# New development in Wizard of Oz "hanging"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [August 23, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-development-in-wizard-of-oz-hanging/593775 "2011-08-23T14:18:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-development-in-wizard-of-oz-hanging/593775/41 "2015-05-28T13:22:32Z")
> [@John\_W.Kennedy](#): > > And I knew about half of the last dozen or so surviving Munchkins. They would have talked about it. Nah, this was all over their heads. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-development-in-wizard-of-oz-hanging/593775/42 "2015-05-28T14:05:23Z")
Munchkin jokes? I thought we were bigger than this. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-development-in-wizard-of-oz-hanging/593775/43 "2015-05-28T14:47:34Z")
A Doper never stands so tall as when s/he stoops to work in a munchkin joke. You shouldn’t belittle people for that. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-development-in-wizard-of-oz-hanging/593775/44 "2015-05-28T15:44:18Z")
I have it on good authority that they actually hanged the bird that was loose on the set after it was captured. The crew spent so much time trying to get the thing off the set that they figured it was a warning to all the other animals that had broken loose. After shooting they were appalled at the sight of a bird hanging from it’s neck in the background that they immediately went to work on the only print available hand coloring the frames one by one to cover it up. Unfortunately in the editing room they only got the message to “cover up that damn hanging bird” so they drew in a hanging Munchkin instead. This print was copied and made it out to several theaters and one of the reels was used in an early video copy for television. Upon noticing the hanging Munchkin in the background the studio immediately had all the copies collected and again hand edited to remove the offending image. Unfortunately in the rush to simply color over the previous modification they accidentally created an image that looked like Satan having sex with Dorothy and Toto. Horrified again they search through remaining outtakes and found a scene where the bird was still running loose in the background. Now with modern video editing software they were able to patch in the image of the loose bird in the background that is seen in most video releases. It makes such perfect sense I can’t see a reason to doubt the story. Or perhaps it was just a loose bird on the set to start with, but what’s the likelihood of that happening? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-development-in-wizard-of-oz-hanging/593775/45 "2015-05-28T17:19:13Z")
Well, if you look closely, the “bird” is strolling about on a grassy knoll. Makes perfect sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-development-in-wizard-of-oz-hanging/593775/46 "2015-06-02T14:29:59Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Stopped short, eh? > [@Ethilrist](#): > > Nah, this was all over their heads. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Munchkin jokes? > I thought we were bigger than this. > [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > A Doper never stands so tall as when s/he stoops to work in a munchkin joke. You shouldn’t belittle people for that. Appalling. I refuse to stoop to your level. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-development-in-wizard-of-oz-hanging/593775/47 "2015-06-02T14:36:26Z")
_Somewhere, under a rainbow Far below There’s a tale of a munchkin Swinging from a rope, to and fro_ ---
**Author:** ![astral](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a698b9/32.png) [@astral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astral)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-development-in-wizard-of-oz-hanging/593775/48 "2016-10-04T19:13:41Z")
I am old enough to tell you I saw this on TV in the 1960s and it was a hanging person swaying back and forth from a tree. I did not know until a month or so ago about this hanging munchkin story, but I know what I saw because it frightened me and I thought about it at the time, even believing it was part of the movie. It is upsetting now to think it might have been a real death on screen. It could have been played down as a visual effect and not changed, if it were not real. Even if you can’t believe people would have let someone die and keep the camera rolling, I can tell you that between 1964 and 1968 this was the version on TV, before anyone had color TV or VHS machines. In fact I registered for this forum today in order to make this post. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-development-in-wizard-of-oz-hanging/593775/49 "2016-10-04T19:21:54Z")
