# New crop circle movie **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 5, 2002, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-crop-circle-movie/122503 "2002-08-05T23:46:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-crop-circle-movie/122503/1 "2002-08-05T23:46:56Z")
Weren’t those conclusively proven to be a hoax, a few years back? ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-crop-circle-movie/122503/2 "2002-08-06T00:36:07Z")
[Yes](http://skepdic.com/cropcirc.html), Doug Bower and David Chorley admited to it being a hoax. I believe they were the first to do this sort of thing. I would imagine others copycated thier style. The movie is fiction, not a true story, therefore it doesn’t matter if it is real or not. Speculative Fiction writers wouldn’t be able to write about much if it had to be 100% true. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-crop-circle-movie/122503/3 "2002-08-06T01:28:22Z")
There’s 3 movies about crop circles coming out, not just “Signs”. I believe one is a documentary, which I bet the OP is referring to. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-crop-circle-movie/122503/4 "2002-08-06T02:02:11Z")
Speilberg(sp) is doing some sort of alien-abduction movie/series as well, I believe. Didn’t any of these people read ‘Demon-Haunted World?’ ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-crop-circle-movie/122503/5 "2002-08-06T02:34:18Z")
Who cares if they did or didn’t? Signs isn’t really **about** crop circles anyway and it certainly doesn’t purport to be ‘the real’ deal’ about their meaning and existance. ---
**Author:** ![Tejota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tejota](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tejota)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-crop-circle-movie/122503/6 "2002-08-06T06:28:36Z")
The two guys who ‘admitted’ to creating more than 250 of them were unable to create a high-quality circle with people watching. [http://www.cropcircleradius.com/Articles/whatever.html](http://www.cropcircleradius.com/Articles/whatever.html) [http://www.cropcircles.org/reports/vigay.php](http://www.cropcircles.org/reports/vigay.php) The true believers seem rather credulous to me, some of the _other_ things that they believe seem to be totally whacked out to me. _However_, there are some characteristics of _some_ circles that seem unlikely to be explained by a couple of guys stomping around in a field. [http://www.lovely.clara.net/education.html](http://www.lovely.clara.net/education.html) Clearly at least some of the circles are man made, probably most of them. But it is by no means clear that ALL of them are. IMO, One of the most sensible people in the scene believes that they are all man made, but HE can’t duplicate the best of what is out there. [http://cropcircleconnector.com/Sorensen/PeterSorensen99.html](http://cropcircleconnector.com/Sorensen/PeterSorensen99.html) ---
**Author:** ![fallapart](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fallapart/32/3018_2.png) [@fallapart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fallapart)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-crop-circle-movie/122503/7 "2002-08-06T11:42:35Z")
But if the first crop circles were man made, woun’t you figure the ones after were man made too? I mean, why would “real” crop circles start appearing after hoxes? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-crop-circle-movie/122503/8 "2002-08-06T15:49:35Z")
I can’t duplicate the Mona Lisa, but that doesn’t mean it was made by an alien. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. ---
**Author:** ![Kamandi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5daacb/32.png) [@Kamandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamandi)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-crop-circle-movie/122503/9 "2002-08-06T16:44:13Z")
From the site linked above by **Epimetheus** , is an [article](http://www.swirlednews.com/article.asp?artID=199) claiming that a man-made circle in 2001 is a poor replica of a “genuine” circle discovered in 1995: > [@](#): > > **A very significant further difference is seen in that the planet orbits in the original [1995 “genuine” crop circle] are elliptical in shape whilst the replica [man-made in 2001 for a movie] orbits are circular. This is very understandable, as _ellipses are difficult to make even on a drawing board, let alone in a field of crop._** [Emphasis added] Hahahaha! These people have obviously never taken a simple drafting course. An ellipse can be made with two pins (or posts, if you’re standing in a cornfield) and a loop of string. I love it when “cerealogists” (my new favorite word) claim that some crop circles are just way too complicated for mere humans to make. Yeah. And the pyramids were made by aliens, too. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-crop-circle-movie/122503/10 "2002-08-06T16:58:01Z")
I still say it’s just aliens just having a goof. They’re probably laughing their asses off at all the fuss we make. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kamandi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5daacb/32.png) [@Kamandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamandi)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-crop-circle-movie/122503/11 "2002-08-06T17:01:15Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Tejota_ > **The true believers seem rather credulous to me, some of the other things that they believe seem to be totally whacked out to me. _However, there are some characteristics of some circles that seem unlikely to be explained by a couple of guys stomping around in a field._** [Emphasis added] Please tell me that you’re not offering [http://www.lovely.clara.net/education.html](http://www.lovely.clara.net/education.html) as a cite for the above assertion, Tejota. > [@](#): > > Mathematically, genuine crop circles encode obscure theorems based on Euclidian geometry as well as the unalterable principles of sacred geometry. They