# New Discworld book - MAKING MONEY **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 26, 2007, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discworld-book-making-money/405583 "2007-05-26T06:44:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2007, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discworld-book-making-money/405583/21 "2007-05-28T01:32:46Z")
Exactly. The mint is as moribund as the Post Office **was**. That’s why Vetenari is wanting to get it up and running again. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_C](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Captain\_C](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_C)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2007, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discworld-book-making-money/405583/22 "2007-05-28T23:49:20Z")
As a sort of aside to this which I think the people in this thread would be able to answer: I am trying to find a discworld quote. The basic idea expressed is that Ankh-Morpork didn’t need a large standing army, because if any other country ever invaded, the city would just call in its debts from the offending country. This was deterent enough to stave off invasion quite frequently. I think the same paragraph mentions how most of any invading army’s weapons would also have been made in Ankh-Morpork. Or something to that affect. I thought it might be in Going Postal, but I suppose Thud would also be a possibility. Anyone? ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discworld-book-making-money/405583/23 "2007-05-29T00:22:31Z")
[QUOTE=neorxnawange] Doh! I completely forgot. One can learn a lot from Vetinari. [/QUOTE] … I loved Moist’s daring escape working for days on end to remove a brick… only to find another brick behind it. And learning that going through the grille would only trap you as well. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discworld-book-making-money/405583/24 "2007-05-29T00:35:36Z")
That line, which may be revisited, is much earlier than that. Possibly Rincewind era. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discworld-book-making-money/405583/25 "2007-05-29T00:42:16Z")
The quote is actually from _Feet of Clay_. > [@Feet of Clay](#): > > Thousands of years ago the old [Ankh-Morpork] empire had enforced the Pax Morporkia, which had said to the world: “Do not fight, or we will kill you.” The Pax had arisen again, but this time it said: “If you fight, we’ll call in your mortgages. And incidentally, that’s my pike you’re poinging at me. I paid for that shield you’re holding. And take my helmet off when you speak to me, you horrible little debtor.” ---
**Author:** ![MacSpon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@MacSpon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacSpon)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discworld-book-making-money/405583/26 "2007-05-29T00:44:54Z")
[QUOTE=Captain\_C] As a sort of aside to this which I think the people in this thread would be able to answer: I am trying to find a discworld quote. The basic idea expressed is that Ankh-Morpork didn’t need a large standing army, because if any other country ever invaded, the city would just call in its debts from the offending country. This was deterent enough to stave off invasion quite frequently. I think the same paragraph mentions how most of any invading army’s weapons would also have been made in Ankh-Morpork. Or something to that affect. I thought it might be in Going Postal, but I suppose Thud would also be a possibility. Anyone? [/QUOTE] Sounds more like something out of **Jingo**. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_C](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Captain\_C](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_C)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discworld-book-making-money/405583/27 "2007-05-29T01:23:27Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] The quote is actually from _Feet of Clay_. [/QUOTE] Bringo. Thanks! But back on topic, yay for a sequal to _Going Postal_. That was my 3rd favorite book, right behind a first-place tie of \*Small Gods \* and _Night Watch_. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discworld-book-making-money/405583/28 "2007-05-29T01:27:09Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] Exactly. The mint is as moribund as the Post Office **was**. That’s why Vetenari is wanting to get it up and running again. [/QUOTE] I guess what I really meant was, what CAN be done regarding the money situation in Ankh-Morpork? Coins don’t seem to be an option, neither do notes, and in any event the city has somehow been getting along all this time. Maybe Ankh-Morpork has a perpetual balance of trade problem but that’s not within the mint’s purvue. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discworld-book-making-money/405583/29 "2007-05-29T01:37:37Z")