> [@astral](#): > > I am old enough to tell you I saw this on TV in the 1960s and it was a hanging person swaying back and forth from a tree. I did not know until a month or so ago about this hanging munchkin story, but I know what I saw because it frightened me and I thought about it at the time, even believing it was part of the movie. > > It is upsetting now to think it might have been a real death on screen. It could have been played down as a visual effect and not changed, if it were not real. > > Even if you can’t believe people would have let someone die and keep the camera rolling, I can tell you that between 1964 and 1968 this was the version on TV, before anyone had color TV or VHS machines. > > In fact I registered for this forum today in order to make this post. Well, welcome, and thanks for the contribution, but I think the short answer is going to be that if there was any such image or event, it would have come to light by now somewhere other than in dim memories of 50-year-old viewings. Memory is a funny thing. You might want to search for and skim through the thread here on the “alternate ending to the movie _Big_.” Many people are going to go to their graves believing they saw a different ending to that movie than the current release, despite not so much as a still, a grainy YouTube capture or the slightest confirmation from any of the cast or crew that any such ending was considered, scripted or shot. I will concur with you that as a kid watching it on TV, I found\* Wizard of Oz\* inexplicably creepy in many ways. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-development-in-wizard-of-oz-hanging/593775/50 "2016-10-04T19:25:28Z")
> [@astral](#): > > I am old enough to tell you I saw this on TV in the 1960s and it was a hanging person swaying back and forth from a tree. I did not know until a month or so ago about this hanging munchkin story, but I know what I saw because it frightened me and I thought about it at the time, even believing it was part of the movie. > > It is upsetting now to think it might have been a real death on screen. It could have been played down as a visual effect and not changed, if it were not real. > > Even if you can’t believe people would have let someone die and keep the camera rolling, I can tell you that between 1964 and 1968 this was the version on TV, before anyone had color TV or VHS machines. > > In fact I registered for this forum today in order to make this post. Your memory comes from sometime in the 1960s between 1964 and 1968, which: 1. is a long period of time to be exact about a specific memory and 2. definitely not before anyone had color television. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-development-in-wizard-of-oz-hanging/593775/51 "2016-10-04T20:04:35Z")
Seeing something doesn’t mean it’s actually there. Read about [pareidolia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia) as just one of many examples of how the mind can create something that isn’t there. Note that several people can see sort of the same thing due to this. But that doesn’t confirm it. The overwhelming evidence given against there being any such event, OTOH, is extremely convincing. Plus just plain logic. “They left a body hanging in the background where hundreds of people could see it while they filmed? And then left the footage in???” It really doesn’t help to claim that there weren’t color TVs in [that era](http://www.tvobscurities.com/articles/color60s/). NBC was virtually _all_ color by 1965. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-development-in-wizard-of-oz-hanging/593775/52 "2016-10-04T21:18:29Z")
> [@astral](#): > > In fact I registered for this forum today in order to make this post. You wasted your time and effort. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-development-in-wizard-of-oz-hanging/593775/53 "2016-10-04T23:38:30Z")
Now now, silenus. If you think back you probably signed up because somebody on the internet was wrong. We all did. Of course, in my case the guy really was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-development-in-wizard-of-oz-hanging/593775/54 "2016-10-05T01:50:45Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > . . . Memory is a funny thing. You might want to search for and skim through the thread here on the “alternate ending to the movie _Big_.” . . . I’ll go to my grave sure that I saw a scene, now missing, from John Wayne in “The Quiet Man,” where he refuses to drink with the big bully Irishman, thus earning the man’s enmity, rather than just having it come about for no apparent reason. Well, no, I won’t, because I agree with you about how memory is fickle. I think I saw that scene…but, y’know, I really probably didn’t! ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-development-in-wizard-of-oz-hanging/593775/55 "2016-10-05T02:35:39Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I’ll go to my grave sure that I saw a scene, now missing, from John Wayne in “The Quiet Man,” where he refuses to drink with the big bully Irishman, thus earning the man’s enmity, rather than just having it come about for no apparent reason. > > Well, no, I won’t, because I agree with you about how memory is fickle. I think I saw that scene…but, y’know, I really probably didn’t! One that bugs me is from _The Truman Show_. When I saw it in the theater, I’d swear there was a long pause in Ed Harris’ line: Truman: “Who are you?” Christof: “I am the creator… of a television show…” …said pause being eliminated in every version I’ve seen since, including a DVD just a few months after seeing it on the big screen. Too touchy for the religious, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![qazwart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/5fc32e/32.png) [@qazwart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qazwart)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-development-in-wizard-of-oz-hanging/593775/56 "2016-10-05T13:46:44Z")