have the capacity to alter the local electromagnetic field so that compasses cannot locate north; cameras, cellular phones and batteries fail to operate, and aircraft equipment fails whilst flying above them. Then there are levels of background radiation up to 300% above normal, radio frequencies falling dramatically or rising sharply within their perimeters, animals in local farms avoiding that particular area or simply acting agitated hours before one materializes, and car batteries in entire villages failling to operate the morning after one is found nearby. In some of the major events, entire towns have been left without power. > > Since genuine crop circles materialize at crossing points along the Earth’s electromagnetic energy currents, they are influencing the energy pattern of local phehistoric sites. They reference local Neolithic sites in size/shape/direction, and are dowsable upon entry, with as many as 150 concentric rings of energy outside their physical perimeter, like ripples in a pond. In fact, a year after they have been harvested and the field ploughed and re-sown, the energy imprint of the formations will still be dowsed, long after their physical traces have vanished. > > This area of research has allowed for the possibility of crop circles as a healing force, and they are already being successfully employed in radionics, flower essences and resonance therapy around the world, both for people and environments in distress. I’m speechless. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-crop-circle-movie/122503/12 "2002-08-06T17:21:29Z")
BTW, I am refering to “Signs”. Unaware of other movies. ---
**Author:** ![Gartog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/22d042/32.png) [@Gartog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gartog)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-crop-circle-movie/122503/13 "2002-08-06T18:40:31Z")
A couple of years ago one of the UK papers, The Daily Mail if recall, (not know as a great scientific journal; )) did a test. The hoaxers created a crop design in one night and then ‘experts’ were asked to examine it. All the experts agreed it was dominantly otherworldly. Not much without a cite, I know. - Gartog ---
**Author:** ![Tejota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tejota](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tejota)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-crop-circle-movie/122503/14 "2002-08-06T20:04:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kamandi \* > \*\* > Please tell me that you’re not offering [http://www.lovely.clara.net/education.html](http://www.lovely.clara.net/education.html) as a cite for the above assertion, Tejota. > \*\* Don’t worrry, that’s not what I’m saying. Like I said, a lot of what the believers think is hogwash. [Clara.net](http://Clara.net) is one of the most credulous. But they do mention blown nodes and higher-than-normal radiation levels. But if you look at the cites, it, and a few others have some information about evidence that the crop has been ‘heated’ prior to being lain down that has to my never been explained as a natural consequence of stomping on the crop. In particular if any one has ever shown that ‘blown nodes’ are a normal result of crop-stomping, that fact has never made it into the debunkers literature. In fact, I’m struck by the lack of rigor on the part of the debunkers just as I’m flabbergasted by the hokum that the believers spout. (like the idea that an ellipse is hard to draw). Or the idea that the geometry is somehow sacred… :rolleyes: However, I’ve never seen either a refutation or adequate explaination for this: > [@](#): > > The plants appear to be subjected to a short and intense burst of heat which softens the stems to drop just above the ground at 90ª, where they reharden into their new and very permanent position without damage. Plant biologists are baffled by this phenomenon, and farmers, who know how the land ticks, have no explanation either. It is the singlemost method of identifying the real phenomenon. Research and laboratory tests suggest that microwaves or infrasound may be the only method capable of producing such an effect. And there’s this paper, which I find hard to explain: [http://execonn.com/cropcircles/isotopes.html](http://execonn.com/cropcircles/isotopes.html) Supposed evidence of neutron bombardment?? Bad data? Nothing out of the ordinary?? or is there something really there? And this is interesting, but could be just an unreliable witness… [http://www.lovely.clara.net/crop\_circles\_history96.html](http://www.lovely.clara.net/crop_circles_history96.html) (notice the caption on the julia set picture at the top) - supposedly, a pattern appeared in a field near stonehenge in daylight sometime between 5:00 PM and 5:45 PM. I’m 90% sure that there are rational explanations for all of this, but, so far, the debunkers seem to be spending more time sneering than actually providing explanations. ---
**Author:** ![Kamandi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5daacb/32.png) [@Kamandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamandi)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-crop-circle-movie/122503/15 "2002-08-06T21:29:27Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Tejota_ > **In fact, I’m struck by the lack of rigor on the part of the debunkers just as I’m flabbergasted by the hokum that the believers spout. [snip] so far, the debunkers seem to be spending more time sneering than actually providing explanations.** Most rational people, debunkers included, consider the idea that little green men travel interstellar distances to make pretty patterns in cornfields under cover of darkness to be pretty startling. Common sense dictates that the evidence for this claim must be overwhelming. But what evidence do we have? > [@](#): > > The plants appear _[To whom?]_ to be subjected to a short and intense burst of heat which softens the stems to drop just above the ground at 90ª, where they reharden into their new and very permanent position without damage. Plant biologists _[All of them? Which ones?]