# New Deal Democrat's (very welcome) banning **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 3, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063 "2012-07-03T03:51:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/141 "2012-07-05T17:49:55Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Well, are you assuming that since I am in fact a straight white male, I couldn’t possibly know anything about oppression and injustice? That none of that could have possibly ever happened to me? Well, I’m white, and male, and I’m so stealth-gay that people I first met _in a gay bar_ were surprised to learn that I was gay. So I’ve got first-hand experience of what it’s like to by white, male, and perceived straight in American society. And I’ve never experienced any kind of systemic discrimination because of those factors. Nor have I ever met anyone who’s suffered systemic discrimination because of those factors. Nor have I ever heard of anyone who’s claimed discrimination on those factors whose claims weren’t, ultimately, sour grapes over a loss of privilege. > [@](#): > > And are you saying that it’s not ok for people to be racists on this board unless their issue is with a certain class of people (straight white males), in which case you think that they (the straight white males) don’t really have any basis for complaint? No, I’m saying that, having experienced _actual_ discrimination, I’m more able to differentiate between that, and hallucinatory discrimination, like what you’re complaining about in this thread. I am very much opposed to actual discrimination against straights, whites, and males. Should the matter ever arise, I’m also opposed to the oppression of same. But I’m not losing a lot of sleep over that ever happening. > [@](#): > > Just trying to nail down the obtuse responses from our moderators here and understand where you’re going with this. > > Oh sure, you and TnD can claim you never said that, but that’s why I’m asking. What is it that I’m supposed to claim that I never said? ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/142 "2012-07-05T18:19:36Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > So saying “blacks aren’t as evolved as whites and are closer to monkeys because they don’t have neanderthal genes”(???\*) doesn’t trigger the hate-speech rule but calling someone a nigger does? Yes, that is a correct summary. The first is, theoretically, a claim about facts based in science, and refutable by science. The second is just a slur word. > [@Krokodil](#): > > Actually, he’s 84. I misread his birth date in Wikipedia. 84 is closing in on 90, at least from my perspective (at 41). It’s certainly a better target for him than 84 1/2. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/143 "2012-07-05T18:29:39Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Maybe Whites have greater mental abilities than Blacks. Maybe they don’t. Maybe Asians have greater mental abilities than Whites. Maybe they don’t. It seems obvious that even if this is generally true, that the differences are small enough that we can expect any individual of any one race to outperform an individual from either of the other. So, I don’t really care what the finding are either way. Feel free to stop by one of the established threads and support your hypothesis. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/144 "2012-07-05T18:43:36Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Feel free to stop by one of the established threads and support your hypothesis. Huh? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/145 "2012-07-05T18:47:07Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > You’ll have to forgive me if I don’t have time to wallow in shame and guilt at the very idea that white straight males are the source of all evils in the world. If that’s your thing, knock yourself out. If only you had said swallow. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/146 "2012-07-05T19:50:42Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > What? OK. I only looked at the original post. Missed the other one. The original post was still a bigoted statement. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/147 "2012-07-05T20:25:07Z")
I guess I must’ve somehow turned black the time I got falsely accused of shoplifting, because clearly straight white males are never treated that way… Oh, and the time my buddy and me got pulled over by the cops for no reason. Guess we turned black that day too… Guess I can’t have anything to say about anything because once the incidents were over back to white we were! ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/148 "2012-07-05T21:44:26Z")
The United States is a default culture. The default value is what’s normal. If it’s not the default, you need to put in a qualifier. Male is the default state. White is the default state. Straight is the default state. There are many others. Christian, born in America, English-speaking, middle class. Default states are like water to fish. If you’re part of the default you never even notice that it’s all around you. If you’re not… It’s amazing how obvious it is. There are reminders everywhere, all the time. They might be deliberate oppression, they might be taking the default for granted without any intent to offend, but they are everywhere. You can never escape them. The quickest way to realize what the equivalent of water is for human culture is to go to a culture where you don’t speak the language, or even recognize the alphabet. Even the simplest, most basic tasks are immediately filled with obstacles. You are not being oppressed, but everything is harder, many people won’t have any sympathy for you, and those who do can never fully put themselves in your place since everything that is hard for you is default easy for them. There’s an old joke that comes to mind while reading some of the posts here. A child asks a parent, “If there is a Mother’s Day and a Father’s Day, then why isn’t there a Children’s Day?” And the parent answers, “Because every day is Children’s Day.” Since you won’t get the point unless I spell it out for you: you’re acting like children. And we’re pointing it out. If you don’t like it, then try acting grown up. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/149 "2012-07-05T23:14:52Z")