> [@astral](#): > > I am old enough to tell you I saw this on TV in the 1960s and it was a hanging person swaying back and forth from a tree. Snopes has an article about this [very thing](http://www.snopes.com/movies/films/ozsuicide.asp). Memory isn’t a permanent record of what happened. Every time we recall an event, we edit it and enhance it. We change details. Memory is very malleable and recalling something from over 50 years ago can be extremely difficult. Many people found the Wizard of Oz creepy. My wife told me it scared her when she was a little girl – even the munchkins were scary to her. It’d be easy to remember how creepy the movie may have been to you as a young kid, and then convince yourself that you saw a hanging body swinging from a tree in the background. Read through this thread and see what has been said: [ul] [li]The trees were not real. They even appear two dimensional. Can a cardboard tree support the weight of a swinging body.[/li][li]The video was a hoax. It was edited. As one post said, you can see the bird behind the edit.[/li][li]This must have been shot multiple times. If there was a body hanging on a tree, someone of the dozens of actors, stagehands, directors, and other people would have seen it.[/li][li]The actors walk right pass it and don’t seem to notice.[/li][/ul] Just logically, a hanging, swinging body from a tree couldn’t exist. For a quick take on the mailability of memory, see the episode [Adam Ruins Forensic Science](http://www.trutv.com/full-episodes/adam-ruins-everything/2065339/index.html). If you have more time, the [Adam Ruins Everything podcast with guest Elizabeth Loftus](http://www.maximumfun.org/adam-ruins-everything/adam-ruins-everything-episode-6-malleability-memory-loftus) goes into more detail. [Elizabeth Loftus](http://faculty.sites.uci.edu/eloftus/) is a professor at UCI who has done pioneering work in manipulating memory – especially in eye-witness testimony. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-development-in-wizard-of-oz-hanging/593775/57 "2016-10-05T13:59:53Z")
Heck, I even saw it in The Wiz! ---
**Author:** ![astral](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a698b9/32.png) [@astral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astral)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-development-in-wizard-of-oz-hanging/593775/58 "2016-10-11T15:03:04Z")
I realize memory is subjective, and recall a traumatic event in my past where I could not correctly describe my attacker in any detail, due to my extreme fear, except that he was small. In the early to mid 1960s kids just didnt spend very much time watching stuff on TVs. We had ABC, CBS, NBC, and that fuzzy channel that had Gilligans Island. Watching stuff we have seen already was pretty common. I was too young to even watch The Wizard of Oz without falling asleep. During this scene I remember standing there in front of the TV seeing the scary figure hanging from the tree as the characters walked off apparently not seeing it, all of which looked like part of the show, setting us up for scary things to come. I either asked my mom why it was there or wanted to, there was no one in the room with me. Believe me or not. I saw what I saw when I saw it, does it prove the hanging body was real, or a dead person, or that it wasn’t faked? I can not verify the story about why it was there. I am the most horrified at the thought that this legendary movie would have such a thing happen, and with the cameras rolling, and somewhere out there are people who know whether it is true. Honestly, I find it funny to have my memory about this debunked online, there is nothing more i can do about that. In real life I have seen people behave in ways that I would not expect in ‘those’ people. What this brings to light is the idea of people being moral cowards, and how can that possibly be? I am here to tell you, it certainly can be possible. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-development-in-wizard-of-oz-hanging/593775/59 "2016-10-11T15:40:37Z")
And we have already explained, repeatedly, why it is not. If you choose to ignore all the facts put forth and stick with your childhood memory then there isn’t much we can do to help you. edited to add: We have countered the claims you have made with facts, but you have not addressed anything we have put forth, except for saying “I don’t care-I know what I saw.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-development-in-wizard-of-oz-hanging/593775/60 "2016-10-11T16:38:35Z")
If you often fell asleep while watching it, then how do you know that what you’re remembering wasn’t actually a dream? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-development-in-wizard-of-oz-hanging/593775.md?page=2)