# New discussion thread for Israel/Gaza/West Bank (Hijacks tolerated) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war, hijacks-tolerated\ **Created:** [July 12, 2026, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615 "2026-07-12T00:17:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/395 "2026-09-01T18:51:20Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > They first asked us what we thought about Sabra and Shatila before they proceeded to throw hands and kick us. Good times. That sucks, and the assholes who attacked you are to blame for their actions. But – do you think such attacks would be more or less likely if mainstream Jewish organizations hadn’t spent the last several decades telling people that all Jews love Israel and anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/396 "2026-09-01T18:57:30Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I thought it would be clear that A, B, C were just funny asides and that D and what followed would be the more relevant illustration of what I was trying to convey. That should be all the more reason for Israel to refrain for causing and allowing atrocities, and should make us even more angry than otherwise at Israel for doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/397 "2026-09-01T19:00:27Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > You literally just said a few posts up that you couldn’t find a way to discuss the Talmudic teachings relating to violent resistance outside the Pit. Huh? No, that’s not at all what I said. What I can’t discuss outside the Pit are my thoughts on the whitewashing of Jewish oppression and the idea that being oppressed and suffering is somehow virtuous. I don’t reject the Torah or the Talmud. Jewish texts are full of wisdom and context about the history if the Jewish people. There is a ton of value in the corpus of Jewish texts, both religious and secular, that the Jewish people created over the years. That corpus is my birthright every bit as much as it is yours or Ben Gvir’s, and I don’t need to accept it as the literal Word of God for that to be true. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > But I don’t agree that somehow religious Jews are forbidden to have or express opinions about those choices. Lior Schlein is a Liberal, so I certainly don’t think his position is that religious Jews (or anyone else) should be forbidden from holding or expressing opinions. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > So I agree with you that Zionism represents as radical a break with Rabbinic Judaism as Rabbinic Judaism did with Temple Judaism. I just don’t think it’s a step in the _right_ direction. To each their own. I think the results speak for themselves. In the European side of my family, every non-Zionist Jew died. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/398 "2026-09-01T19:01:30Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > But – do you think such attacks would be more or less likely if mainstream Jewish organizations hadn’t spent the last several decades telling people that all Jews love Israel and anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism? I submit that it’s irrelevant. I accept that anecdotes are not data, but having been born and partly raised in the USSR (Ukraine, specifically), I can assure you that anti-Semitism was a well established feature of society and anti-Zionism was never mentioned in any context. If anything, Israel being the ‘proper place for Jews’ was a common sentiment expressed. Of course, being free to leave the USSR for Jews was the tricky bit at the time. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/399 "2026-09-01T19:05:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That should be all the more reason for Israel to refrain for causing and allowing atrocities, and should make us even more angry than otherwise at Israel for doing so. Well, you go on ahead and be angry with Israel. It’s been my lived experience that it won’t win you any “oh, he’s one of the good Jews” credits. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/400 "2026-09-01T19:08:19Z")
I’m worried about doing the right thing - for Jews and for humans in general, not what kind of Jew others see me as. YMMV. If you’re not angry with Israel, then that tells me something about what kind of person you are. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/401 "2026-09-01T19:10:00Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Huh? No, that’s not at all what I said. What I can’t discuss outside the Pit are my thoughts on the whitewashing of Jewish oppression and the idea that being oppressed and suffering is somehow virtuous. But that idea is _absolutely central_ to traditional Rabbinic Judaism. We were exiled for our sins, and we need to endure patiently until the time for redemption comes. You have radically broken with Jewish tradition, and nice words about how our religious texts are “full of wisdom” with “a ton of value” (just like everyone else’s religious texts) can’t whitewash that. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/402 "2026-09-01T19:10:02Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > It’s been my lived experience that it won’t win you any “oh, he’s one of the good Jews” credits. Didn’t you hear? The ‘good Jews’ know that [they need to place the needs of the world above their own survival.](https://jewishinsider.com/2026/08/dana-nessel-jewish-safety-survival-el-sayed-michigan/) If that’s what it takes to be a ‘good Jew’, I’ll pass. I’d rather be a Jew who fights back, even if Golda Meir was right about the world’s opinion of that type of Jew. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/403 "2026-09-01T19:11:24Z")
Kind of sick that any Jew who displays a modicum of ethics and basic human decency is accused of doing so only in order to suck up to the goyim. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/404 "2026-09-01T19:12:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If you’re not angry with Israel, then that tells me something about what kind of person you are. I’m angry with very specific types of individuals living in Israel and their lack of humanity and decency. I’m not angry at the entire fucking country. I’ve said that multiple times throughout this thread and you not being acknowledge that reminds me of the type of person you are. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/405 "2026-09-01T19:18:46Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > But that idea is _absolutely central_ to traditional Rabbinic Judaism. We were exiled for our sins, and we need to endure patiently until the time for redemption comes. So is the idea that a woman cannot get a divorce without the consent of her husband. I think if God didn’t want us to have a country, we wouldn’t have been able to get one in 1948. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > You have radically broken with Jewish tradition, I know - that’s what happen when you mix Liberalism with _any_ religion. People who haven’t radically broken with their religious traditions are backwards fundamentalists. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Kind of sick that any Jew who displays a modicum of ethics and basic human decency is accused of doing so only in order to suck up to the goyim. By “a modicum of ethics and basic human decency” you mean “said that Jewish people need to place the ‘needs of the world’ above their own survival”? Because that’s exactly, literally, what she did. If you think that I need to deprioritize my own _survival_ and the _survival of my people_ in order to demonstrate a ‘modicum of ethics and basic human decency’, you and I will never see eye to eye. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/406 "2026-09-01T19:19:19Z")
I’m angry at Israel in the same way I’m angry at the US – we and they are allowing our governments to commit atrocities in our name, causing mass suffering and death, and doing serious long term damage to our countries and futures and reputations. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/407 "2026-09-01T19:19:59Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’m not angry at the entire fucking country. Some people just can’t separate the actions of a few extremists from a wider population of millions of people. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/408 "2026-09-01T19:20:58Z")
The elected government and military of Israel (and the US, for that matter) aren’t “a few extremists”. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/409 "2026-09-01T19:23:58Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Some people just can’t separate the actions of a few extremists from a wider population of millions of people. Nonsense. Of course they can. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The Palestinian people and Hamas are two mostly separate groups. They’re just very selective about it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/410 "2026-09-01T19:27:20Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > They’re just very selective about it. I’d invite you to, specifically, quote the post in which you think I’m not properly separating the actions of “a few extremists” from a wider population. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/411 "2026-09-01T19:27:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The elected government and military of Israel (and the US, for that matter) aren’t “a few extremists”. Wait… the entire IDF (and the US military, for that matter) are ‘extremists’? I’ll be sure to tell my son how disappointed I am in him when he’s back from deployment. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/412 "2026-09-01T19:28:19Z")
Right now, their leadership are extremists. Do you disagree? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/413 "2026-09-01T19:28:47Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Wait… the entire IDF (and the US military, for that matter) are ‘extremists’? Not to mention ex-IDF, which is basically everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/414 "2026-09-01T19:30:55Z")
I don’t know what you’re talking about, because you posted a link that requires registration to read. I would say that “placing the needs of the world above your own survival”, although admirable, represents an extremely high level of moral development that it would be unrealistic to expect most people to attain. Condemning Israel’s current actions in Gaza on the other hand, definitely requires only a bare modicum of ethics and basic human decency. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615.md?page=21)