# New Deal Democrat and his views on race **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 21, 2011, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrat-and-his-views-on-race/575492 "2011-03-21T18:47:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrat-and-his-views-on-race/575492/101 "2011-03-22T18:08:42Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > If there is a genetic predisposition to engage in crime, and I am confident there is, there will not be one crime gene, but a constellation of genes. When they are discovered it will be easy to determine that most convicted felons have a large number of them, and that most people without felony convictions have few or none. It will also be possible to determine which babies are likely to become criminals, and which will be unlikely to develop that way. Let’s roll with this scenario - you check every baby whens born and when you find one that has these genes you… What? What would you do? Nothing vague please please point out exactly how you would treat these babies differently to other children, who would pay for it and what you would hope to achieve. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrat-and-his-views-on-race/575492/102 "2011-03-22T18:08:51Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > That’s an interesting thought experiment. I have another: What if someone has the balls to do more studies on race, genetics, and intelligence, violence, etc. And what if these studies do in fact show that White Americans have genes that result in lower levels of intelligence and higher levels of violence? Those studies would have to explain why whites have much lower crime rates than blacks, and higher average IQs. Keep in mind that people like Charles Murray are not making counter intuitive claims. They are explaining what virtually everyone knows to be true. ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrat-and-his-views-on-race/575492/103 "2011-03-22T18:10:05Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Those studies would have to explain why whites have much lower crime rates than blacks, and higher average IQs. Keep in mind that people like Charles Murray are not making counter intuitive claims. They are explaining what virtually everyone knows to be true. Wealth and all the advantages that come with it. Next question? ---
**Author:** ![Borzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/43a26b/32.png) [@Borzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Borzo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrat-and-his-views-on-race/575492/104 "2011-03-22T18:10:06Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Do you realize that the hypothetical you are proposing is so far beyond our ability to understand how genes work that it really makes it useless? Perhaps it’s scientifically useless. But if I ran that headline in the New York Times and on CNN and FOX News, I’m sure the results would be _extraordinarily significant._ ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrat-and-his-views-on-race/575492/105 "2011-03-22T18:13:05Z")
> [@Borzo](#): > > Perhaps it’s scientifically useless. But if I ran that headline in the New York Times and on CNN and FOX News, I’m sure the results would be _extraordinarily significant._ Sure. So would the discovery of faster than light travel. I don’t see us having the capability for doing either in the near future. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrat-and-his-views-on-race/575492/106 "2011-03-22T18:16:30Z")
> [@martu](#): > > Let’s roll with this scenario - you check every baby whens born and when you find one that has these genes you… > > What? What would you do? Nothing vague please please point out exactly how you would treat these babies differently to other children, who would pay for it and what you would hope to achieve. If there is a genetic predisposition to engage in crime it still would not be the case that everyone born with such a predisposition will become a criminal. My guess is that people born with such a predisposition would need to be raised in a stricter environment. My parents were fairly permissive with me. I never got into trouble with the police or in school because I did not want to. Currently the thought of engaging in a perfect crime and stealing $100,000 leaves me cold. I have fantasies, but they are of succeeding at legal activities. Also, if one can be tested for crime genes, this would be important in deciding which criminals should be paroled and which ones should not be. ---
**Author:** ![Borzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/43a26b/32.png) [@Borzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Borzo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrat-and-his-views-on-race/575492/107 "2011-03-22T18:19:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Sure. So would the discovery of faster than light travel. I don’t see us having the capability for doing either in the near future. If instead of > [@](#): > > 85% of the people who claim to belong to the African-American culture have the “violence gene”. I said > [@](#): > > 85% of the people who claim to belong to the African-American culture have dark skin. … Well holy shit we just found shared genetics within a “culture”! My mind is blown! ---
**Author:** ![Borzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/43a26b/32.png) [@Borzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Borzo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrat-and-his-views-on-race/575492/108 "2011-03-22T18:25:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Well holy shit we just found shared genetics\* within a “culture”! My mind is blown! \*For precision, replace with “shared genetics” with: “genes responsible for a particular behaviour” ETA: or “particualr trait” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrat-and-his-views-on-race/575492/109 "2011-03-22T18:25:36Z")
> [@Borzo](#): > > If instead of > > I said > > … > > Well holy shit we just found shared genetics within a “culture”! My mind is blown! But it’s not a unique shared trait. Plenty of other cultures have people with skin just as dark or just as varied. India comes immediately to mind. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrat-and-his-views-on-race/575492/110 "2011-03-22T18:34:06Z")
