T17:27:47Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Pubs boo and walk out [/QUOTE] I suppose they eventually _came back_? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-congresscritter-calls-for-end-to-war-pubs-boo-and-walk-out/444914/5 "2008-04-11T17:38:33Z")
[QUOTE=friedo] I’ve always thought the House of Representatives should be more like the parliaments of other countries, where the members are constantly booing, grunting loudly, shouting over one another, chugging beer, and occasionally engaging in brawls. [/QUOTE] The Senate used to be a lot more fun: > **[Charles Sumner](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Sumner#Antebellum_career_and_attack_by_Preston_Brooks)** > > Charles Sumner (January 6, 1811 – March 11, 1874) was an American lawyer and statesman who represented Massachusetts in the United States Senate from 1851 until his death in 1874. Before and during the American Civil War, he was a leading American advocate for the abolition of slavery, and after the war he was a key figure in the Reconstruction era, during which he and other Radical Republicans successfully fought to end slavery and ensure basic rights for Black Americans. He continued advocat... ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-congresscritter-calls-for-end-to-war-pubs-boo-and-walk-out/444914/6 "2008-04-11T18:04:22Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Why, indeed? Pubs, when did it become unacceptable just to listen to **speeches,** on the **House floor,** that say what you don’t want to hear? [/QUOTE] I’ll play. Why should the Republicans sit still and listen to a flat-out lie? John McCain never suggested sacrificing four generations of Americans to anything - and Representative Speer knows this. So she is a liar. And while we can argue for years about what Bush knew or didn’t know heading into Iraq (and we have) there is no question at all about what McCain said and meant. I’d walk out as well. I’d boo as well. And if Speer’s daughter needed to be spared this spectacle, then Speer should not have lied. From what I’ve heard about Speer, she’s tough enough to take it, so nobody should be ashamed to dish it out if she earns it. She is an admirable woman in many respects - but that doesn’t insulate her from anything. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-congresscritter-calls-for-end-to-war-pubs-boo-and-walk-out/444914/7 "2008-04-11T18:11:43Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Why should the Republicans sit still and listen to a flat-out lie? John McCain never suggested sacrificing four generations of Americans to anything - and Representative Speer knows this. So she is a liar. And while we can argue for years about what Bush knew or didn’t know heading into Iraq (and we have) there is no question at all about what McCain said and meant. [/QUOTE] So what did McCain say and mean? Did he say that US troops need to stay in Iraq for 100 years or not? And how is it a “lie” to say that means sacrificing four generations of Americans? – Not that McCain would say that, but that that is a reasonable implication of what he has said. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-congresscritter-calls-for-end-to-war-pubs-boo-and-walk-out/444914/8 "2008-04-11T18:13:58Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] I’ll play. Why should the Republicans sit still and listen to a flat-out lie? John McCain never suggested sacrificing four generations of Americans to anything - and Representative Speer knows this. So she is a liar. And while we can argue for years about what Bush knew or didn’t know heading into Iraq (and we have) there is no question at all about what McCain said and meant. [/quote] She said he “suggests we could be there for 100 years.” That is a completely factual statement. It is also factual that 100 years = four generations. McCain absolutely did say that. Calling Speier a “liar” is ridiculous. > [@](#): > > I’d walk out as well. I’d boo as well. And if Speer’s daughter needed to be spared this spectacle, then Speer should not have lied. She didn’t lie, but it’s funny that you’ve only now discovered a capacity to be offended by the thought of elected officials lying. > [@](#): > > From what I’ve heard about Speer, she’s tough enough to take it, so nobody should be ashamed to dish it out if she earns it. She is an admirable woman in many respects - but that doesn’t insulate her from anything. The Pubs who walked out behaved in a petulent, childish manner because somebody else disagreed with them. But I’ve got news for you – 70% of the American people agree with Speier. That’s why the Republicans are going to lose their shirts in November. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-congresscritter-calls-for-end-to-war-pubs-boo-and-walk-out/444914/9 "2008-04-11T18:14:22Z")