_ are baffled by this phenomenon, and farmers, who know how the land ticks _[?]_, have no explanation either. It is the singlemost method of identifying the real phenomenon. Research and laboratory tests _[Performed by whom?]_ suggest that microwaves or infrasound may be the only method capable of producing such an effect. I find the above too vague to be convincing. There is some stuff about short-lived radio-isotopes from a paper written in 1992. I’m not an expert in that field, so I can’t pick apart their findings, but in their conclusion the writers strongly urged further testing. But after ten years, where’s the further testing to confirm that paper’s findings? Without confirmation, we can never know if the writers made an error somewhere, no matter how clever they think they are. Claims that crop circles affect local electrical power generation, electronice equipment or magnetic fields can be easily verified. None have been. Not helping the true believers’ case is talk of “sacred geometry”, dowsing and “resonance therapy”, as well as asserting that the geometry of “real” crop circles is just too hard for humans to replicate. On the other hand, we have a plausible story for the human origin of crop circles (including a confession by the originators!), demonstrated cases of people making them, and no instances or evidence that can only be explained by invoking extra-terrestrials. Simply put, why _shouldn’t_ we laugh at the idea? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-crop-circle-movie/122503/16 "2002-08-08T13:36:09Z")
The term “hoax” is a little misleading here. Some crop cirlces are explained; they’ve obviously just been physically flattened. Some circles, however, remain mysteries. Some have all stalks bent at the node, not at the base; you can’t do that with a two-by-four, to my knowledge. In some the stalks are interwoven on the ground. These unexplained crop circles are just that-- unexplained. Anyone who claim aliens make crop circles isn’t thinking straight. If I asked who what causes ball lightning, and you didn’t know, would you say A) “I don’t know.” or B) “Aliens.”? So, what causes the unexplained crop cirlces? I don’t know. I bet you don’t, either. That doesn’t mean aliens are involved, though. So please, leave any talk of aliens out of this conversation. ---
**Author:** ![DannyBhoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cab0a1/32.png) [@DannyBhoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DannyBhoy)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-crop-circle-movie/122503/17 "2002-08-08T16:44:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gartog \* > \*\*A couple of years ago one of the UK papers, The Daily Mail if recall, (not know as a great scientific journal; > )) did a test. > > The hoaxers created a crop design in one night and then ‘experts’ were asked to examine it. All the experts agreed it was dominantly otherworldly. > > Not much without a cite, I know. > > - Gartog \*\* [The night the UFOs didn’t land](http://www.skeptics.com.au/features/gallery/ufo/didntland.htm) (Daily Mail, August 7, 1999, by Sam Taylor) ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-crop-circle-movie/122503/18 "2002-08-09T18:14:04Z")
Don’t forget the [Circlemakers website](http://www.circlemakers.org/). These people seem to make some excellent, high quality crop circles to me. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-crop-circle-movie/122503/19 "2002-08-09T19:28:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tejota \* > **However, I’ve never seen either a refutation or adequate explaination for this:** > > > [@](#): > > > > The plants appear to be subjected to a short and intense burst of heat which softens the stems to drop just above the ground at 90° Correction: The plants are bent at 90 degree angles without being broken, and **some** undereducated but highly creative cereologist out there decided that this “must” have been caused by a short burst of heat. In fact, this particular phenomenon **has** been explained. I’ve even seen the explanation on at least two different crop circle TV shows on the Discovery Channel and/or Learning Channel. (This is quite remarkable, considering the latter channel’s penchant for pseudoscience shows.) When a “cereologist” holds up a wheat stalk and says to you, “Look, if I bend it, it breaks! The wheat stalks in the crop circles are bent but **not** broken. Therefore, aliens must have done it” – notice that said cereologist is always making the demonstration with a **dry** wheat stalk. If you bend a **moist** wheat stalk, such as what you might find at 3 AM with all the early morning dew having condensed on it, you can bend it at a 90 degree angle and it **won’t** break. And it’ll retain that bent-but-not-broken shape after it warms back up and dries back out. ---
**Author:** ![Kamandi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5daacb/32.png) [@Kamandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamandi)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-crop-circle-movie/122503/20 "2002-08-09T20:35:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\* When a “cereologist” holds up a wheat stalk and says to you, “Look, if I bend it, it breaks! The wheat stalks in the crop circles are bent but **not** broken. Therefore, aliens must have done it” – notice that said cereologist is always making the demonstration with a **dry** wheat stalk. If you bend a **moist** wheat stalk, such as what you might find at 3 AM with all the early morning dew having condensed on it, you can bend it at a 90 degree angle and it **won’t** break. And it’ll retain that bent-but-not-broken shape after it warms back up and dries back out. \*\* [/QUOTE] That’s what I’d assumed. Now why couldn’t a farmer “who know how the land ticks” think of that? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-crop-circle-movie/122503.md?page=2)