# New discussion thread for Israel/Gaza/West Bank (Hijacks tolerated) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war, hijacks-tolerated\ **Created:** [July 12, 2026, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615 "2026-07-12T00:17:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2026, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/775 "2026-10-14T13:10:37Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > or apartheid > > If they converted, as they clearly did, they wouldn’t be subject to dhimmitude, any way. So why would it come up? OK now you’re not even trying. If religious based apartheid successfully forces people to convert then there’s no more apartheid? That’s cute. What you’re whitewashing is that these people converted to Islam because _the Caliphates successfully forced people to convert_. _Hey, if the Native American kids stopped speaking their native language, the Catholic Church stopped beating them, so clearly, no discrimination was going on_ > [@MrDibble](#): > > That’s why Rome continued to have synagogues and a substantial free Jewish population _after_ 70 AD, because the Romans just hated them so much… So now we’re not just whitewashing the Caliphates but also the Romans? Nice. > [@MrDibble](#): > > So _many_ rebellions leading to population displacement, I was picking the first major one. It continued to have them _after_ 136 CE, as well. It’s quite telling that you brush off what the Romans did to the Jews as “a rebellion leading to population displacement”. So in other words, the Romans tried to remove the Jewish population of Israel “in whole or in part”? Hmmm… And they _actually did it_, too, unlike a different conflict you’ve been going on about for years where you _claim_ a “population displacement” is desired despite it never materializing… Interesting… > [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > Anti-semitism has a long and tragic history in Christian Europe (Hey, @Babale, white people blaming going on, you should pounce on that). It’s absolutely true that anti-semitism has a long and tragic history in Christian Europe (and pre-Christian Europe, despite MrDibble trying to whitewash Roman treatment of Jews). What are you expecting me to pounce on exactly? The problem with MrDibble is that he whitewashed antisemitism done by people who _aren’t_ European. > [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > Yet there is, to my knowledge, no movement to grant the Romani a homeland in Punjab. The Romani absolutely deserve self determination as well. > [@MrDibble](#): > > What if they were a _mix_? What if they _were_? It’s 2026, no one gives a shit about a little _race mixing_ except racists like David Duke or Darializa Avila Chevalier. > [@Smapti](#): > > I guess I’m just some sort of stateless bastard, then. I think the term people who think this way about Jews use is “rootless cosmopolitan”. You know, people who engage in _race mixing_ and _adopting cultural traditions from their neighbors_. Horrible stuff, that. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2026, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/776 "2026-10-14T13:26:56Z")
> [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > You know of course that you will never convince him of anything, as he constantly dismisses cites, changes position and goal posts, accuses any opponent of being [insert Nazi, Self-Hating Jew, anti-semite, anti-zionist etc.] He sits in SoCal (AIUI) and claims to know the inner workings of everything that happens in Israel. That’s quite a funny post. I’m not the one who has been throwing the Nazi term around in this conversation; that would be MrDibble. I’m not the one dismissing cites I don’t like with a “Naaaah”. I’m not the one who lives in a country that has fuck all to do with this conflict while claiming to speak authoritatively about it. More projection than a megaplex is going on here. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2026, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/777 "2026-10-14T13:29:15Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Palestinians, who _were_ descended from Levantine Arabs but are now Palestinian. > [@Babale](#): > > Much like Palestinian, which is an ethnic group whose name derives from the Peleshet, a word that means “to raid” and once described an entirely different ethnic group. So, are they Arabs (i.e. from the Arabian peninsula) or “sea peoples,” i.e. those that supposedly raided the levant at about 1200 BCE? Or are they simply Canaanites, as are most of the other groups describing themselves as distinct people in order to boost their own tribe and justify smashing their neighbor’s heads? > [@Babale](#): > > So in other words, the Romans tried to remove the Jewish population of Israel “in whole or in part”? Hmmm… And they _actually did it_, too, In part or in whole? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2026, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/778 "2026-10-14T13:33:34Z")
> [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > So, are they Arabs (i.e. from the Arabian peninsula) or “sea peoples,” i.e. those that supposedly raided the levant at about 1200 BCE? Huh? What do the Sea People have to do with this? That’s where the NAME Palestine comes from, via the “rename your land after your extinct historical enemies” thing the Romans did that @Smapti mentioned. But the Philistines were long gone by the time that Alexander conquered the region. Palestinians are Arabs. Arabs today aren’t the same as, say, Nabatean tribesmen; the Arab empires ruled over most of the MENA and facilitated admixture and migration (along with the aforementioned forced conversions). Arab hasn’t just meant “people from the specific Arabian peninsula” since the Arab armies exploded outwards in 700 AD. > [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > Or are they simply Canaanites, as are most of the other groups describing themselves as distinct people in order to boost their own tribe and justify smashing their neighbor’s heads? I can’t really parse this at all. What are you asking? Canaanites are extinct, like most other groups from that time and place. