# New discussion thread for Israel/Gaza/West Bank (Hijacks tolerated) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war, hijacks-tolerated\ **Created:** [July 12, 2026, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615 "2026-07-12T00:17:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/335 "2026-09-01T14:33:53Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > … … … I asked if anyone did anything to stop Hamas’ attempts at ethnically cleansing Jews from Israel, not whether anyone virtue signaled. …I’ve answered that question. > [@Babale](#): > > No, _ **Israel** _ took the appropriate response - kinetically - while the UN and the ICC wagged their fingers, mostly at Israel. Israel are illegally occupying Palestine, committing ethnic cleansing in the West Bank and genocide in Gaza. The ICC SHOULD be wagging their fingers at Israel. But in this case, the ICC wagged their finger more strongly at Hamas than at Israel. > [@Babale](#): > > An ICC arrest warrant, especially for a terrorist who isn’t going to any non-terrorist-supporting country in the first place, is less than worthless. I answered your question. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/336 "2026-09-01T14:36:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is an excellent example of why and how atrocities seem so easy and acceptable to Israelis these days – a complete inability, unwillingness, or lack of interest in separating millions of civilians from the actions of a tiny minority. Demonstrably not true. Major Israeli newspapers and well established reporters speak openly and critically about the current Israeli government and the plight of Palestinians in Gaza and West Bank. Many Israeli civil rights advocates have openly criticized the IDF for specific war crimes, including killing of children and reporters. We don’t hear much criticism of Hamas from Palestinians. I can certainly understand how that would be dangerous for the average peaceful Palestinian wanting to live their life in safety. Lot’s of pictures of military-age Palestinian Martyrs over the years though. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/337 "2026-09-01T15:09:09Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > We don’t hear much criticism of Hamas from Palestinians. There are fortunately a number of vocally anti Hamas Palestinians, like Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib. > **[Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib (@afalkhatib) on X](https://x.com/afalkhatib)** > > Geopolitics & MidEast; Pro-Palestine, anti-Hamas; Proud American; Gaza native; Director @rfpalestine; Member @CFR\_org; Senior Fellow @AtlanticCouncil Unfortunately as you note it is not particularly safe for them either in Palestinian territories or abroad. Alkhatib gets frequent death threats from people who, ironically, claim to be “Pro-Palestinian”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/338 "2026-09-01T15:22:30Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Demonstrably not true. Major Israeli newspapers and well established reporters speak openly and critically about the current Israeli government and the plight of Palestinians in Gaza and West Bank. Many Israeli civil rights advocates have openly criticized the IDF for specific war crimes, including killing of children and reporters. Okay, I should have said “many Israelis”. Maybe most, though I’m not sure of the latest opinion polls. The larger point remains – at the moment, Israel is the one in control, and the one allowing and causing atrocities. Israel is the side that, at the moment, needs to change course. There’s no “Palestinian” course right now to change, since Palestinians are in control of nothing. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/339 "2026-09-01T15:22:52Z")
Obviously a Mossad dis-information agent. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/340 "2026-09-01T15:24:45Z")
You seem to be joking, but that’s precisely the conspiracy theory that the “pro”-Palestine “supporters” use to justify sending death threats to a Palestinian. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/341 "2026-09-01T15:44:59Z")
The “but Hamas” stuff doesn’t work anymore, not after knowing how hard Netanyahu and allies worked for years and years to materially aid Hamas, and kneecap more moderate alternatives, thinking that Hamas is the best partner against a two-state solution. Even after Oct 7th they’re functionally allies in the “endless war” party. Peace is the last thing Hamas wants, and the last thing this Israeli government wants. You can see it in the West Bank too – settlers and their government allies are engaging and encouraging more and more violence, because they desperately want a violent Palestinian response to “justify” more crackdowns, more settlements, and more violence. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/342 "2026-09-01T16:08:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Okay, I should have said “many Israelis”. Maybe most, though I’m not sure of the latest opinion polls. A fairly large opinion poll will be held in Israel this fall. We will have a better idea then about some v. most. Given the nature of Israeli politics, the answer will most likely be a plurality rather than a majority. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The larger point remains – at the moment, Israel is the one in control, and the one allowing and causing atrocities. Israel is the side that, at the moment, needs to change course. There’s no “Palestinian” course right now to change, since Palestinians are in control of nothing. Israel left Gaza in 2005, taking with them even the bodies out of Jewish cemeteries. Hamas has proven itself over and over to be untrustworthy as a peace partner in Gaza since 2005, culminating in Oct. 7 attack on Israel. While there is very little that non-combatant Palestinians can offer Israel as assurance of their desire to live in peace, there is something very substantive that Hamas Palestinians can offer in exchange for peace for the rest of their countrymen, women and children. I’m in agreement with you that in many many instances, the IDF has been unnecessarily brutal in its retaliation. I agree with you that Netanyahu and his ethno-fascist supporters in government and the West Bank deserve to be brought to justice for their crimes and for being complete assholes. I’m not optimistic that they will face the kind of punishment they truly deserve, but certain members of this board are writing strongly worded letters as we speak. However, if we are talking about the best possible outcome for Palestinians, out of what is admittedly a very bad situation, the unconditional surrender of Hamas and acceptance of living side by side with people they have considered to be their enemy for most of recorded history, that is their remaining best option. That is the agency they can exhibit now. The alternative is continued misery. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/343 "2026-09-01T16:15:53Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > acceptance of living side by side with people they have considered to be their enemy for most of recorded history Who? You think settlers and Ben Gvir and Netanyahu and more (i.e. _the Israelis actually in charge right now_) would live “side by side” in peace with Palestinians? Just as much as Hamas, those assholes need to surrender, disarm, and step down. There’s no possibility of peace with them in power. They’re making that more and more clear every day. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/344 "2026-09-01T16:16:57Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Who? You think settlers and Ben Gvir and Netanyahu and more (i.e. _the Israelis actually in charge right now_) would live “side by side” in peace with Palestinians? No I do not and I’ve repeatedly said so. I’ll say it again if you think it will help. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/345 "2026-09-01T16:18:11Z")
