# New Diplomacy **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 23, 2002, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-diplomacy/138279 "2002-11-23T00:59:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Abe\_Babe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@Abe\_Babe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe_Babe)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-diplomacy/138279/1 "2002-11-23T00:59:38Z")
Having put in plenty of hours playing in various games, I want to GM a gain. It will be a slight variant in which Italy starts out with a fleet in Rome, rather than an army. It’s a very small change, but I am eager to see how it changes the beginning of the game. The way I see it, Russia is the only country not likely to see much in the way of changes. Who’s interested? E-mail me if you want to play. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-diplomacy/138279/2 "2002-11-23T01:04:28Z")
Me! I just finished my last Diplomacy game! Oh, wait, I have a two-week old daughter. Maybe in a few months… ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-diplomacy/138279/3 "2002-11-23T01:13:32Z")
Of course I’m in. ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Babe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@Abe\_Babe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe_Babe)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-diplomacy/138279/4 "2002-11-23T01:14:01Z")
You’ll be amazed at how easy it is to Diplome with your newborn in your arm sitting at the computer. She just cares that she gets to sleep in your lap. She doesn’t care what you’re doing, as long as you are her warm daddy. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-diplomacy/138279/5 "2002-11-23T01:15:09Z")
Yo, I’m game. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-diplomacy/138279/6 "2002-11-23T03:01:16Z")
You mean…I might actually get to play in a game? Wow! I hope I remember how! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-diplomacy/138279/7 "2002-11-23T11:40:01Z")
Count me in, too! Back in the early 1970s, before any of the people I’d played with had even heard of variants, I suggested to my buddies that Italy ought to be given the option of a F Rome - that it was more of a maritime power, like England. My suggestion was greeted with hoots of derision. So you bet I’d like to be in this game. Hey **Dave** , how soon we forget! You were England in Free State 10(W-)40, which I GMed. **I** ’m the one who hasn’t played in awhile. Of course, in 1040, you were stuck off in a corner in a limited role for most of the game, like a mad grandmother in the attic, but you gotta admit, that’s reasonable. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Babe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@Abe\_Babe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe_Babe)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-diplomacy/138279/8 "2002-11-23T12:33:47Z")
If I was stuck in the attic, I’d be pretty mad too. I have also heard from McGee (aka **ppg\_shg** who is interested. That would seem to make Weirddave Jonathan Chance RTFirefly Omniscient However, Omni is the only one who has sent an e-mail. I’ll accept the thread application of you DC area lot, but will request email confirmations from you and anyone else who wants in. If the turnout is much larger, I would consider running a larger variant, such as Aberration (the only other one I’ve played) ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-diplomacy/138279/9 "2002-11-23T12:57:26Z")
I sent an email. Go check! And Dave is currently getting his ass handed to him at: [http://www.wooleysark.com/dip/1019](http://www.wooleysark.com/dip/1019) He’s Russia, if you’re wondering. And by no means would I want to touch an aberration variant. I’d like to finish the game before I’m not allowed to collect social security. You have been warned. ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Babe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@Abe\_Babe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe_Babe)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-diplomacy/138279/10 "2002-11-23T17:19:31Z")
Perhaps not Aberration, but modern Diplomacy, or other 9 power variant. ---
**Author:** ![White\_Lightning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@White\_Lightning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Lightning)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-diplomacy/138279/11 "2002-11-23T21:23:50Z")
Email sent. Will you be assigning Powers randomly, or accepting preference lists? Because I have preferences. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2002, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-diplomacy/138279/12 "2002-11-24T00:45:09Z")
Do you get nuclear weapons in Modern Diplomacy? Do you get to start brush fire wars using third world countries as pawns? Also, in this variant game that **Abe** is suggesting, will everyone want to be Italy, or will Austria and France suddenly become popular? ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2002, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-diplomacy/138279/13 "2002-11-24T00:50:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \* > \*\*And Dave is currently getting his ass handed to him at: > > [http://www.wooleysark.com/dip/1019](http://www.wooleysark.com/dip/1019) > > He’s Russia, if you’re wondering. > \*\* He seems to be doing slightly better than Spain or Germany. ---