The best thing about whining by straight white males is that you never have to look very hard to find some. [Alabama pastor holds ‘whites only’ conference](http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/alabama-pastor-hold-whites-only-conference-162845760.html) > [@](#): > > Christian Identity Ministries is holding a three-day conference for so-called “white Christians” who contend they have been treated unfairly, the Rev. Mel Lewis told local TV station WSFA. Lewis, the organizer and keynote speaker, says they have the right, like any other Americans, to worship how they wish. > > Ku Klux Klan flags and white supremacy slogans surround the conference, which will conclude with a cross being set on fire Friday night. Organizers say it’s not a cross-burning, but rather sacred Christian cross lighting. I wish this were a parody. I really, really, really wish that. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/150 "2012-07-06T01:55:55Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The best thing about whining by straight white males is that you never have to look very hard to find some. > > [Alabama pastor holds ‘whites only’ conference](http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/alabama-pastor-hold-whites-only-conference-162845760.html) > > I wish this were a parody. I really, really, really wish that. Christian Identity are complete horrifying nutjobs who will make you pine for the days of New Deal Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/151 "2012-07-06T04:16:38Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > James Watson, co-discoverer of the structure of DNA and author of **The Double Helix** , has made a number of ill-considered statements in recent years (and the guy is closing in on 90) that are widely described as “racist.” I think I have a thing or two I could learn from him. > > Not that NDD has made any comparable contributions to the culture, though. From your use of scare quotes, I take it you don’t actually think his claims that certain races are inferior are “racist”? The irony is that a lot of what could be learned from Watson is how to earn legendary status for work that was, at least in large part, done by other, largely forgotten people. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/152 "2012-07-06T05:26:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > He didn’t say anything about hatred. He said it was a bigoted comment, and it was. Well this straight white male didn’t detect any bigotry. Hilarity, sure. Bigotry, natch. Anyone who hasn’t sussed to the reality that [straight white males play the lowest difficulty setting](http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/) is either clueless or a whiner. Not that life isn’t challenging all around - of course it is. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/153 "2012-07-06T07:34:01Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > From your use of scare quotes, I take it you don’t actually think his claims that certain races are inferior are “racist”? Do you have any beloved elderly relatives who, after around age 80, start listening to a lot of AM talk radio and blithely start dropping a lot of less-than-progressive sentiments into their conversation? I tend to attribute this more to dementia than to hatred. I sure don’t think it comes from the same place as when my generational peers say the same things. YMMV. Having read his comments, I believe his point is “The numbers don’t support what your liberal ideals wish they supported.” I don’t believe his point was “Negroes are irretrievably stupid.” There is a world of difference between those two positions. But congratulations on jumping on the trendy new meme of “scare quotes,” even if I don’t think you applied it correctly. > [@](#): > > The irony is that a lot of what could be learned from Watson is how to earn legendary status for work that was, at least in large part, done by other, largely forgotten people. He said as much in the introduction to his book. Ultimately, all scientists are [standing on the shoulders of giants](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_on_the_shoulders_of_giants). Not many of them write a book as good as **The Double Helix** , though. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/154 "2012-07-06T13:37:45Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > I guess I must’ve somehow turned black the time I got falsely accused of shoplifting, because clearly straight white males are never treated that way… Oh, and the time my buddy and me got pulled over by the cops for no reason. Guess we turned black that day too… Guess I can’t have anything to say about anything because once the incidents were over back to white we were! No doubt there’s a point in there somewhere, but you’ve disguised it so cleverly it’s nearly impossible to tell. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/155 "2012-07-06T14:38:14Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > No doubt there’s a point in there somewhere, but you’ve disguised it so cleverly it’s nearly impossible to tell. He must be one of those Orientals I’ve heard about. They’re supposed to be very clever! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/156 "2012-07-06T15:55:08Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Oh, and the time my buddy and me got pulled over by the cops for no reason. Guess we turned black that day too… Guess I can’t have anything to say about anything because once the incidents were over back to white we were! I had a discussion about this with a co-worker once. To set the stage: we’re both about the same age, we have the same job with the same firm, we dress the same (we both shop at Brooks Brothers), we both have graduate degrees, we both have professional qualifications, we both earn high incomes, we live in similar income-level neighborhoods, we drive similar (in price) cars, we both passed the same background check for our jobs. One difference: I’m white, he’s black. He gets pulled over a half-dozen times a year. I have never been pulled over (and I’m not even a particularly good driver; I speed, I do the rolling stop thing, I cut people off, etc.). I can’t imagine living in a world where I got treated like that. I’m a relatively easy-going person in real life, but if I got shit-on my whole life for the color of my skin I can’t imagine the rage I would feel. I would be annoyed if I got pulled over even once. If I got pulled over again and again and again and again and again, even though I was a law-abiding, productive member of society, I would start to resent the hell out of that society. And then if I came here to complain about it and had a nasty little shit like \*\*NDD \*\*call me a savage… Or had some ignorant white person whine about the one time that he got pulled over so it must not be a black thing… Fuck, I would be blowing shit up. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/157 "2012-07-06T21:41:15Z")