[QUOTE=Lumpy] I guess what I really meant was, what CAN be done regarding the money situation in Ankh-Morpork? Coins don’t seem to be an option, neither do notes, and in any event the city has somehow been getting along all this time. Maybe Ankh-Morpork has a perpetual balance of trade problem but that’s not within the mint’s purvue. [/QUOTE] But notes **are** an option. At the end of _Going Postal,_ Vetinari explains to Gilt (or to von Lipwig, I’m not sure) that with the increasing use of postage stamps as functional currency (a stamp can change hands as many as ten times before it’s attached to a letter), “People are getting away from the idea that money has to be shiny.” That’s where he sees new potential for the mint. IOW, he wants to introduce paper money, like they’ve got in the Agatean Empire. Of course, that brings its own potential pitfalls, and it will be interesting to see what Pterry does with them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discworld-book-making-money/405583/30 "2007-05-29T01:43:47Z")
[QUOTE=Just Some Guy] A real problem that has occurred in the series, I think, is that the setting has become just too refined. Pratchett can’t set everything back to the status quo in every book, but at the same time things might have progressed a little too far. [/QUOTE] When the series started out – with _The Light Fantastic_ and _The Colour of Magic_ – the Discworld was a lot like Conan’s Hyborian Age; now it’s more like 18th-Century Europe. I remember when Vetinari says, “Yes, I think it’s the arena for you, Rincewind.” (Unless he serves as Twoflowers’ tour guide.) Implying something like a Roman arena, where condemned criminals are fed to hungry predators. Last we ever heard of that! ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discworld-book-making-money/405583/31 "2007-05-29T01:46:48Z")
Yeh but stamps are usually too low in denomination to be worth a counterfeiter’s efforts, plus all the stamp collectors out there comprise in effect a volunteer army of counterfeit detectors. You could probably do a cost-effectiveness study that would determine how valuable a note has to be before it’ll be counterfeited in large numbers. Oh heck, I’ll just read the book and find out. Knowing how things are run in Ankh-Morpork, they’ll probably just put out a handful of notes and let the counterfeiters be the city’s engraving bureau. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discworld-book-making-money/405583/32 "2007-05-29T01:54:19Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > At the risk of spoilers, what mint? I thought it was established that Ankh-Morpork ran mostly on account ledgers, with very little actual gold at all (see **Men at Arms** ), and that in a city where brass fittings have a lifetime of hours, even the coins were clipped. They have **coins** – the “Ankh-Morpork dollar” – there’s just not very much **gold** in them – as was made clear very early in _The Colour of Magic._ That’s why Twoflowers’ Agatean _rhinu_ are worth so much – they’re solid gold. > [@Lumpy](#): > > And Rincewind foresaw what would happen if the Agatean concept of paper notes was ever tried in a city full of skilled forgers. ( **Interesting Times** ) That’s why it makes sense to put the project under someone like von Lipwig, who knows all the tricks when it comes to forgery. He invented the pre-printed postage stamp precisely because, before that, the Post Office showed postage had been paid on a letter by applying a rubber ink-stamp in the office, and “Any kid with half a potato could forge this!” ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discworld-book-making-money/405583/33 "2007-05-29T01:54:53Z")
[QUOTE=Lumpy] Oh heck, I’ll just read the book and find out. Knowing how things are run in Ankh-Morpork, they’ll probably just put out a handful of notes and let the counterfeiters be the city’s engraving bureau. [/QUOTE] Or they’ll hire the counterfeiters directly. It definitely seems as if Mr. Lipwig might have some acquaintances of that persuasion (as well as other unsavory persuasions). I doubt that Ankh-Morpork would cavil at small-time counterfeiters anyway. The only reason the Trunk embezzlers got into trouble was because of the SCALE of their larceny. You kind of get the feeling that petty larceny is an export commodity for Morporkians, in the same way that musical touring companies are an export commodity for New Yorkers… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discworld-book-making-money/405583/34 "2007-05-29T01:58:28Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] Or they’ll hire the counterfeiters directly. It definitely seems as if Mr. Lipwig might have some acquaintances of that persuasion (as well as other unsavory persuasions). I doubt that Ankh-Morpork would cavil at small-time counterfeiters anyway. The only reason the Trunk embezzlers got into trouble was because of the SCALE of their larceny. You kind of get the feeling that petty larceny is an export commodity for Morporkians, in the same way that musical touring companies are an export commodity for New Yorkers… [/QUOTE] Knowing Vetinari, he would find some way to estimate the number of counterfeit dollars produced in a year, and simply take that figure into account in his money-supply policy. It’s similar to his policy of holding down the crime rate by licensing the Thieves’ Guild. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_C](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Captain\_C](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_C)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discworld-book-making-money/405583/35 "2007-05-29T04:07:55Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I remember when Vetinari says, “Yes, I think it’s the arena for you, Rincewind.” (Unless he serves as Twoflowers’ tour guide.) [/QUOTE] /nitpick It is generally assumed that it was the Patrician Snapcase during _The Color of Magic_. The book always refers to the character as “the Patrician”. It is not known exactly what year Vetinari came to power and Snapcase was pushed out, but this dialog is definitely not that of the skilled politician Vetinari, and is more in the bully-style of Snapcase. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discworld-book-making-money/405583/36 "2007-05-29T04:18:40Z")
[QUOTE=Captain\_C] /nitpick It is generally assumed that it was the Patrician Snapcase during _The Color of Magic_. The book always refers to the character as “the Patrician”. It is not known exactly what year Vetinari came to power and Snapcase was pushed out, but this dialog is definitely not that of the skilled politician Vetinari, and is more in the bully-style of Snapcase. [/QUOTE] Plus I believe Color of Magic describes the Patrician as grossly fat, which Vetinari certainly isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discworld-book-making-money/405583/37 "2007-05-29T08:34:59Z")
Similarly the Patrician in _Mort_ throws large balls, one of which Death attends just to try to get some idea of what FUN is, whereas Vetinari never has any balls - there’s a popular song to that effect, in fact. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discworld-book-making-money/405583/38 "2007-05-29T08:42:41Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] Similarly the Patrician in _Mort_ throws large balls, one of which Death attends just to try to get some idea of what FUN is, whereas Vetinari never has any balls - there’s a popular song to that effect, in fact. 😉 [/QUOTE] Well, _Mort_ obviously takes place at least 25 years or so before the present time. ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discworld-book-making-money/405583/39 "2007-05-29T10:05:10Z")
[QUOTE=Captain\_C] /nitpick It is generally assumed that it was the Patrician Snapcase during _The Color of Magic_. The book always refers to the character as “the Patrician”. It is not known exactly what year Vetinari came to power and Snapcase was pushed out, but this dialog is definitely not that of the skilled politician Vetinari, and is more in the bully-style of Snapcase. [/QUOTE] From _The Annotated Pratchett File_ [lspace.org](http://www.lspace.org) > [@](#): > > An interesting consideration is just when Lord Vetinari became Patrician. Clearly this isn’t him (Vetinari eating crystallised jellyfish? – I don’t think so. Besides, Interesting Times makes it quite clear that Vetinari does not know who Rincewind is). > > However, Terry has always denied this interpretation: > > “I’m pretty certain that the same Patrician was in all the books. […] He’s clearly lost weight and got more austere. It must be the pressure. As for racehorses and so on – Vetinari is not the first Patrician, and no doubt the earlier ones, like Lord Snapcase, were often crazed, greedy and acquisitive. So he has inherited all sorts of things. But he doesn’t change anything without a reason.” > > When the people on afp were not immediately prepared to take his word for this (after all, what does he know – he’s only the author…), Terry conceded: > > “ **How about: maybe he was Vetinari, but written by a more stupid writer?** ” I prefer the _Snapcase_ theory, myself (to be fair, maybe Terry himself has accepted this alternative past. Certainly _Night Watch_ seems to reflect this). And it makes the timelines fit better 😉 Si ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discworld-book-making-money/405583/40 "2007-05-29T11:34:33Z")
[QUOTE=Alessan] Well, _Mort_ obviously takes place at least 25 years or so before the present time. [/QUOTE] Sure. Mort himself has had time to live out his remaining 15-16 years, and Susan has lived several years past that (the death of Mort and Ysabell was recent history in _Soul Music_ and rather further in the past in _Hogfather_ and _Thief of Time_). Rincewind was obviously an incompetent young wizard in the first book and is now an incompetent middle-aged wizard. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discworld-book-making-money/405583.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-discworld-book-making-money/405583.md?page=3)