# New discussion thread for Israel/Gaza/West Bank (Hijacks tolerated) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war, hijacks-tolerated\ **Created:** [July 12, 2026, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615 "2026-07-12T00:17:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/415 "2026-09-01T19:31:08Z")
Plenty of decent IDF vets, such as these former generals who explicitly compare current Israeli behavior towards Palestinians to the Holocaust: [https://www.nytimes.com/2026/08/31/world/middleeast/west-bank-israel.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2026/08/31/world/middleeast/west-bank-israel.html) Non-paywall link: [https://archive.ph/4rPFw](https://archive.ph/4rPFw) ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/416 "2026-09-01T19:34:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Right now, their leadership are extremists. Do you disagree? I do not. But I expect you’ll continue to selectively ignore what I say. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/417 "2026-09-01T19:34:37Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I do not. But I expect you’ll continue to selectively ignore what I say. I invite you to quote, specifically, where you believe I’ve “selectively ignored” what you say. I believe I’ve been very careful with my words. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/418 "2026-09-01T19:34:57Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > I don’t know what you’re talking about, because you posted a link that requires registration to read. > [@](#): > > Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel, a Jewish Democrat, encouraged Jewish voters on Sunday to put aside concerns about their safety “in exchange for the opportunity to save the rest of humanity,” in a stark reference to the choices facing Jewish Democrats in the closely contested Senate election this November. > > “We have a moral imperative to place the needs of the world above even our own self-interest and, yes, even our own survival,” Nessel told attendees in her remarks at the Michigan Democratic Jewish Caucus’ annual “Summer Simcha” gathering, where she was honored, according to reports confirmed by Jewish Insider. > > … > > In her speech on Sunday, Nessel alluded to Queen Esther, the biblical heroine of the Jewish holiday of Purim, in a dramatic illustration of the high stakes of the race. > > “It is perhaps up to us now to follow in her path,” Nessel said, “and sacrifice the comfort, safety and security and even the very future of our own people in exchange for the opportunity to save the rest of humanity.” (In the Purim story, however, Queen Esther risked her own life to save the Jews rather than putting aside Jewish safety for a supposed greater good.) It’s not that I necessarily disagree with her conclusion, but the argument she uses to get there is pretty fucking vile. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/419 "2026-09-01T19:38:05Z")
Sure, there are a lot of good and decent people in Israel. But they are a minority and all demographic trends indicate they will continue to shrink. Israeli liberals seem to have a unique ability to maintain denial about this. American liberals are losing their shit and fearing for the future of the country because Trump won a couple of elections, and appropriately so. But Israeli liberals keep getting their face shoved in the dirt election after election and continue to insist that everything is fine. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/420 "2026-09-01T19:41:31Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > But Israeli liberals keep getting their face shoved in the dirt election after election and continue to insist that everything is fine. You are once again profoundly incorrect about internal Israeli politics, unless you consider many months of mass protests that dwarf (relative to the population of course) US anti Trump protests to be “insist[ing] everything is fine”: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/24/israel-protests-judicial-overhaul/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/24/israel-protests-judicial-overhaul/) ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/421 "2026-09-01T19:43:04Z")
Well, either she’s an idiot or the Jewish Insider is quoting her out of context. Either possibility seems plausible to me. How exactly does sacrificing our own people’s future lead to saving the rest of humanity? ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/422 "2026-09-01T19:44:06Z")
Those were protests against Netanyahu’s judicial overhaul plan, not against the war and the occupation. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/423 "2026-09-01T19:45:24Z")
Nor against the unprosecuted IDF rape, settler violence, supremacist assertions of Israeli officials like Ben-Gvir and Smotrich, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/424 "2026-09-01T19:53:50Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > How exactly does sacrificing our own people’s future lead to saving the rest of humanity? She argued that we should vote for a Democrat who supports abolishing Israel or whose actions and rhetoric lead to increased anti-semitism (I am not arguing that this is true of actual Democrat candidates, in her argument she was stating that possibility as a given and I am responding accordingly) over a Republican because electing a republican would make the whole world uninhabitable. > [@](#): > > “What good is defending the historic homeland of our ancestors and demanding that candidates acknowledge its right to exist, if the planet upon which it rests is no longer inhabitable?” she said to attendees at the event in Birmingham on Sunday. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/425 "2026-09-01T19:56:08Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Those were protests against Netanyahu’s judicial overhaul plan, not against the war and the occupation. …I know? What a strange non-sequitor? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/426 "2026-09-01T20:00:13Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Those were protests against Netanyahu’s judicial overhaul plan, not against the war and the occupation. If I’m not mistaken, overhauling the judiciary would have helped Netanyahu avoid criminal charges. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/427 "2026-09-01T20:12:38Z")