> [@Borzo](#): > > If instead of > > I said > > … > > Well holy shit we just found shared genetics within a “culture”! My mind is blown! Lets, think about this rationally, in the US race is partly deliminated by skin colour (also eye shape, hair form, etc). It **is not** deliminated by the other 9 million physical differences (hair colour, eye colour, height, blood type, presence of gene ‘x,’ etc); why is that? Could there be a social/historical reason for that? Why are some physical differences used, but not others? Are any non-genetic factors used to categorize people into race (social status, language, culture, geography location, etc)? ---
**Author:** ![Borzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/43a26b/32.png) [@Borzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Borzo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrat-and-his-views-on-race/575492/111 "2011-03-22T18:35:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > But it’s not a unique shared trait. Plenty of other cultures have people with skin just as dark or just as varied. India comes immediately to mind. You seem to be deliberately missing the point? Hypothetical: 1. We find a group of genes we can prove is responsible for increased violence or lower intelligence. 2. We test the population, and those that identify themselves as non-AA or any other race/culture - they have a 15% occurance of these genes. 3. We test those that self-identify as AA. 85% of them have these genes. I can keep clarifing my hypothetical, if necessary… though I believe my point is fairly clear. ETA: If it’s not, I can work on better analogies than skin color. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrat-and-his-views-on-race/575492/112 "2011-03-22T18:42:40Z")
Why is it that people who proclaim that there is a racial component to undesirable characteristics such as tendencies towards violence or lack of intelligence never turn out to be from those races themselves? Could it just be a coincidence? ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrat-and-his-views-on-race/575492/113 "2011-03-22T18:51:27Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Why is it that people who proclaim that there is a racial component to undesirable characteristics such as tendencies towards violence or lack of intelligence never turn out to be from those races themselves? Could it just be a coincidence? It’s genetic. 85% of them have the “racism gene”. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrat-and-his-views-on-race/575492/114 "2011-03-22T18:57:58Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > It’s genetic. 85% of them have the “racism gene”. :rolleyes: Is it on the same chromosome as the “sexism” gene and the “contempt for civil liberties” gene? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrat-and-his-views-on-race/575492/115 "2011-03-22T19:02:11Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > It’s genetic. 85% of them have the “racism gene”. :rolleyes: > [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Is it on the same chromosome as the “sexism” gene and the “contempt for civil liberties” gene? And the Western Imperialism gene! And the amoral capitalism gene! And the Can’t Speak Any Language But English gene! ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrat-and-his-views-on-race/575492/116 "2011-03-22T19:43:37Z")
> [@martu](#): > > Wealth and all the advantages that come with it. Hell to the yes. I invite New Deal Democrat to come to my hometown, which is populated mostly by broke-ass white deadbeats. The four black kids in town are all adopted, and all honor students. We have white muggings, white robberies, and every few years we have a white drive-by-shooting. (one every few years in a town of a few hundred people, mind you!) Hell, we even had ourselves a white spree killer and serial arsonist. Have a few white welfare queens who leave their kids home alone to go tear-assing around with their latest boyfriend, and who bitch out my dad when he won’t sell them cigarettes for their food stamps. It’s poverty and hopelessness that drive crime and bad behavior. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrat-and-his-views-on-race/575492/117 "2011-03-22T19:52:37Z")
> [@martu](#): > > How would you identify who was African-American? > [@Borzo](#): > > I would ask them. And conversely (all my friends of color will be pleased to know, I’m sure) anyone can become whitey by self-identification!! Heck, it makes as much sense… Didn’t we have a relatively recent, lengthy thread on the absence of human races (given modern biological understandings of “race”)? I’d swear we did. Am I really gonna have to challenge the hamsters to do a search? ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrat-and-his-views-on-race/575492/118 "2011-03-22T20:01:02Z")
“Why can’t we have an honest discussion of the _facts_ without you PC liberals playing the racism card? All I’m trying to say is: based on _hard data_, there is some evidence that - can I finish? _Can I finish?_ Thank you - negroes are inferior beings. I yield the remainder of my time.” ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrat-and-his-views-on-race/575492/119 "2011-03-22T20:01:03Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > Didn’t we have a relatively recent, lengthy thread on the absence of human races (given modern biological understandings of “race”)? I’d swear we did. Am I really gonna have to challenge the hamsters to do a search? Well, if they are black hamsters they won’t be able to find it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrat-and-his-views-on-race/575492/120 "2011-03-22T20:04:37Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Well, if they are black hamsters they won’t be able to find it anyway. Yeah, they’ll be too busy robbing and killing each other. It’s in the genes, you know. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrat-and-his-views-on-race/575492.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrat-and-his-views-on-race/575492.md?page=7)