# New discussion thread for Israel/Gaza/West Bank (Hijacks tolerated) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war, hijacks-tolerated\ **Created:** [July 12, 2026, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615 "2026-07-12T00:17:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2026, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/695 "2026-10-13T13:08:29Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Some Jews can be indigenous to Palestine while others can be colonizers. Where do you think Ashkenazi Jews are indigenous to, if not Israel? > [@MrDibble](#): > > “Zionism is a colonizing adventure”. I wonder who said that…OK, I don’t wonder, it was this guy: I wonder if the context and usage of the term “colonialism” changed over the last 100 plus years? OK, I don’t wonder, obviously it did. > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > My great grandfather came here from Germany over one hundred years ago, do I have German indigenousness? I don’t know, were you raised German in a German community where every year you celebrated German holidays based around the seasons and history of Germany, eating feasts where you cheer “Next Year in Berlin”? Or did your family assimilate into American culture pretty much completely? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2026, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/696 "2026-10-13T13:20:00Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I don’t know, were you raised German in a German community where every year you celebrated German holidays based around the seasons and history of Germany, eating feasts where you cheer “Next Year in Berlin”? Or did your family assimilate into American culture pretty much completely? So Jews who assimilated into various communities are _not_ indigenous to Israel? What about the children of non-assimilated Jews who reject their parents’ traditions? I’ve never heard of a definition of indigenousness that depends on day-to-day customs. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2026, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/697 "2026-10-13T13:37:22Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Where do you think Ashkenazi Jews are indigenous to, if not Israel? Europe. That’s _why_ they’re Ashkenazim and not one of the other Jewish ethnicities. > [@Babale](#): > > OK, I don’t wonder, obviously it did. What Jabotinsky wrote about in _The Iron Wall_ is no different from what I’d call colonialism today. How do _you_ consider it to differ, since it’s so “obvious”? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2026, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/698 "2026-10-13T14:11:26Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Europe. That’s _why_ they’re Ashkenazim and not one of the other Jewish ethnicities. Europeans have made it _exceedingly_ clear that we are not European. And Arabs have made it _exceedingly_ clear that Mizrachi Jews aren’t Arab. > [@MrDibble](#): > > How do _you_ consider it to differ, since it’s so “obvious”? It’s not a colony of anyone. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2026, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/699 "2026-10-13T14:30:51Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Europeans have made it _exceedingly_ clear that we are not European. That’s got zip to do with where the ethnicity originates, though. > [@Babale](#): > > It’s not a colony of anyone. The immigrants just poofed in from Neverland? That’s like saying the [Boer Republics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boer_republics) weren’t colonial either. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2026, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/700 "2026-10-13T14:44:55Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The immigrants just poofed in from Neverland? Is that what “They weren’t a colony of anyone” means to you? You’re either a colonist or you magically poof in from Neverland, those are the only options? > [@MrDibble](#): > > That’s like saying the [Boer Republics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boer_republics) weren’t colonial either. The Boer Republics weren’t really colonies, any more than the United States is a colony. But they both originated from colonies (the American Thirteen Colonies and the Dutch Cape Colony). They were breakaway states from the British Cape Colony, which was a British colony that the British took from the Dutch, who were indeed Colonists, on behalf of the United Provinces. Once the Boer Republics, or the United States, became independent, they were no longer colonies of anyone else, that’s correct. Meanwhile, Israel was never a colony of anyone. Syria (which at the time encompassed Syria, Israel, Lebanon, the Palestinian Territories, and Jordan) was an Ottoman colony; the British Mandate was a British colony; but Israel was never a colony of anyone. > [@MrDibble](#): > > That’s got zip to do with where the ethnicity originates, though. It has everything to do with where a culture’s homeland is. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2026, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/701 "2026-10-13T15:00:48Z")
By the way, if Ashkenazi Jews are indigenous to Europe (despite not considering themselves European or being considered European by others) because Ashkenazi Culture originated in Europe, I guess that makes Boers indigenous to Africa, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2026, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/702 "2026-10-13T15:17:56Z")