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2026, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/779 "2026-10-14T14:37:36Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I can’t really parse this at all. What are you asking? The pre BCE Philistines were probably partly descendants of the Sea Peoples, the raiders then that you mentioned upthread. I don’t know what purpose identifying them as raiders has, but then I cannot know your reasoning. The Judeans before the Babylonian exile and most probably after, were mountain people. The Philistines had the coastal area (Gaza). I say that they probably were mounytain people after the exile, since only the elites were sent off. Conquerors, not only in the levant but elsewhere as well, had no interest in uprooting the people working the land, providing food and labor. Which brings me to the Canaanites, who are no more of course. But the Canaanite people of Judea became the Jews, The Canaanites of Samaria became the Samaritans ASF. There was never a conquest from Egypt, only fighting and mayhem between Canaanite tribes tribes and then the LBAC happened and the whole area fell into a historical abyss with a lot less records for the ensuing few hundrad years. What emerged at the other end were tribes eager to enhance their glorious past and origins, (as with Abram not being native (indigenous even) in the levant but is described as coming from Ur). Eric Cline’s books on the LBAC are very illuminating, especially the parts where he describes the Ugarit clay tablets. They leave little room for most of the Tanakh narratives. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2026, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/780 "2026-10-14T14:42:12Z")
Pro-tip: when your conversation about the Israel/Gaza conflict involves the term “Canaanites”, it has become stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2026, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/781 "2026-10-14T14:45:56Z")
> [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > The pre BCE Philistines were probably partly descendants of the Sea Peoples, the raiders then that you mentioned upthread. The pre BCE Philistines weren’t “partly descendants of the Sea Peoples”, they _were_ a specific group of Sea People called the Peleshet who most likely came from islands in the Aegean Sea, fought a war with Egypt, and settled in what today is Gaza. This is backed up by both Egyptian records and the archeological record. > [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > I don’t know what purpose identifying them as raiders has, but then I cannot know your reasoning. Huh? I was pointing out that the etymology of the word Peleshet is “Raider”, because MrDibble tried to claim that an ethnic group cannot be an ethnic group if its name etymologically derives from a profession. > [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > They leave little room for most of the Tanakh narratives. Who are you shadow boxing with? No one has brought up the Tanakh narrative. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2026, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/782 "2026-10-14T14:57:49Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > How do you imagine that bit changes anything? Shows they originated in the Netherlands, not Africa. > [@Babale](#): > > The point is that now that they’ve been there for hundreds of years they are their own unique thing. Sure. A unique thing with European origin. > [@Babale](#): > > Yeah, just like someone can be a New Englander, or a Southerner. Or an Italian, or a Korean… > [@Babale](#): > > But the idea that this refers to an _ethnic group_ is preposterous. Ethic groups are never associated with particular regions? _That’s_ an argument you want to make? > [@Babale](#): > > Also, I think it’s quite telling that you want to say that Palestinians were their own ethnic group hundreds of years ago, but refuse to acknowledge that Afrikaners are their own ethnic group now. Afrikaners are their own ethnic group. Just one that originates in Europe. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2026, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/783 "2026-10-14T14:59:44Z")
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**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2026, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/784 "2026-10-14T15:02:15Z")
**Moderating** : While hijacks are allowed, > [@Babale](#): > > Your mask is slipping. Falls into personal attack. Not allowed. Stop it. Attack or challenge the content of the post and not the poster. This is not the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2026, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/785 "2026-10-14T15:02:29Z")
---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2026, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/786 "2026-10-14T15:04:04Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Shows they originated in the Netherlands, not Africa. They became Afrikaners in the Netherlands? > [@MrDibble](#): > > Or an Italian, or a Korean… No, those are polities with an associated ethnic group. Unlike New England, the Bay Area, or the part of 10th century Syria that was on rare occasion referred to as “Falastin”. There’s an ethnic group associated with that area _today_, but there certainly was not in the 10th century. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Ethic groups are never associated with particular regions? _That’s_ an argument you want to make? That’s not the argument I made, is it? > [@MrDibble](#): > > Afrikaners are their own ethnic group. Just one that originates in Europe. There were Afrikaners in Europe? Afrikaners quite obviously originated as a divergent group _in Africa_ after they arrived there from the Netherlands. That their ancestors came from Europe doesn’t change the fact that their origin _as a distinct group_ was in fact in Africa. If groups are whatever their ancestors came from no matter where the group itself originated than I guess we are all from the Great Rift Valley. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2026, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/787 "2026-10-14T15:08:15Z")