So you agree, then, that it’s not remotely an option at present. Right? That wouldn’t remotely end the “continued misery”. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/346 "2026-09-01T16:20:12Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > However, if we are talking about the best possible outcome for Palestinians, out of what is admittedly a very bad situation, the unconditional surrender of Hamas and acceptance of living side by side with people they have considered to be their enemy for **most of recorded history,** that is their remaining best option. That is the agency they can exhibit now. The alternative is continued misery. You keep saying things like this which are obviously false. Zionist apologists promote this narrative of “Oh, those crazy religious people, they’ve been fighting for centuries, nothing to be done about it”. But in fact the current conflict is literally _the first time in history_ that Jews and Muslims have been fighting over Palestine, and the first time in 2000 years that Jews have been involved in any military conflict with anyone. The Jews originally lost sovereignty over Palestine before Islam even existed. Then there were the Crusades, with Christians fighting Muslims (and also murdering thousands of Jews along the way, an often underappreciated aspect of the history). A small and intensely religious Jewish community survived all the Roman oppression and remained in Palestine, living peacefully alongside their neighbors for almost 2000 years. Then the Zionists abandoned Judaism in favor of secularist racism, invaded the area and started the current troubles. The problem is not Judaism or Islam, the problem is ethno-nationalist hatred cloaking itself in the guise of religion. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/347 "2026-09-01T16:25:02Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > A fairly large opinion poll will be held in Israel this fall. We will have a better idea then about some v. most. Given the nature of Israeli politics, the answer will most likely be a plurality rather than a majority. The elections will change nothing. There is no party which has a chance of winning which is calling for withdrawal from Gaza, prosecution of war criminals and inciters to genocide, and speedy movement toward Palestinian statehood. At most they might get a government which isn’t openly corrupt and anti-democratic, which would be nice for Israelis but won’t affect their foreign policy. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/348 "2026-09-01T16:26:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So you agree, then, that it’s not remotely an option at present. Right? No I do not. The only least-bad option available to Palestinians right now, in this moment, is to encourage their fellow Palestinians who are Hamas to unconditionally surrender. Other, far greater powers, have capitulated when faced with the choice to surrender or continued misery and death. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/349 "2026-09-01T16:28:56Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > But in fact the current conflict is literally _the first time in history_ that Jews and Muslims have been fighting over Palestine, and the first time in 2000 years that Jews have been involved in any military conflict with anyone. First, you are incorrect - Muhammad (or whatever actual historical figure inspired the Muhammad narrative) conquered and subjugated the Jewish Arab tribes in the region, ethnically cleansing them: > **[Battle of Khaybar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khaybar)** > > The Battle of Khaybar (Arabic: غزوة خيبر, romanized: Ghazwatu Khaybar) was an armed confrontation between the early Muslims and the Jewish community of Khaybar in 628 CE. Khaybar, which is located approximately 150 kilometres (93 mi) to the northwest of Medina, was home to a sizable community of Jewish tribes. As Muhammad's army began to march on Khaybar, the Banu Ghatafan and other Jewish-allied Arabian tribes did not, or could not, send the reinforcements that had been expected to arrive to ... And the paucity of military conflicts involving Jews since then is only because for the rest of the time since Islam’s existence and conquest of the region in the 7th century, it’s been a one-sided series of massacres, pogroms, and slaughters of Jews. It’s not like Jews were living peaceful wonderful lives free from oppression during that time. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/350 "2026-09-01T16:29:14Z")
So you think everyday Palestinians should seek out members of a murderous death cult and encourage their surrender? While fanatical settlers and IDF butchers continue to murder, brutalize, and violate their rights? That’s your plan? Maybe they should wish for puppy dogs and unicorns while they’re at it? But let’s suppose they do it. Let’s suppose everyday Palestinians tell Hamas to surrender. Do you think Hamas would then surrender? If they surrendered, do you think the fanatical settlers and IDF butchers and their government supporters _who are essentially on record as wanting more war and bloodshed_ would then stop the murdering and brutalizing and violation of rights? If they didn’t, what do you suggest after that? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/351 "2026-09-01T16:30:25Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > There is no party which has a chance of winning which is calling for withdrawal from Gaza, Considering how withdrawal from Gaza in 2005 worked out, that seems completely reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/352 "2026-09-01T16:31:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Maybe they should wish for puppy dogs and unicorns while they’re at it? They may as well try. They may have better luck. After all, they’ve been wishing for Jews to get off their land for generations and look how that’s worked out for them. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/353 "2026-09-01T16:31:57Z")
I added a late edit: But let’s suppose they do it. Let’s suppose everyday Palestinians tell Hamas to surrender. Do you think Hamas would then surrender? If they surrendered, do you think the fanatical settlers and IDF butchers and their government supporters _who are essentially on record as wanting more war and bloodshed until all the Palestinians leave or are dead_ would then stop the murdering and brutalizing and violation of rights? If they didn’t, what do you suggest after that? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/354 "2026-09-01T16:32:56Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > They may as well try. They may have better luck. After all, they’ve been wishing for Jews to get off their land for generations and look how that’s worked out for them They have absolutely no incentive to try so long as they can keep getting support from naive Westerners while launching war of annihilation after war of annihilation against Israel. Maybe the 20th time will be the charm. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615.md?page=18)