> [@Myrnalene](#): > > So, you actually think that espousing Creationism on a message board is harmful but that saying blacks are inferior, criminal and stupid isn’t. Excuse me, but that’s fucking ridiculous. I agree the opinion you are attributing to me is fucking ridiculous, largely because it in no way matches what I posted and I’m not sure it was even supposed to. This is getting tiresome, **Myrnalene** , so consider this a formal instruction: get a new hobby. We don’t allow recreational complaining here. I am unable to think of a better description for your posts since most of them are either complaining about the rules in this forum or attacking other posters in ATMB or the Pit. You need to start posting about some other topics and posting a lot less about your current pet peeves. > [@BigT](#): > > None of that actively hurts people. Yes it does. Maybe you’re splitting hairs over the definition of “actively,” but I don’t care to go down that road. The effects of both are harmful. > [@](#): > > And if you seriously believe that words don’t hurt people Where did I say that? Words can hurt people, but we don’t have a rule against saying things that hurt people. It’s not even against the rules to intentionally hurt people, although that is against the rules in many circumstances. > [@](#): > > why are you on a board with moderation against being a jerk? Why not go hang out at 4chan instead of moderating a board where you disagree with the number one rule? I’m getting tired of this hysteria. I think that if your interpretation of my post was ‘ **Marley23** doesn’t think words can hurt people and doesn’t support the jerk rule,’ you probably should have stopped and considered if maybe I was saying something else. I am saying this: _I don’t think we can treat racism differently from other beliefs on that basis._ You said “Being a racist hurts other people,” as if the belief hurts other people. It doesn’t. Once the belief is put into action it often hurts other people. However **New Deal Democrat** didn’t do that very often. He sometimes advocated eliminating particular social programs - he seemed to dislike No Child Left Behind the most - but other people have done the same for non-racist reasons, and his posts on this board didn’t move the country much closer to eliminating those programs. He was an idiot and a bigot himself but I can’t remember him arguing in favor of Jim Crow type policies or other racial discrimination. He was warned several times for doing something similar to ‘hurting other people’ (injecting his beliefs into topics where it wasn’t relevant, which often offended people) but the only time I can think of where he attacked someone for racial reasons was that post to **MrDibble** , and that post was a big part of the reason we banned him. Racism can certainly hurt people, but it’s far from the only belief with that can do that. Saying something like ‘Racism affects other people and being a Creationist doesn’t’ is ridiculous. Creationists have spent decades trying to undermine the teaching of science, and I think they’ve been pretty successful. Our beliefs don’t affect other people when they’re in our minds, but almost all of us put our beliefs into action one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![Myrnalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@Myrnalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrnalene)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/158 "2012-07-06T22:44:46Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I agree the opinion you are attributing to me is fucking ridiculous, largely because it in no way matches what I posted and I’m not sure it was even supposed to. This is getting tiresome, **Myrnalene** , so consider this a formal instruction: get a new hobby. We don’t allow recreational complaining here. I am unable to think of a better description for your posts since most of them are either complaining about the rules in this forum or attacking other posters in ATMB or the Pit. You need to start posting about some other topics and posting a lot less about your current pet peeves. You don’t allow recreational complaining? [You have an entire forum for it.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/forumdisplay.php?f=5) You and the other mods have spent this whole thread and several others explaining why racist speech can’t be moderated, and then turn around and moderate me because I complain about the board too much for your liking, and because I like to tell people off in the forum for telling people off. There aren’t enough “whatevers” in the entire world to describe my opinion of your priorities. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/159 "2012-07-06T22:50:13Z")
> [@Myrnalene](#): > > There aren’t enough “whatevers” in the entire world to describe my opinion of your priorities. Whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/160 "2012-07-06T23:00:54Z")
> [@Myrnalene](#): > > You don’t allow recreational complaining? We don’t allow recreational complaining about the moderation of the board, no. I notice you linked to the Pit, where complaining about moderating and the rules isn’t allowed, so I think you take my meaning. We don’t allow people to post here just so they can complain about the board. > [@](#): > > You and the other mods have spent this whole thread and several others explaining why racist speech can’t be moderated At no time have we said we cannot moderate racist speech. We _do_ moderate racist speech. > [@](#): > > There aren’t enough “whatevers” in the entire world to describe my opinion of your priorities. Good. Now you won’t have to waste so much energy saying “whatever” over and over and can start posting about some other topics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063.md?page=9)