# New discussion thread for Israel/Gaza/West Bank (Hijacks tolerated) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war, hijacks-tolerated\ **Created:** [July 12, 2026, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615 "2026-07-12T00:17:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/515 "2026-09-03T15:35:34Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > You know a lot of American Reform Jews who can read directly from a Torah scroll? Who are familiar enough with Hebrew to know that it is written from right to left? Yes, I can’t think of a single Reform Jew who wouldn’t know that. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/516 "2026-09-03T15:37:17Z")
Knowing that it is written from right to left is not the same as actually knowing the alef-bet. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/517 "2026-09-03T15:39:46Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Knowing that it is written from right to left is not the same as actually knowing the alef-be True! You don’t need to actually know how to read and write Hebrew to be able to tell that those Seder plates ain’t right. Unless you’ve never seen a Seder plate in your life… And you definitely don’t need to know Hebrew to be able to count to 9. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/518 "2026-09-03T15:40:52Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > That sounds a lot like slander of the ADL. In my experience, they do amazing and very needed work calling out actual anti-Semites. Like excusing Elon Musk’s Nazi salutes? Like praising Trump? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/519 "2026-09-03T18:13:30Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > A modern, liberal, revitalized Jewish culture no longer dominated by regressive rabbis that has spread to the Diaspora as well? You mean, like i enjoy in the US? > [@Babale](#): > > Yes, places like Chabbad (although Chanbadniks in the US are a TON better about outreach to secular Jews without being dicks than Chanbadniks in Israel), but isn’t that part of the point? Secular Jews don’t go to these places in large part because they are often met with hostility My experience with Chabbadniks in the US has ranged from mildly annoying to welcoming. Never hostile. I’ve been to a Chabbad service, and to a bar mitzvah, and to a daughter’s 12th birthday party. I was invited to her wedding, too, but with about 4 days notice in another city, i just sent my best wishes. I hear there are parts of Jerusalem where i might be stoned for walking around wearing the wrong outfit. In Brooklyn, the kids just asked me about my (secular) music and my clothing choices. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > With the arguable exception of the Zionist movement itself, there are no large, sustainable organizations of American Jews that meet regularly to discuss and educate about secular culture and pass their secular Jewish identity on to their children. I mean, it depends on what you mean by secular, but my Reform synagogue is pretty light on “god”. Years ago, the then-Rabbi told my mother he always had to remember that about half his audience didn’t believe in God. > [@Babale](#): > > Zionism is the one form of secular Judaism that maintained the connection to the land, hence its success. Yeah… No. By and large, reform Jews don’t feel a huge connection to the land of Israel. I mean, it’s both more interesting and more welcoming than some graveyard in Poland, but when my husband refers to “the homeland” he means Brooklyn, NYC. > [@Babale](#): > > , I can think of exactly one Jewish American I know personally who does not have a strong connection with Israel. Whereas i, also, know tons of Jews and can think of two who, to my knowledge, have a strong connection to Israel. A friend in Chicago and my rabbi, who works hard to convince the congregation to visit and support Israel, with a little success, i think. But not among anyone i hang out with. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > is there anything you DO have to be or not be? Reform Judaism has an official opinion on that. I’ll look it up if anyone cares. > [@Babale](#): > > I know Reform Jews who would say _something_ at their Shiva, but it’s not in Aramaic and not a Kadish, We generally muddle through the kaddish. I even led a large group of mostly-non-Jewish friend through the kaddish in honor of my mother. I provided the original, a transliteration, and a translation, of course. (That being our habit.) The Episcopalian bishop was really interested in the text, and how God-centered it is. And despite my family being very secular, we discussed the value of saying, “I’m still here, I’m still part of the community, i still do community stuff” while mourning. > [@Babale](#): > > it’s more like a bunch of secular Jews engaging with Jewish culture and holidays and tying that to Israel in a whole host of ways. I honestly can’t imagine that, or what you are describing. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > As it happens, they were all raised Reform, don’t speak Hebrew and wouldn’t have noticed the backwards wording on the seder plate. Fwiw, i was raised reform, don’t speak Hebrew, and told my teacher that a photo of a piece of some ancient Hebrew text in our textbook was printed upside down. Backwards isn’t quite as obvious, but I’m pretty sure I’d notice that, too. > [@Babale](#): > > Do Reform Jews not have Torah scrolls? Do they not know how many candles a Menorah should have? The Reform Jews I know read from the same Torah and use the same Menorahs as other Jews. We do. Apparently, my temple plans to do a big group “write our own Torah scroll” this year. I think it’s mostly a fund raiser, but i need to look into it, because it would be kind of neat to have actually contributed by having written a letter or two in a kosher Torah scroll. Anyway, now that i don’t have to moderate this topic (the war in Gaza), I’d honestly prefer not to follow it. It’s depressing as hell and i feel helpless to do anything. But i am interested in modern definitions of Judaism and what holds Jews together. If there’s any interest in starting a thread about that in IMHO, I’d be happy to participate. And if there’s interest in moving the relevant posts from here to there, I’d be happy to do that, too, with the permission of the p&e mods. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/520 "2026-09-03T18:59:51Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Yeah… No. By and large, reform Jews don’t feel a huge connection to the land of Israel. Are you saying that Reform Judaism is “a form of secular Judaism”? I wouldn’t really call it that. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I honestly can’t imagine that, or what you are describing. I have a hard time imagining the opposite. Aside from like, Purim and Yom Kippur, the Jewish holidays are all about getting to Israel from Egypt, or doing agriculture in Israel, or taking the products of said agriculture to Jerusalem, commemorating times that people tried to kill us in Israel and failed (Purim being the notable exception)… How does one celebrate Passover or Shavuot or Sukkot or Hannukah without a focus on Israel? > [@puzzlegal](#): > > But i am interested in modern definitions of Judaism and what holds Jews together. If there’s any interest in starting a thread about that in IMHO, I’d be happy to participate. And if there’s interest in moving the relevant posts from here to there, I’d be happy to do that, too, with the permission of the p&e mods. That does sound more interesting! ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/521 "2026-09-03T19:26:59Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I have a hard time imagining the opposite. Aside from like, Purim and Yom Kippur, the Jewish holidays are all about getting to Israel from Egypt, or doing agriculture in Israel, or taking the products of said agriculture to Jerusalem, commemorating times that people tried to kill us in Israel and failed (Purim being the notable exception)… How does one celebrate Passover or Shavuot or Sukkot or Hannukah without a focus on Israel? Passover is, as the Haggadah says, about the journey from slavery to freedom. We don’t sing all of “it would have been enough”. I think we usually only do three verses, escape from Egypt, giving us the Sabbath, and giving us the Torah. We actually spend more time on “an only kid” and “who knows one”. Shavuot? I guess we don’t usually do anything for that one. We’ve just done passover. Sukkot? It’s the harvest festival! It usually falls during my local harvest season, and feels very rooted to my actual experience. We decorate with apples and pumpkins, and cover the booth with branches from whatever tree needs pruning, usually an oak, but sometimes a yew. We often celebrate that even though we’ve just celebrated the new year (Rosh Hashanah) and the day of atonement (Yom Kippur) Hannukah? That’s the cheap version of Christmas, right? But while it’s set in Israel, of course, it’s also about self-determination and about restoring freedom to practice religion and removing the idols from the sanctuary. I mean, yes, the story is about the sanctuary in Jerusalem, but as you probably know, we’ve had other places of worship for 2000+ years now. I’m a child of the diaspora. And as for “next year in Jerusalem”, we’ve been skipping that since the war. And before that, my mother loudly proclaimed, “next year in [name of city where my sister lives]”. We also celebrate the Sabbath (which probably originated as the Babylonian market day, but hey) and the new moon, which is also visible where i live. We also commemorate International Holocaust Remembrance Day. When i do celebrate Purim (my least favorite holiday) i try to avoid the genocide bit. But, “they tried to kill us. They failed. Let’s eat!” is a decent summary of a lot of our holidays. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/522 "2026-09-03T19:32:33Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Fwiw, i was raised reform, don’t speak Hebrew, and told my teacher that a photo of a piece of some ancient Hebrew text in our textbook was printed upside down. Backwards isn’t quite as obvious, but I’m pretty sure I’d notice that, too. Eh, I DO read Hebrew pretty well, but I’m not effortlessly fluent, and it still took me a minute to see what Babale was mocking about that seder plate; at first I thought he was saying the ritual items were arranged in the wrong order or something. (I assumed he wasn’t only talking about their numerous “innovative additions” to the traditional seder plate) In default mode, my brain just read the English words “Charoset”, “Bitter Herbs”, etc, noted the expected presence of Hebrew letters above, and moved on. If I hadn’t been specifically cued to look for errors, I’d just have wondered why they put a strawberry and a spoon and God knows what all on the seder plate, and quite likely not even noticed the Hebrew words were spelled backwards. But if they’d been upside down, I’m sure I would have noticed that immediately. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/523 "2026-09-03T19:38:05Z")