Not only did she lie, she did it in front of people she wasn’t going to sway in the first place. Dumb move on her part, IMHO. [QUOTE=BrainGlutton] \If I had known the game is played like that, I would have written my Congresscritter to organize a nationally-televised Dem walkout during each of the last five SOTU addresses. [/QUOTE] Translation: “I think they did something less than mature. Had I known they were going to do it, I would have done the same thing.” :rolleyes: I don’t know why, but this clip seems an appropriate rebuttal to that comment (aside from the whole cliff argument): [TV Shows | Watch Shows Online | Paramount Network - Browse Browse All A-Z](http://spike.com/video/onion-skull-fucking/2889221) ETA: [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] She said he “suggests we could be there for 100 years.” That is absoutely factual statement. It is also factual that 100 years = four generations. You are wrong on the fcats. McCain absolutely DID SAY THAT.\ [/QUOTE] But not in the current state. He was referring to the same way we’re in Japan, Korea, and Germany, where solders aren’t dying every day. I’m strongly opposed to a McCain presidency, but even I realize that. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-congresscritter-calls-for-end-to-war-pubs-boo-and-walk-out/444914/10 "2008-04-11T18:14:46Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] John McCain never suggested sacrificing four generations of Americans to anything - and Representative Speer knows this. So she is a liar. And while we can argue for years about what Bush knew or didn’t know heading into Iraq (and we have) there is no question at all about what McCain said and meant. [/QUOTE] [Washington Post Fact Check on McCain’s 100-Year war comment](http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/04/mccains_100year_war.html) ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-congresscritter-calls-for-end-to-war-pubs-boo-and-walk-out/444914/11 "2008-04-11T18:16:52Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] I’ll play. Why should the Republicans sit still and listen to a flat-out lie? John McCain never suggested sacrificing four generations of Americans to anything - and Representative Speer knows this. So she is a liar. And while we can argue for years about what Bush knew or didn’t know heading into Iraq (and we have) there is no question at all about what McCain said and meant. I’d walk out as well. I’d boo as well. And if Speer’s daughter needed to be spared this spectacle, then Speer should not have lied. From what I’ve heard about Speer, she’s tough enough to take it, so nobody should be ashamed to dish it out if she earns it. She is an admirable woman in many respects - but that doesn’t insulate her from anything. [/QUOTE] But, surely you thought it was over the line when Congressman Phil Gingrey answered Stephanie Speier’s question, “Why are they booing my mom?,” with “Because your mom is lying whore. And we don’t like whores around here.” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-congresscritter-calls-for-end-to-war-pubs-boo-and-walk-out/444914/12 "2008-04-11T18:16:54Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] Not only did she lie, she did it in front of people she wasn’t going to sway in the first place. [/quote] What did she lie about? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-congresscritter-calls-for-end-to-war-pubs-boo-and-walk-out/444914/13 "2008-04-11T18:18:04Z")
[QUOTE=Giles] So what did McCain say and mean? Did he say that US troops need to stay in Iraq for 100 years or not? And how is it a “lie” to say that means sacrificing four generations of Americans? – Not that McCain would say that, but that that is a reasonable implication of what he has said. [/QUOTE] [No.](http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/04/01/politics/horserace/entry3985914.shtml) > [@](#): > > The charge results from comments McCain made at a town hall meeting in New Hampshire in January. After a questioner told McCain that President Bush has talked about staying in Iraq for 50 years, McCain said, “make it a hundred.” > > He continued: "We’ve been in Japan for 60 years. We’ve been in South Korea for 50 years or so. That would be fine with me, **as long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed."** > > McCain appears to be talking about maintaining a presence in Iraq, not continuing the type of war America is now fighting. He suggests it would be acceptable to “maintain a presence in a very volatile part of the world” similar to that in Japan and Korea. > > The nonpartisan Annenberg Political Fact Check calls the DNC’s suggestion, based on these comments, that McCain has called for an “endless war” in Iraq a **“rank falsehood.”** I added the boldings. So it is clear that McCain is not calling for sacrificing four generations of Americans and that assertions that he is are indeed lies. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-congresscritter-calls-for-end-to-war-pubs-boo-and-walk-out/444914/14 "2008-04-11T18:18:11Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] But, surely you thought it was over the line when Congressman Phil Gingrey answered Stephanie Speier’s question, “Why are they booing my mom?,” with “Because your mom is lying whore. And we don’t like whores around here.” [/QUOTE] Yeah. That’s pretty fucked up. But, um, cite? **Dio** , maybe “misrepresented” would be a beter term. I added an ETA to my post above. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-congresscritter-calls-for-end-to-war-pubs-boo-and-walk-out/444914/15 "2008-04-11T18:25:19Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] [No.](http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/04/01/politics/horserace/entry3985914.shtml) I added the boldings. So it is clear that McCain is not calling for sacrificing four generations of Americans and that assertions that he is are indeed lies. [/QUOTE] So she was telling the truth. He said he’d be ok with leaving four generations of troops in Iraq. The qualification of “as long as they’re not being harmed,” does not get him out of the box because, if there isn’t any danger then _why would they have to be there?_ It’s also disingenuous because the troops _are_ being harmed and his suggestion is that we should stay there no matter what. I’ve never heard him say we should leave under _any_ circumstances. She didn’t lie and the Republicans acted like fucking babies. It’s going to be a pleasure to take this country away from the neocons and see President Obama put an end to that abortion in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-congresscritter-calls-for-end-to-war-pubs-boo-and-walk-out/444914/16 "2008-04-11T18:25:45Z")
So, how is the US going to maintain a 100-year military presence in Iraq peacefully? It’s in places like Japan and Korea because those governments and people are generally happy with a US military presence – perhaps as a counter-balance to China and North Korea. You don’t have Japanese and Korean militias launching suicide attacks against the US military. However, given the recent past, that would seem likely to continue in Iraq for the foreseeable future. So the analysis that this requires continued American sacrifice is not a lie: it’s a reasonable argument about what McCain’s plan means in reality. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-congresscritter-calls-for-end-to-war-pubs-boo-and-walk-out/444914/17 "2008-04-11T18:38:26Z")
So make that argument intelligently as you just did - not in a simpleminded fashion like most Democrats, including Speer, have done. You don’t have to lie about what McCain said to pick it apart. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-congresscritter-calls-for-end-to-war-pubs-boo-and-walk-out/444914/18 "2008-04-11T18:40:32Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] So she was telling the truth. He said he’d be ok with leaving four generations of troops in Iraq. The qualification of “as long as they’re not being harmed,” does not get him out of the box because, if there isn’t any danger then _why would they have to be there?_ It’s also disingenuous because the troops _are_ being harmed and his suggestion is that we should stay there no matter what. I’ve never heard him say we should leave under _any_ circumstances. She didn’t lie and the Republicans acted like fucking babies. It’s going to be a pleasure to take this country away from the neocons and see President Obama put an end to that abortion in Iraq. [/QUOTE] I don’t know if it was a lie, but it certainly was a misrepresentation of what McCain said. If someone said we were sacrificing 2 generations of Americans in Korea, most of us would call that person delusional. And McCain clearly stated he was talking about a situation similar to Korea. I think it was ridiculous for the Pubbies to walk out-- if either party did that anytime someone “misspoke”, both parties would hardly ever be there. Hey, maybe that wouldn’t be so bad…! I’m looking forward to President Obama, too, but I won’t believe that he’s going to get us out of Iraq until I see it. I’ll be shocked if we don’t have at least 50k troops still there in Jan 2012. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-congresscritter-calls-for-end-to-war-pubs-boo-and-walk-out/444914/19 "2008-04-11T18:40:48Z")
It has been confirmed that she did NOT lie. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-congresscritter-calls-for-end-to-war-pubs-boo-and-walk-out/444914/20 "2008-04-11T18:42:49Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] It has been confirmed that she did NOT lie. [/QUOTE] In your fucking dreams. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-congresscritter-calls-for-end-to-war-pubs-boo-and-walk-out/444914.md?page=2)