So, you’ve done a background check on all the Jewish “settlers” and determined that they are all indigenous? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2026, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/703 "2026-10-13T15:33:48Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Is that what “They weren’t a colony of anyone” means to you? It means they came from somewhere else. So yes, they were a colony of someone (someones). > [@Babale](#): > > The Boer Republics weren’t really colonies, Yes, they were. > [@Babale](#): > > any more than the United States is a colony Yes, it is. > [@Babale](#): > > Once the Boer Republics, or the United States, became independent, they were no longer colonies of anyone else Semantics. > [@Babale](#): > > Meanwhile, Israel was never a colony of anyone. It was a colony of an organized group of mostly Europeans. That they were not a state doesn’t signify, any more than East India Company colonies or the Congo Free State weren’t colonies just because they weren’t state-run. > [@Babale](#): > > It has everything to do with where a culture’s homeland is. Homeland is not the same as origin. > [@Babale](#): > > By the way, if Ashkenazi Jews are indigenous to Europe (despite not considering themselves European or being considered European by others) because Ashkenazi Culture originated in Europe, I guess that makes Boers indigenous to Africa, eh? Boers spoke a Germanic language (the same language family as a certain Jewish ethnicity speaks), wore clothes that originated in Europe, still retained cultural ties to European countries. They were as European as the Ashkenazim. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2026, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/704 "2026-10-13T15:52:39Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > I wonder if the Israeli military actually believed their scorched-earth tactics would dislodge Hamas, or some such miscalculation? Following that line of thought (for the sake of it ignoring the “the intent absolutely is and was genocide all along” replies), any miscalculation, in tactical terms, was of how resilient was Hamas both as an insurgent opponent AND as the dictatorial gang acting as Gaza’s government. The classic “hit them brutally enough and they’ll just disintegrate” mistake. Which considering the Israeli military leaders are generally educated and NOT stupid, would be an odd mistake to make… ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2026, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/705 "2026-10-13T15:58:31Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It means they came from somewhere else. So yes, they were a colony of someone (someones). “Colony” and " Came from somewhere else" are not synonymous. And Ashkenazi Jews came to Europe from the Middle East; the only people who deny this are Khazar Hypothesis antisemites. > [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > The Boer Republics weren’t really colonies, > > Yes, they were. Of who? > [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > any more than the United States is a colony > > Yes, it is. Of who? > [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > Once the Boer Republics, or the United States, became independent, they were no longer colonies of anyone else > > Semantics. The definition of a term is indeed semantics, as in, pertaining to the philosophical study of meaning in language. > [@MrDibble](#): > > It was a colony of an organized group of mostly Europeans. That they were not a state doesn’t signify, any more than East India Company colonies or the Congo Free State weren’t colonies just because they weren’t state-run. The East India Company had a government charter and monopoly on all trade east of the Cape of Good Hope; the Congo Free State was owned by the King of Belgium. They were both clearly and obviously appadenges of their colonial government. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Boers spoke a Germanic language (the same language family as a certain Jewish ethnicity speaks), wore clothes that originated in Europe, still retained cultural ties to European countries. They were as European as the Ashkenazim. What do any of these things have to do with indigenousness? Do you think indigenousness is about _vibes_? _Aesthetic_? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2026, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/706 "2026-10-13T16:09:35Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > “Colony” and " Came from somewhere else" are not synonymous. Didn’t say they were. Immigrants aren’t colonists, for instance. > [@Babale](#): > > And Ashkenazi Jews came to Europe from the Middle East; No. _Jews_ came to Europe from the Middle East. _Ashkenazi_ Jews developed in Europe. > [@Babale](#): > > the only people who deny this are Khazar Hypothesis antisemites. Naah. I deny it, and I know the KH is bunk. > [@Babale](#): > > Of who? Europeeans. > [@Babale](#): > > Of who? ibid. > [@Babale](#): > > he definition of a term is indeed semantics So is playing definitional games. > [@Babale](#): > > The East India Company had a government charter and monopoly on all trade east of the Cape of Good Hope But were not the British or Dutch state (there being more than one EIC). > [@Babale](#): > > the Congo Free State was owned by the King of Belgium. In his private capacity. > [@Babale](#): > > They were both clearly and obviously appadenges of their colonial government. Naah. In fact, the relationship was often the other way (or adversarial) > [@Babale](#): > > What do any of these things have to do with indigenousness? Sorry, what does the origin of your ethnicity have to do with your indigeneity? Is that a serious question? > [@Babale](#): > > Do you think indigenousness is about _vibes_? _Aesthetic_? No, I think it’s about your origin, and the pointers to that origin. Boers had clear pointers to their European origin. So did Ashkenazim. That the latter originated out of a mixture of Levantine and European precursors doesn’t mean they didn’t originate where they did. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2026, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/707 "2026-10-13T16:15:44Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Sorry, what does the origin of your ethnicity have to do with your indigeneity? Is that a serious question? You said: > [@MrDibble](#): > > Boers spoke a Germanic language (the same language family as a certain Jewish ethnicity speaks), wore clothes that originated in Europe, still retained cultural ties to European countries. None of those are about your _origin_. > [@MrDibble](#): > > So did Ashkenazim. Not really. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2026, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/708 "2026-10-13T16:17:48Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > None of those are about your _origin_. Of course they are. > [@Babale](#): > > Not really. Only their language and their genetics. Nothing to see here… ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2026, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/709 "2026-10-13T16:21:46Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Of course they are. Got it, so if an African person wears a GAP shirt and speaks English, they are no longer indigenous. Understood. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Only their language and their genetics. Nothing to see here… _Genetics_? I never thought I’d see Blood and Soil logic from a self described Anarchist, but I guess the horseshoe IS more of a circle nowadays. But if that is what you’re into, you should know that [genetic testing does show that Ashkenazi Jews come from the Middle East too.](https://hms.harvard.edu/news/ancient-dna-provides-new-insights-ashkenazi-jewish-history) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2026, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/710 "2026-10-13T20:38:46Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Understood. Clearly not at all. > [@Babale](#): > > _Genetics_? I never thought I’d see Blood and Soil logic Nothing “Blood and Soil” about noting what the data shows about a group’s geographical origins. It’s not advocating any necessary enduring ties thereafter. Certainly not any ownership of, or mystical connection to, that origin place. Of course, you do know who _were_ really into actual _Blut und Boden_ thinking, right? Say it with me: ~~Nazis~~ [Zionists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_and_soil#Zionism). Oh, OK, Nazis too. As the Zionists well knew. > [@Hayim Nahman Bialik](#): > > I too, like Hitler, believe in the power of blood. > [@Babale](#): > > you should know that [genetic testing does show that Ashkenazi Jews come from the Middle East too.](https://hms.harvard.edu/news/ancient-dna-provides-new-insights-ashkenazi-jewish-history) Sure. There _too_. In _addition_ to Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2026, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/711 "2026-10-13T20:46:45Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Sure. There _too_. In _addition_ to Europe. Man, the horseshoe really _is_ a circle. Now you’re doing One Drop Rule? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2026, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/712 "2026-10-13T20:57:47Z")
What are you even on about? How you got One Drop Rule from anything I’ve posted is beyond me. There’s a _lot_ more European in the Ashenazim pool than a single drop. _Very_ roughly 50/50 when you look at [all the studies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews#Genetics). And the Errfut study doesn’t counter that. At all. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2026, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/713 "2026-10-13T21:01:04Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > _Very_ roughly 50/50 when you look at [all the studies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews#Genetics). In other words, they’re just as Middle Eastern as they are European, but to you they’re European colonizers? Sounds like the same one drop logic that leads to Americans concluding that Obama is Black. But again, this obsession with Blood and Soil is quite strange. I’d say what matters is _cultures_, not this race realist weirdness. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2026, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/714 "2026-10-13T21:08:35Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > In other words, they’re just as Middle Eastern as they are European, but to you they’re European colonizers? Because Europe was where they mingled. If they’d been mingled at, and were coming from, Timbuktu, they’d be African colonizers instead. > [@Babale](#): > > Sounds like the same one drop logic that leads to Americans concluding that Obama is Black. Obama _is_ Black - because he identifies as Black himself. > [@Babale](#): > > But again, this obsession with Blood and Soil is quite strange. The irony, it burns. > [@Babale](#): > > I’d say what matters is _cultures_, You mean like the Germanic-speaking European culture of Ashkenazi Jews? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615.md?page=36)