I admit to adding an orange to the Seder plate. But it’s otherwise pretty traditional. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/524 "2026-09-03T19:43:39Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Hannukah? That’s the cheap version of Christmas, right? But while it’s set in Israel, of course, it’s also about self-determination and about restoring freedom to practice religion and removing the idols from the sanctuary. I mean, yes, the story is about the sanctuary in Jerusalem, but as you probably know, we’ve had other places of worship for 2000+ years now. I’m a child of the diaspora. IME, American Hebrew schools tend to teach the Hanukkah story as a generic good-vs-evil parable without much to differentiate it from the Passover story. (“The cruel monarch [Pharaoh/Antiochus] tried to oppress us, but the hero [Moses/Judah Maccabee] led us to freedom!”) I’m told schools in Israel focus more on the actual history, though. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/525 "2026-09-03T19:59:51Z")
I saw one kids’ book about hannukah that called the bad guys “Syrians”. Like, it glossed over that it was Alexander’s empire that conquered Israel so as to link the story to modern conflicts in the Middle East. So, you know, there’s history and history… I’m pretty happy with the watered down “self determination, freedom of religion” version of the story. IMHO, the real meaning of hannukah is, “it’s cold and dark outside. Let’s light a rack of candles and gather with friends and family to eat rich food”. Hannukah is celebrated on the new moon closest to the winter solstice. It really is the darkest part of the year. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that most cultures in the northern hemisphere celebrate with light and rich food around then. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/526 "2026-09-03T20:22:49Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I saw one kids’ book about hannukah that called the bad guys “Syrians”. Really? In Hebrew or English? Not Seleucids or something (which would be the correct term)? I’ve only ever heard the simplistic “Greeks” and the specific “Seleucids”. That said, by this war, the Seleucid capital was moved to Antioch which is in Syria, and Googling “Antiochus the Syrian” brought up this Encyclopedia Brittanica article, which refers to the “Hellenistic Kingdom of Syria”: [https://www.britannica.com/biography/Antiochus-IV-Epiphanes](https://www.britannica.com/biography/Antiochus-IV-Epiphanes) The article talks about a conflict between the Seleucids and the Ptolemies and refers to them as “Syrians” and “Egyptians” respectively. I _have_ heard the polity ruled by the Ptolemies referred to as “Egypt” pretty often, although I think it’s more common to talk about them by the dynasty name (I guess that’s pretty common to the region - we see the same thing with the various Persian dynasties, as well as the various Caliphates). I suppose it’s no more incorrect to refer to the Seleucids as “Syrians” than it is to refer to the Ptolemies as “Egyptians” (and honestly, probably not much more incorrect than the simplistic “Greeks”). It depends on what you base the name on. The most specific name possible for the polity? Go with Seleucids and Ptolemies. The ethnic group of the elite class? They’re both Greeks. The geographic region the polity is in? I suppose that Syrians and Egyptians is right. I wonder if it’s a British-ism? If the book was in English, that could make sense. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Like, it glossed over that it was Alexander’s empire that conquered Israel Not quite, it was one of a number of successor state to Alexander’s empire. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/527 "2026-09-03T20:29:13Z")
It was in English, and i think it was published in the US. Seleucids wouldn’t have bothered me, except for maybe being an unfamiliar word to the age group the book was aimed at. But there are lots of other unfamiliar names, so that’s okay. They were also drawn to look Arab, not Greek. It was an intentional political act. Although i suppose the common soldiers were probably drawn from the local population. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/528 "2026-09-03T20:38:33Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > It was in English, and i think it was published in the US. Seleucids wouldn’t have bothered me, except for maybe being an unfamiliar word to the age group the book was aimed at. But there are lots of other unfamiliar names, so that’s okay. Doing more research, it seems like Syrian is an old fashioned term for the Seleucids (that just doesn’t have as much staying power as Egyptians for Ptolemies). For example, from the book “The Jews from Cyrus to Herod”: > [@](#): > > But Judas was not content. He had been able to restore the Temple worship. He had managed to assert his authority beyond Judza, but he had never been able to turn the Syrian garrison out of the Akra, the citadel which overlooked the Temple > [@puzzlegal](#): > > They were also drawn to look Arab, not Greek. It was an intentional political act. Although i suppose the common soldiers were probably drawn from the local population. I was going to say, the troops of Antiochus would have been locals, not Greeks shipped in from Greece 150 years after his polity no longer controlled any Greek territory. Although… I suppose this is at a time period when Anatolia _was_ populated mostly by Hellenic people. Do Greeks and Arabs really look all that different in a children’s book? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/529 "2026-09-03T21:09:00Z")