Moderating: Also this: > [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > @MrDibble I don’t know if you enjoy trading barbs with @Babale. You know of course that you will never convince him of anything, as he constantly dismisses cites, changes position and goal posts, accuses any opponent of being [insert Nazi, Self-Hating Jew, anti-semite, anti-zionist etc.] He sits in SoCal (AIUI) and claims to know the inner workings of everything that happens in Israel. > I realize that your writing is not for his benefit, but for other readers, but I have to say that I admire your tenacity. Falls into personal attack. Not allowed. Stop it. Attack or challenge the content of the post and not the poster. This is not the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2026, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/788 "2026-10-14T15:28:18Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > OK now you’re not even trying. > > If religious based apartheid successfully forces people to convert then there’s no more apartheid? How can there be apartheid if the condition on which it’s based no longer exists? > [@Babale](#): > > What you’re whitewashing is that these people converted to Islam because _the Caliphates successfully forced people to convert_. I certainly acknowledge that that’s what happened to some of them. Probably[not as many](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spread_of_Islam#Character_of_conversion) as you seem to think. Does the fact that it was sometimes forced somehow negate anything about their descendants? > [@Babale](#): > > So now we’re not just whitewashing the Caliphates but also the Romans? The existence of substantial populations outside oppression in no way constitutes “whitewashing”, any more than pointing to the existence of free Blacks in the USA constitutes whitewashing of slavery. Especially if you were doing it to counter some narrative that _every_ Black was a slave. > [@Babale](#): > > So in other words, the Romans tried to remove the Jewish population of Israel “in whole or in part”? Yes, they absolutely did a genocide in Judea. Nobody thinks the Romans were nice people. But they certainly knew how to kill. Just because other groups are less efficient at it than the Romans doesn’t mean they _aren’t_ genocidaires. That’s some “but the Nazis didn’t kill _all_ the Jews” fallaciousness right there. > [@Babale](#): > > The problem with MrDibble is that he whitewashed antisemitism done by people who _aren’t_ European. Naah. > [@Babale](#): > > The Romani absolutely deserve self determination as well. In Punjab? > [@Babale](#): > > What if they _were_? It’s 2026, no one gives a shit about a little _race mixing_ _Cultural_ mixing. Smapti was saying their cultural practices are all from one side, I’m pointing out that ain’t so. > [@Babale](#): > > I’m not the one who has been throwing the Nazi term around in this conversation; that would be MrDibble. Not at anyone in this thread. Only in reference to certain historical Zionists. And actual Nazis as well. > [@Babale](#): > > They became Afrikaners in the Netherlands? They left Europe, lived in the Cape for a bit, then trekked inland. At some point they gave themselves the _name_ Afrikaners (well, more properly, stole it from _actual_ indigenes), but that’s not the same as their origin. Or do the Sinti originate in Germany, not India, because that’s where they got their name? > [@Babale](#): > > I’m not the one who lives in a country that has fuck all to do with this conflict Hey, now, we do have that court case… > [@Babale](#): > > while claiming to speak authoritatively about it My only claim is to back up what I say with data. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2026, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/789 "2026-10-14T22:03:43Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > How can there be apartheid if the condition on which it’s based no longer exists? “Good news, everyone! Now that we’ve declared the Bantustans independent countries and closed the borders, apartheid is over!” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2026, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/790 "2026-10-15T04:41:48Z")
“Pity about all those Blacks still living in our country. And the Coloureds and Indians…” I’m not saying _dhimmi_ apartheid didn’t still exist in the Caliphate. Not everyone converted (nor did the Caliphate really _want_ them to - gotta keep that _jizya_ rolling in). I’m saying after conversion _the ones who converted_ were no longer subject to it. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2026, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/791 "2026-10-15T05:59:07Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I’m saying after conversion _the ones who converted_ were no longer subject to it. Because they were successfully ethnically cleansed, converted to Islam, and Arabized. If Russia conquered Ukraine and successfully Russified the population over a generation to the point that Ukranians were extinct outside whatever number of refugees had left the country, it wouldn’t be hunky-dory just because you could still find Ukranian genetic markers in the Russified population that has equal rights to other Russians. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2026, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/792 "2026-10-15T06:15:39Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Because they were successfully ethnically cleansed, converted to Islam, and Arabized. Converted (both voluntarily and not) and Arabized, with you. Not so much on the ethnic cleansing, since they were never displaced. And? No-one’s said it’s “hunky-dory”. It is, however, what actually happened. Are you saying in your analogy the Russified Ukrainian remnant in Ukraine is now free to be displaced? Have no _connection_ to their homeland? Are in some way _tainted_ by giving in and not running away and keeping the faith? What, exactly, is your point? Remember - the analogy here is to Palestinians, so what, exactly, are you saying in relation to them? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2026, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/793 "2026-10-15T06:24:25Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Are you saying in your analogy the Russified Ukrainian remnant in Ukraine is now free to be displaced? Have no _connection_ to their homeland? Are in some way _tainted_ by giving in and not running away and keeping the faith? What, exactly, is your point? Remember - the analogy here is to Palestinians, so what, exactly, are you saying in relation to them? Since I have been very clear that I believe that Palestinians have a right to live on the land, this is quite a strange question. I’m not the one insisting the people don’t have a connection to the land. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2026, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615/794 "2026-10-15T06:47:25Z")
Doesn’t answer my question - what’s your point? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discussion-thread-for-israel-gaza-west-bank-hijacks-tolerated/1031615.md?page=40)