# New Deal Democrat's (very welcome) banning **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 3, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063 "2012-07-03T03:51:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/161 "2012-07-07T01:09:26Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Whatever. Hey, you heard the lady. There aren’t enough whatevers, and you go and waste a perfectly good one! ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/162 "2012-07-07T01:28:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Hey, you heard the lady. There aren’t enough whatevers, and you go and waste a perfectly good one! Whatever do you mean? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/163 "2012-07-07T06:08:30Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > First, “racist” can be used two ways. I’ve seen here more than a few times someone trying to get a poster to admit that taking race into consideration makes someone a “racist”. Then shifting from the innocent scientific connotation to the KKK variety: “He’s a self-admitted RACIST!” > > Second, there is a factually correct answer as to whether the differences in races are at all manifested in mental function. Whether you like it or not has no bearing on that reality. It’s akin to arguing the race plays a role in one race generally being taller or having darker skin. But the reality is that many people simply do not want to have the conversation at all. It makes them uncomfortable, so they seek to shout down the person and start Pit threads in order to make the topic verboten and paint the other person in the debate as a bad or evil person: a “RACIST”!!! > > Reality has no such personal bias. What I find funny about this is that many of the people so desperate to shut down the discussion are this who claim to have such a high regard for science and the truth. > > Maybe Whites have greater mental abilities than Blacks. Maybe they don’t. Maybe Asians have greater mental abilities than Whites. Maybe they don’t. It seems obvious that even if this is generally true, that the differences are small enough that we can expect any individual of any one race to outperform an individual from either of the other. So, I don’t really care what the finding are either way. > > But then WHY have the discuss, right. Well, science often explores things that we don’t know the benefit of. That’s the dispassionate nature of scientific inquiry, isn’t it. Also, it’s not like the subject has been brought up for us in the real world. Look at SAT scores, look at tests for Police and Fire Departments. Why is it, for instance, that Blacks score so poorly in relation to Whites. The might be that the difference can be attributed—100%—to culture.It may also be the fact that the attribution can be 99%. Or 84%. Whatever. > > I just don’t get that people on a debate board devoted to fighting ignorance would want to shout people down and close off a line of discussion. The crackpots will be made to look like fools more effectively without people trying to label them as RACISTS and such. Also, if you think someone is a jerk you (pl) can just bow out of the discussion. And there’s even a handy-dandy little feature called “Ignore” that saves you from being affected by even seeing the words these racists spew. > > I have little feeling about **NDD** , but I am troubled by this mob rule of sorts. It’s a friggin debate board. People should be able to debate pretty much anything. And the competence with which one argues a particular point should not be conflated with validity of the point being argued. Someone might not be able to argue a conservative point as well as **Bricker** , or make as good a case for the support of Israel as **FinnAgain** , but those are problems with the poster’s ability rather than the validity of the argument. And certainly not the threshold a topic must reach to even be discussed. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Amen. It’s really about time to give up on the “fighting ignorance” motto. There are whole swaths of ignorance that the posters on this board largely support and cling to rather than fight. :rolleyes: I was going to leave this pile of silly points just to lie there but Rand Rover in another thread just remind me that superficial problems other posters have with grammar are more important to notice rather than the jackass behavior shown by NDD and brasil in ignoring that virtually all posters already acknowledged that there should be discussion about the gap and how to deal with it, it is just that it is idiotic to assume that a genetic explanation is the final answer or the main reason for that gap. NDD never acknowledged the problems his evidence and cites had, the cites did not really support what he said and even worse, on many times the cites completely discredited him and brasil84. And what brazil specially \*\*did \*\* was not just to “close off a line of discussion” he \*\*did \*\*shut down others that did had good evidence against him. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/164 "2012-07-07T12:07:22Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And what brazil specially \*\*did \*\* was not just to “close off a line of discussion” he \*\*did \*\*shut down others that did had good evidence against him. **brazil84** is a moderator? I did not know that. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/165 "2012-07-07T13:35:54Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > **brazil84** is a moderator? I did not know that. > > Regards, > Shodan That was in reference to his “thou shall be banned” pronouncements in many discussions, it was not just on the pit BTW, of course brazil84 referred to his ignore list as a “ban” list and weirdly he even posts his list in his blog, indeed a clear case of “closing off lines of discussion” while at the same time he was just repeating racist points. Nice system to have, and it seems that many conservatives fail to notice how jerkish that is. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/166 "2012-07-07T13:53:27Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > That was in reference to his “thou shall be banned” pronouncements in many discussions, it was not just on the pit BTW, of course brazil84 referred to his ignore list as a “ban” list and weirdly he even posts his list in his blog, indeed a clear case of “closing off lines of discussion” while at the same time he was just repeating racist points. You still haven’t explained how it shuts down discussion. OK, so he has you on his Ignore list. So? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/167 "2012-07-07T14:06:16Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You still haven’t explained how it shuts down discussion. > > OK, so he has you on his Ignore list. So? > > Regards, > Shodan Several times me and others posted evidence that clearly showed that he and NDD were wrong, perhaps the problem here is that you think a discussion can continue when he clams up? Or that a racist monologue in debating is something to be commended and defended? (Remember that the point here is that the defense of NDD and brazil84 made by magellan and Rand Rover is really silly when they ignore the rude willful ignorance of the facts that NDD and brazil84 showed.) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/168 "2012-07-07T15:47:52Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Several times me and others posted evidence that clearly showed that he and NDD were wrong, perhaps the problem here is that you think a discussion can continue when he clams up? Yes, obviously it can. Nobody is under any obligation to respond to anyone else, for any reason or no reason. And that does not stop anyone else from continuing the discussion, or starting a new one. That’s how messageboards work, even those with an Ignore function. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/169 "2012-07-07T16:24:15Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Several times me and others posted evidence that clearly showed that he and NDD were wrong, perhaps the problem here is that you think a discussion can continue when he clams up? Or that a racist monologue in debating is something to be commended and defended? (Remember that the point here is that the defense of NDD and brazil84 made by magellan and Rand Rover is really silly when they ignore the rude willful ignorance of the facts that NDD and brazil84 showed.) So you object to a poster putting certain people on ignore because it shuts down the discussion. Okay. So, can I assume that you are against trying to shut down the discussions that involve race? Or discussions with people you perceive to be racist? Also, you say you participated in these discussions. Did you do so of your own free will or did someone sneak into your house from time to time and hold a gun to your head? Of course, you expressed yourself because you wanted to. Why would you want to “clam up” someone and deprive them of that same ability. You seem to be aware that there is an Ignore function. Use it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/170 "2012-07-07T16:55:24Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > So you object to a poster putting certain people on ignore because it shuts down the discussion. Okay. So, can I assume that you are against trying to shut down the discussions that involve race? Or discussions with people you perceive to be racist? He is that clueless heh guys? I already told you, there was no effort to learn anything from NDD or brazil84 and they only reached for the genetic explanations, even though virtually all acknowledged that that intelligence gap is there you are pretending that that was not done and it follows then that ignoring that there was no genetic evidence to support that key point NDD and brazil84 are just jerking us around, there was no discussion there, specially when one actually refuses to discuss or consider contradictory evidence. > [@magellan01](#): > > Also, you say you participated in these discussions. Did you do so of your own free will or did someone sneak into your house from time to time and hold a gun to your head? Of course, you expressed yourself because you wanted to. Why would you want to “clam up” someone and deprive them of that same ability. You seem to be aware that there is an Ignore function. Use it. And here is even more silliness, **I do not ignore anyone** , why are you defending the ones that clam up to ignore evidence and most of the debaters? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/171 "2012-07-07T16:57:32Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, obviously it can. > > Nobody is under any obligation to respond to anyone else, for any reason or no reason. And that does not stop anyone else from continuing the discussion, or starting a new one. That’s how messageboards work, even those with an Ignore function. > > Regards, > Shodan And I did continue, as pointed before I do not ignore anyone, so stop defending the clam up “debaters”. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/172 "2012-07-07T17:27:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Nobody is under any obligation to respond to anyone else, for any reason or no reason. And that does not stop anyone else from continuing the discussion, or starting a new one. That’s how messageboards work, even those with an Ignore function. Yup. Works best for your own sanity and peace of mind if you learn to make your point, accept that no matter what you say, someone is going to disagree with you, and move on. Often the best response is no response. It is not necessary and is in fact counterproductive to defend your position to the ends of the Earth or respond to every single reply (which I always felt was Dio’s biggest failing). It’s kinda like my co-worker Clueless George, who seems to think that repeating his opinion over and over (usually a one or two sentence statement of it) is going to make me suddenly realize that he is right. No, all it’s done is piss me off and eventually, file a formal complaint about his inability to grasp social clues that he needs to shut the fuck up and stop harassing me about it. If you want a very easy reference to that kind of behavior on this board, you only need look at the pit threat on Mister Nyx or the pit thread on Kozmik. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/173 "2012-07-07T18:24:18Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > No, all it’s done is piss me off and eventually, file a formal complaint about his inability to grasp social clues that he needs to shut the fuck up and stop harassing me about it. Done too, but you should realize that then we are “attempting to shut down the discussion!” 😛 that is not directed at you, but to the departed NDD and the “IGNORE YOU” bot. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/174 "2012-07-07T18:44:17Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Done too, but you should realize that then we are “attempting to shut down the discussion!” 😛 that is not directed at you, but to the departed NDD and the “IGNORE YOU” bot. Except that while I could not ignore a guy who kept walking into my cube and yelling at the back of my head or repeatedly IMing me even when I told him to stop, I can ignore people on message boards, most easily by either not reading the thread or by simply skimming over their posts to see if there is anything different and ignoring the bits I don’t care to be involved with. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/175 "2012-07-07T19:31:30Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Except that while I could not ignore a guy who kept walking into my cube and yelling at the back of my head or repeatedly IMing me even when I told him to stop, I can ignore people on message boards, most easily by either not reading the thread or by simply skimming over their posts to see if there is anything different and ignoring the bits I don’t care to be involved with. Uh, that was not directed at you, I basically agree with what you are saying as I also did report them. I also later just commented on the howlers that they attempted to pass as supporting cites, and skipped most of the repeated nonsense, the point here is to notice that the silly mantra that they use is to accuse others of attempting to shut down discussions when in reality they are not looking for one, just to make propaganda for their racist agenda, I would not be surprised if even your advise would be turned by them into yet another effort to “shut down the discussion” is like a creationist demanding that we teach the controversy when there is virtually none. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/176 "2012-07-08T12:29:26Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And I did continue, as pointed before I do not ignore anyone, so stop defending the clam up “debaters”. If you did continue, then what you claimed about **NDD** and **brazil84** shutting down the discussion isn’t true. I’m glad we have established that - no one is shutting down a discussion by refusing to participate in it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/177 "2012-07-08T13:09:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If you did continue, then what you claimed about **NDD** and **brazil84** shutting down the discussion isn’t true. I’m glad we have established that - no one is shutting down a discussion by refusing to participate in it. > > Regards, > Shodan Clueless also, remember, when one sides tells you that they will ignore you before hand and any evidence you bring it is more than shutting down a discussion, there was really none. The shutting down is made by the willful ignorant poster and that is the point, but there are many others that are not like that. And so here comes the other reason I do post: for other readers that do wonder if the one clamming up has any leg to stand of, as it turns out it is a pleasure to post detailed cites that show the extreme levels of willful ignorance and anti-scientific points that guys like brazil84 try to pass as debatable. The real pleasure comes from the fact that his “banishment” of others does help to show how inept they are on a subject and the best part is that all others can see that and do refer to the cite I brought, showing even the ignoramus who has the relevant info in a discussion because cites can not be put on ignore, so it should irk the willful ignorant that they can not risk replying to show how dumb they are for putting me and others in ignore. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/178 "2012-07-08T17:34:51Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The shutting down is made by the willful ignorant poster and that is the point… No, there is no shutting down occurring. We have already established that. No one is shutting down any discussion by refusing to participate in it. > [@](#): > > … it should irk the willful ignorant that they can not risk replying to show how dumb they are for putting me and others in ignore. I think we might have hit on part of the problem here. You (and others) are getting upset because it **doesn’t** irk people when you post things you consider have refuted them. Put it this way - you have made and repeated a claim that people who refuse to continue to debate you are shutting down debate. I have presented arguments that, IMO, have shown this not to be the case. You don’t agree. I think you are wrong and I am right. I’m done with this thread, and will not respond further to you in it. Not because any further argument reveals my ignorance, but because it will (again, IMO) reveal yours. You aren’t listening, even though I am (IMO) just as right as you believe yourself to be in the racism threads. Nonetheless, the discussion can continue without me. Lots of people simply never admit when they are wrong. So it goes. Accepting this does not “shut off discussion”, it merely recognizes human nature. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/179 "2012-07-08T18:31:29Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I think we might have hit on part of the problem here. You (and others) are getting upset because it **doesn’t** irk people when you post things you consider have refuted them. Your problem is to think that I alone agree that they were refuted, the vast majority of experts and posters agree with me. > [@Shodan](#): > > Put it this way - you have made and repeated a claim that people who refuse to continue to debate you are shutting down debate. I have presented arguments that, IMO, have shown this not to be the case. You don’t agree. I think you are wrong and I am right. Sure, but I’m afraid you did not check the threads where that took place, suffice to say there was no debate there. > [@Shodan](#): > > I’m done with this thread, and will not respond further to you in it. Not because any further argument reveals my ignorance, but because it will (again, IMO) reveal yours. You aren’t listening, even though I am (IMO) just as right as you believe yourself to be in the racism threads. Nonetheless, the discussion can continue without me. > > Lots of people simply never admit when they are wrong. So it goes. Accepting this does not “shut off discussion”, it merely recognizes human nature. > > Regards, > Shodan But not the current state of science, as I pointed before, it does not matter that you think I’m wrong or right, or that you are right or wrong, what matters is what the experts out there say. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063/180 "2012-07-09T14:42:54Z")
so maybe I missed a nuance, but **Shodan** , do you not get that if someone puts, I don’t know, maybe 20 posters with an opposing opinion on “Ignore”, and announces that fact, that the Ignorer is attempting to shut down debate? How can I have a discussion with the Ignore Bot after he has ‘banned’ me? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-deal-democrats-very-welcome-banning/627063.md?page=10)