I have mentioned this several times before - the US aid to Israel is a small portion of the IDFs budget, the big ticket items are missile defense systems. If the USA stopped military aid to Israel they could easily continue their activities in Gaza. But of course some people will not listen or care. The USA really has little control over what Israel does in Gaza. So, choosing a American candidate based on their preferences there is meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/428 "2026-09-01T22:15:09Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > And this is dangerous and poisonous thinking. Meant to respond to this earlier. Jews in the diaspora ought not live their lives in paranoid fear of antisemites hiding behind every bush, nor should they spend their time virtue signaling to the world their moral outrage and deep disapproval for shit “Israel is doing!”. Neither one will be the thing that saves them _if_ a pogrom. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/429 "2026-09-01T23:25:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > If the USA stopped military aid to Israel they could easily continue their activities in Gaza. …then the USA can stop all military aid tomorrow. Israel obviously doesn’t need it. > [@DrDeth](#): > > The USA really has little control over what Israel does in Gaza. The Gaza Peace Plan was literally unveiled by the President of the United States of America. Steve Witkoff and the President’s son in law were central to negotiations. Kushner even has a plan for a “New Gaza.” [https://www.npr.org/2026/02/02/nx-s1-5694656/jared-kushner-new-gaza-plan](https://www.npr.org/2026/02/02/nx-s1-5694656/jared-kushner-new-gaza-plan) _" “We’ve already started removing the rubble and doing some of the demolition,” Jared Kushner, President Trump’s son-in-law, said while [presenting the plan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO4TCfP30VE) recently in Davos, Switzerland."_ Note the use of the word “_we_” here. As in they are already on the ground laying the groundwork. The idea that America “has little control” when they will be literally building on the graves of thousands of dead Palestinians is just absurd. > [@DrDeth](#): > > So, choosing a American candidate based on their preferences there is meaningless. I think there is a growing number of Americans who don’t want to vote for people that support a regime responsible for the Flour Massacres, for the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation Massacres, for the Paramedic Massacre, for the Nuseirat Massacre, for the Al Shifa Massacre, for the killing of Hind Rajab, for the murder of Refaat Alareer, for the deliberate targeting of journalists, medical workers, academics, and government workers, and for the ongoing blockade of the Gaza Strip. I think that, even if your claim about “having no impact” were true, that not voting to support what these monsters were responsible for is the morally right thing for people to do. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/430 "2026-09-01T23:32:10Z")
Some of us would prefer our taxes don’t go to help support atrocities. But it’s much more than that - we protect them diplomatically in the UN and elsewhere, share intel and tech, and more. The idea that our policies have no impact on Israeli actions is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2026, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/431 "2026-09-02T00:23:35Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Some of us would prefer our taxes don’t go to help support atrocities. Good- because they do not. Well, at least in Gaza, I mean what the current administration is doing with ICE is something else… > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The idea that our policies have no impact on Israeli actions is ridiculous. Of course they have _some_ impact. But not enough to make Netanyahu change what he is doing. And i agree, that crook is going too far. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2026, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/432 "2026-09-02T14:01:57Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Good- because they do not. There are many cited details of the atrocities I’m speaking of in this thread and others. Here’s Wikipedia on the subject: > **[Israeli war crimes in the Gaza war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes_in_the_Gaza_war?wprov=sfla1)** > > Background October 7 attacksMilitary engagements Civilian attacks Fingers in your ears denials aren’t going to convince anyone that they didn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2026, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/433 "2026-09-02T15:25:03Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > QED > > I know you didn’t mean to insult every “goy” following this thread. But you kinda did, bubelah. Wanted to come back to this and apologize to anyone who was offended. I was channeling the attitude of the classical rabbis, who lived in a much less civilized era. I certainly did not mean to imply that those negative beliefs about gentiles are generally appropriate today. Having said that, although it is antisemitic for other people to hold Jews to higher standards than they hold themselves to, holding _ourselves_ to higher standards than the average nation is very much the point of the exercise. Which cuts to the heart of the argument we’re having here: what are the Jewish people? Are we just another ethno-nationalist group, whose win condition is to establish our own nation-State? Or are we a people unique in history, a nation which shuns worldly power and whose win condition is to cultivate elevated moral and spiritual ideas in order to be an inspiration to the rest of humanity? ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2026, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/434 "2026-09-02T15:33:38Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I think it’s less about Zionism winning and more about how all of the Bundists who were talking about how important here-ness is died in gas chambers because here-ness in Europe turned out to be an epically shitty idea. I’m not talking about people who died in the Holocaust, I’m talking about the generation from about 1945 to 1970. During that time, the consensus of religious opinion across the denominational spectrum went from being skeptical of Zionism to embracing it. IMO, that was a tragic error comparable to the Shabbatai Tzvi debacle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615.md?page=22)