**Author:** ![White\_Lightning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@White\_Lightning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Lightning)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2002, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-diplomacy/138279/14 "2002-11-24T01:46:37Z")
Only a maniac would purposely choose to play France in a Fleet Rome. IMHO. I’m requesting Austria, for the record. I have an excuse, though – I’m assigned Austria in the WM Tourney, so I can use the practice. My analysis, based on no evidence whatever, is that the major impacts of Fleet Rome would be hurting France and helping Austria. Minor impacts include helping England and hurting Turkey. I figure it should have some impact on Germany but I can’t really think of what it might be. Maybe a negative one due to stronger F/E alliances because the French stab of England isn’t quite such a walkover if F has to commit naval power to the South early? That may be stretching it, though, as Italy almost always has 2 fleets by S02 anyway. But those are my thoughts, anyway. I’d bump A and E up my preference list and F and T down. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2002, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-diplomacy/138279/15 "2002-11-24T03:08:01Z")
Ah, but does it make Italy more attractive or merely more interesting? ---
**Author:** ![White\_Lightning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@White\_Lightning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Lightning)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2002, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-diplomacy/138279/16 "2002-11-24T04:06:48Z")
Personally I wouldn’t want to play Italy in such a variant because of the pressure to perform. I’m sure it makes Italy stronger, though. ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Babe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@Abe\_Babe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe_Babe)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2002, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-diplomacy/138279/17 "2002-11-24T17:49:05Z")
It looks like the current roster is \*\*RTFirefly, ppg\_shg Jonathan Chance Weirddave Steve Enzor White Lightning Omniscient Get some country preferences in, folks, so you can get dipping over the vacation. RT is sending me his super-secret country assigner, so I’ll notify people as soon as possible. Now I gotta start checking out that Realpolitik gismo. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2002, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-diplomacy/138279/18 "2002-11-24T17:55:15Z")
Y’know JC, I’m still alive in a game where I was down to 3 SCs early, and no real dipping has taken place for the last 20 turns or so, the game is moving relentlessly towards a stalemate,_as you well know_:p. I’ll be Italy in the new game, Abe, does that work? If not, then R,E,A,T,F,G in that order. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2002, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-diplomacy/138279/19 "2002-11-25T14:25:44Z")
Country prefs inbound, chief. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2002, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-diplomacy/138279/20 "2002-11-25T17:42:50Z")
My take on the effects of F Rome: 1. Italy can’t move _both_ fleets to Tys in Spring 1901. So it’s F Nap-Ion as usual, and F Rom-Tys. 2. In F01, Italy has to choose between east and west. **West** involves F Ion-Tun, F Tys-Lyo (or Wes), and quite possibly A Ven-Pie, making France’s life difficult. This makes it more important for France to nail down Iberia in 1901, giving France less freedom to go after Belgium or do an anti-England opening gambit. **East** involves F Tys-Tun, F Ion-Gre (or F Ion S someone else - Gre). At any rate, it makes Italy a potential player for Greece, right off the bat. This makes life more interesting for both Turkey and Austria. 3a) Meanwhile, Italy only has one army. So Italy’s much less in a position to join in a ‘dogpile on Austria’ opening by attacking Trieste and Vienna than usual. 3b) Similarly, while Italy can still get to Munich in 1901, he doesn’t have the Roman army to move to Venice and then Tyrolia to help preserve his conquest. So it reduces the threat to Germany from the south. So here’s my winners and losers: Losers are France and Turkey, for the reasons I’ve set out, and because Italy’s much more present in the Med, much more quickly, to the detriment of both. The winners are more complicated. Austria wins a bit more than it loses - less chance of land attack from Italy is partly made up for by Italy’s potentially joining the fray over Greece. Germany gains by not really having to worry about Italy in 1901, and by France having to worry about Italy, which means Germany doesn’t have to worry about France. England gains because France has to worry about Italy from the get-go, and so England has less worry about a quick attack from France. And Italy gains because it’s able to assert an active role in the Med from the beginning, and has the potential of picking up two initially unowned bases in 1901. Russia roughly breaks even, I think: Austria’s a little stronger, Turkey’s a little weaker, and England’s stronger but in a way that gives England more room to contest for the Lowlands early. So IMHO all the central powers come out ahead, while the only corner country helped out by this variant is England. If I wasn’t playing England in the first round of WorldMasters, I think England would be my country preference here. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-diplomacy/138279.md?page=2)