And more to the point, do Jews and Arabs look different in a children’s book? But yes, the bad guys were darker in color and… ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2026, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/530 "2026-09-03T22:08:41Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I was going to say, the troops of Antiochus would have been locals, not Greeks shipped in from Greece 150 years after his polity no longer controlled any Greek territory. The locals were [often Greeks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seleucid_army#Manpower). Seleucid armies (and all the Diadochid armies, really) were always very Hellenocentric. Non-Greeks were less well-trusted and more importantly considered less capable and useful. Greek military colonies were being established in the area as early as Alexander’s reign, witness [Samaria](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaria_(ancient_city)#Hellenistic_period:_Macedonian_military_colony). When Antiochus IV had his famous Grand Procession at Daphne in 166, the very large army of he paraded was probably at least 70% Greek. Some those listed like the 5,000 Galatian Celt mercenaries and the 1,000 Central Asian horse-archers (probably Parthian/Scythians mercenaries) were pretty explicitly non-Greek. But even other listed groups that could refer to non-Greeks like the 5,000 listed Mysian mercenaries and 3,000 Cilicians were quite likely drawn from Greek military colonies in those regions. Antiochus IV was active in establishing new Greek military colonies, another issue that contributed to the revolt. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/531 "2026-09-04T02:48:09Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Yeah… No. By and large, reform Jews don’t feel a huge connection to the land of Israel. I mean, it’s both more interesting and more welcoming than some graveyard in Poland, but when my husband refers to “the homeland” he means Brooklyn, NYC. I grew up in a VERY reform synagogue in the US (had a rabbi tell me she wasn’t sure if she believed in God) and so much of everything was about Israel. Got bar mitzvahed in 2004 for reference. The synagogue had a sister congregation in Israel. Parents putting their kids through sunday school hosted Israeli kids from a kibbutz for a few weeks. The temple did a bunch of organizing with brithright trips (I have no idea what the details of that were because I was one of an extremely small number who didn’t go). We learned about modern Israeli history in sunday school starting very young, I think 2nd or 3rd grade we did projects on different Prime Ministers. As we got older we had more “mature” topics which ranged from this kind of liberal both-sides “why can’t we have peace” stuff to why the Palestinians had rejected peace all of those times. Several times going to services the rabbi’s main sermon topic was Israel. The idea that Israel or zionism being what holds the community together still shouldn’t factor at all as far as the reality of Israel. Even taking things entirely prior to October 7, the state of Israel in the real world has had a long-standing policy of allowing settlers free reign and rejecting Palestinian right of return, and it’s extremely easy to see that these policies are in the name of zionism. While I don’t agree I at least understand people who think these are worth it because Israel needs to exist to save actual Jewish lives or just for self-defense of the existing Israeli population. But to factor this based on cohesion of communities across the ocean is [Omelas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ones_Who_Walk_Away_from_Omelas) thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/532 "2026-09-04T03:07:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The ONLY solution, the only one that can work, is what happened in Ireland- a cease of terrorist activities and coming to a peace agreement. Sorry, I not much of a student of history so I don’t recall that carpet bombing of Belfast and starving the populace being one of the key strategies the British used to bring the IRA to the bargaining table, maybe I was out that day. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/533 "2026-09-04T03:35:40Z")
Passover is, primarily, about freedom. We use our discussion of the mythic Exodus story as a metaphor, we talk about our desire for collective liberation in various spheres as well as for our personal lives. “This year I am grateful to have come out of the Mitzrayim of chemotherapy”. Very often in American practice we sing African-American spirituals to emphasize that struggles for freedom continue to this day (also, they’re bangers). Shavuot is entirely about the Torah. And cheesecake. Sukkot is a time to relax after the intensity of the High Holidays. Hannukah is a celebration of religious freedom, which is somewhat problematic in that the Maccabees were not actually liberal pluralists but look, latkes! The typical American liberal congregation probably has some sort of Zionist content in its observations of Passover and Chanukah, but it’s not the primary focus. Not so much Shavuot or Sukkot. But there is a LOT of variation and many communities, as DTS testifies, are all Israel all the time. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/534 "2026-09-04T04:00:26Z")
Is there or is not there a distinctly Israeli ethnic identity that has nothing to do with religion at all, one that would be shared by most any resident of Tel-Aviv or at-Tayibe but alien to American Jews? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615.md?page=27)